Rat44 CCM - Ultimate Challenge

Before the final act we fish for Leaders and promotions against four Greek LB, without reward (54-20).

We capture Knossos, defended by three arqs, and:
 
That’s a relief—we would have gotten nothing out of our Greek cities for a long time if they’d had a settler somewhere.

We lose a hussar and sink at least one vessel in port (58-21).

Ten Greek units that we can see, mostly naval, come off the map.

Unfortunately Knossos’s harbour doesn’t survive our conquest, so the town will starve down a bit.

Our southern exploring caravel contacts the Koreans. They have thirteen cities and no gold, and they’ve ahead of us by MilTrad-Colonialism-Enlightenment.

A strange development:
 
Isabella didn’t make any demands and we didn’t give a boot order. The Spanish just landed a single bombarde next to Patras and attacked with it (so we lose a knight; 58-22). Spain is nowhere near us and it’ll presumably be a phony war, with useful war happiness.


1630 (7): We spike the ambitious Spanish bombarde (59-22).

We begin a massive westward movement of our mobile units.

Another of our gpt payments has ended, and a two-and-a-half-fer looks possible—that is, two techs and some of our gold back. ;) First we trade elephants to Turkey for 452 gold to gain a little leeway. Next we buy Colonialism from India for 270 gpt, 15 gold, and furs. Then we send Colonialism, 16 gpt, and 1315 gold to Babylon for Military Tradition. Finally, we sell MilTrad to India for 130 gpt and 15 gold—this is all that’s left of the 270 gpt we just gave them, in another mystery of Civ III finance.

We can now trade MilTrad even-up to Germany for Enlightenment and make the deal a threefer. But we might want to wait before losing the benefits of slavery, so I’ll discuss the question below and the team can decide.

MilTrad renders our castles obsolete, so we have to start some barracks.

Hmm, two Spanish Conquistadors appear out of nowhere and attack Hohhot, on our (Mongolian) border with Japan. We unhorse one and lose a pikeman (60-23). I hope the Spanish don’t have a real army in Japan for some reason.


1635 (8): Our southern exploring caravel meets the Egyptians. They’re one of the tech leaders and have 77K gold, along with thirteen cities.

We account for the second Conquistador outside Hohhot (61-23).

We continue to move units west.

Two missionary victories this round generated one monk.

Nine elite victories this round produced one Great Leader.
 
I’ve been shifting our forces west on the assumption that we’ll attack the Japanese late in the next round. Their cities won’t help us a great deal, but they all count towards world conquest. :satan: We’re average relative to Japan, which compared to what we’ve faced so far in this game is an excellent starting point.

We do have the problem that a lot of our mobile strength is still in the form of decreasingly useful knights, and we can’t afford to upgrade too many of them to hussars (and nothing upgrades to cav in CCM, BTW). So a period of buildup, which in any case will be enforced by the distance some of our units have to cover to reach the Japanese border, will be useful.

We’re in a slight lull in unit production as we work on Small Wonders and infra, but within four turns all our major military cