SGOTM 14 - Kakumeika

So I think Trojan Horse is the place to be building missionaries. I'm not convinced we'll be in Organized Religion long enough to show a profit - we only show a profit in cities that already have Taoism that are building buildings, and only in those cities can we build Tao missionaries with or without needing a Tao monastery.

We get a free switch to organized religion when we switch back to slavery. I assume you meant Stone City and not Trojan Horse since Trojan Horse is the city we gifted away.
I think Organized religion is worth it and a whip of a forge in Washington under organized religion is worth it even if it is our cottaged capital. The great engineer is important for our long term goals and a fast forge is very nice and probably pays back at least as well as a grass cottage. Washington grows quickly.

Stone city can whip a missionary, spread to washington for the whip of the forge. we probably can get another missionary out of the overflow in washington. We get a 2nd missionary out of stone city quickly from the overflow of the 1st missionary whip which spreads to GPFarm (which accelerates the NE there. I think organized religion is quite good for us and we can get several cities we need to be in our religion to that religion with organized religion quickly.

We do want Taoism in Trojan Horse for espionage, but I'm not sure that we get the espionage bonus without us running a state religion. I think the 15% bonus is for having our state religion in the target city. Is the 25% bonus for having the holy city of a religion present in the target city, or for having the holy city of our state religion present in the target city?

We only get the espionage bonus when we have a state religion and that state religion is in the target city and that religion is different than the AI's state religion.
If all of those are true we get 40%. If we don't have a state religion we get nothing.

I think we want to adopt Taoism T116 or T117 after we switch back to slavery and organized religion.
 
Should I stop playing?

It is your call.

The missionary spread decision can wait until T115 at least

The trades however need to be explored. What is possible and what have you done? If you want feedback it might be best to upload the save and wait for 10-15 minutes for feedback.

Some of the discussion about what should happen wasn't in your PPP because we discussed it after we learned details from your play.
 
So I think Trojan Horse is the place to be building missionaries. I'm not convinced we'd be in Organized Religion long enough to show a profit - we only show a profit in cities that already have Taoism that are building buildings, and only in those cities can we build Tao missionaries with or without needing a Tao monastery.

We no longer own Trojan Horse. Did you mean we should build Taoist Missionaries in our Holy City, Stone City?

Sun Tzu Wu
 
Another reason to go for a lighthouse in Silver City is that if we aren't running Caste, we can't actually run any merchants at all - no markets.

As I mentioned already, the galley there wasn't instead of a lighthouse it was before the lighthouse.

The lighthouse can be whipped after we switch to slavery, so not building the lighthouse first lost us 6-10 food for a galley several turns earlier. Assuming Tachy stuck with the galley build.
 
We get a free switch to organized religion when we switch back to slavery. I assume you meant Stone City and not Trojan Horse since Trojan Horse is the city we gifted away.

Yes Stone City.

The switch is free in the short term. However we do have the right to switch to Pacifism then "for free" instead. Or we could piggy-back Pacifism on the back of the switch to Bureaucracy... that sounds useful, actually.

I think Organized religion is worth it and a whip of a forge in Washington under organized religion is worth it even if it is our cottaged capital. The great engineer is important for our long term goals and a fast forge is very nice and probably pays back at least as well as a grass cottage. Washington grows quickly.

Stone city can whip a missionary, spread to washington for the whip of the forge. we probably can get another missionary out of the overflow in washington. We get a 2nd missionary out of stone city quickly from the overflow of the 1st missionary whip which spreads to GPFarm (which accelerates the NE there. I think organized religion is quite good for us and we can get several cities we need to be in our religion to that religion with organized religion quickly.

Seems like a reasonable plan if we're happy to whip a forge in Washington.

We only get the espionage bonus when we have a state religion and that state religion is in the target city and that religion is different than the AI's state religion.
If all of those are true we get 40%. If we don't have a state religion we get nothing.

The Tao holy city is worth something under some condition...
 
The Tao holy city is worth something under some condition...

Since we now have the holy city the bonus is 40% not 15%.
Without the holy city we would get 15% with a state religion different than the AI's, but that exists in the target city.
 
bcool, I am tweaking the reasearch so as to get Currency two turns earlier. mabraham won't like as I do (slider at 60%), but the benefit may be good. I will let the scaffolded(you may enhance them) tweaks and upload not so long. Of course, the tweaks are reversible.

Boni:
Get Currency two turns earlier,
Get Currency before fake Gandhi/Monty by two turns. Then trade Calendar+Currency for Construction and Monotheism.

What do you think?

Most tweaks are done in cities with minor importance.
 
bcool, I am tweaking the reasearch so as to get Currency two turns earlier. mabraham won't like as I do, but the benefit may be good. I will let the scaffolded(you may enhance them) tweaks and upload not so long. Of course, the tweaks are reversible.

Boni:
Get Currency two turns earlier,
Get Currency before fake Gandhi/Monty by two turns. Then trade Calendar+Currency for Construction and Monotheism.

What do you think?

Most tweaks are done in cities with minor importance.

We want currency asap, regardless of future trades.

The trade you propose doesn't seem that great--it is very lopsided given the AI's valuation of the techs in this game.

Not sure if you are uploading or not, but there must be a better trade than the one you suggest or things have changed a lot.
 
As I mentioned already, the galley there wasn't instead of a lighthouse it was before the lighthouse.

The lighthouse can be whipped after we switch to slavery, so not building the lighthouse first lost us 6-10 food for a galley several turns earlier. Assuming Tachy stuck with the galley build.

I did go for galley first.
 
We want currency asap, regardless of future trades.

The trade you propose doesn't seem that great--it is very lopsided given the AI's valuation of the techs in this game.

Not sure if you are uploading or not, but there must be a better trade than the one you suggest or things have changed a lot.

I will do it in 5 mins.
Sounds like the idea of using calendar to obtain construction from Witches of the West was bad. :sad:
But it is lopsided at our favour...
 
Reference number: 11274
Game: C-IV SGOTM 14
Your team: Kakumeika
Your name: Tachywaxon
Date submitted: 2011-10-28
Software Version: BtS 3.19
Game date: 100BC
Player race: America
Firaxis score: 589
Session time played (hh:mm:ss): 02:56:47
Total time played (hh:mm:ss): 21:44:36
Game status: Incomplete
Submitted save: Kakumeika\'s SGOTM14 - Beginning of T111 - tweaks.CivBeyondSwordSave
Renamed file: Kakumeika_SG014_BC0100_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

Right click the Renamed File link above to copy it.
You can then paste it into your team post as the download link for the next player.
News Update: The Wizard of Oz is still alive


Here is your Session Turn Log from 175 BC to 100 BC:

Turn 108, 175 BC: The borders of New York have expanded!
Turn 108, 175 BC: John D. Rockefeller (Great Merchant) has been born in Vijayanagara (Good Witch of the West)!

Turn 109, 150 BC: Washington has grown to size 8.
Turn 109, 150 BC: GP Farm has grown to size 9.
Turn 109, 150 BC: Silver City has grown to size 4.
Turn 109, 150 BC: Culture Bridge will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 109, 150 BC: Albert Einstein (Great Scientist) has been born in Gems City (Dorothy)!
Turn 109, 150 BC: Wicked Witch of the North has founded Old Sarai in a distant land.

Turn 110, 125 BC: Culture Bridge has grown to size 4.
Turn 110, 125 BC: Wicked Witch of the North will trade Calendar
Turn 110, 125 BC: Good Witch of the North will trade Calendar
Turn 110, 125 BC: Taoism has been founded in Stone City!
Turn 110, 125 BC: You have discovered Philosophy!
Turn 110, 125 BC: Washington will grow to size 9 on the next turn.
Turn 110, 125 BC: Isengard will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 110, 125 BC: You have discovered Calendar!
Turn 110, 125 BC: Judaism has spread in Silver City.
Turn 110, 125 BC: Wicked Witch of the East has founded Roskilde in a distant land.
Turn 110, 125 BC: Good Witch of the East has founded Madurai in a distant land.

Turn 111, 100 BC: Washington has grown to size 9.
Turn 111, 100 BC: Isengard has grown to size 6.
Turn 111, 100 BC: GP Farm will grow to size 10 on the next turn.
Turn 111, 100 BC: Silver City will grow to size 5 on the next turn.

Tell me, was it that bad of an idea? :hmm:
 
We only get the espionage bonus when we have a state religion and that state religion is in the target city and that religion is different than the AI's state religion.
If all of those are true we get 40%. If we don't have a state religion we get nothing.

Just verified this in the Espionage article. Here's the religious contribution to the espionage cost modifier:

Code:
ReligionTypes eReligion = getStateReligion();
if (NO_RELIGION != eReligion)
{
int iReligionModifier = 0;

// City has Your State Religion
if (pCity->isHasReligion(eReligion))
{
if (GET_PLAYER(eTargetPlayer).getStateReligion() != eReligion)
{
iReligionModifier += GC.getDefineINT("ESPIONAGE_CITY_RELIGION_STATE_MOD ");
}

if (hasHolyCity(eReligion))
{
iReligionModifier += GC.getDefineINT("ESPIONAGE_CITY_HOLY_CITY_MOD");;
}
}

iModifier *= 100 + iReligionModifier;
iModifier /= 100;

}

You are all posting too fast for me. Good night ...

Good luck with the rest of your turn set, Tachy!

Sun Tzu Wu
 
Okay now that I have looked at the save, I think your plan to finish currency and trade it along with calendar for construction and monotheism is the best plan. I didn't see any way to improve your get-currency-this-turn tweaks.

Looks good to me. And Tachy mentioned in an email that she could beg for gold and that might make the difference if the trade is close as well once we have currency.

We might want to trade aesthetics to the eastern witches next turn for their spare gold (they will be 1 turn from finishing it, so the trade will be very small and 95%? chance of no diplomatic consequences)

We might as well cancel our resource gifts (pigs and crabs) to the eastern witches (we are not going to get open borders with them anytime soon I don't think and there is no need to give them more healthy resources I don't think)
 
Slider at 60% to get currency earlier is fine. I said 0, or 100, or enough to get a valuable tech faster.
:)

If we can get Currency in two turns at 60% Research each turn, I would prefer 100% the first turn and 20% the second turn which may save 1 Wealth and/or 1 Beaker in round down error for the 100% Research turn.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
If we can get Currency in two turns at 60% Research each turn, I would prefer 100% the first turn and 20% the second turn which may save 1-2 Wealth in round down error for the 100% Research turn.

Sun Tzu Wu

In the latest uploaded save, Tachy shows how we can get currency this turn. So it isn't 60% for 2 turns but 60% for 1 turn.
 
Okay now that I have looked at the save, I think your plan to finish currency and trade it along with calendar for construction and monotheism is the best plan. I didn't see any way to improve your get-currency-this-turn tweaks.

Looks good to me. And Tachy mentioned in an email that she could beg for gold and that might make the difference if the trade is close as well once we have currency.

We might want to trade aesthetics to the eastern witches next turn for their spare gold (they will be 1 turn from finishing it, so the trade will be very small and 95%? chance of no diplomatic consequences)

We might as well cancel our resource gifts (pigs and crabs) to the eastern witches (we are not going to get open borders with them anytime soon I don't think and there is no need to give them more healthy resources I don't think)

All sounds good.
 
Slider at 60% to get currency earlier is fine. I said 0, or 100, or enough to get a valuable tech faster.
:)

Yes (I grasp the reason better now), losing one beaker compared to earlier trade routes and begs makes the choice a no-brainer.
 
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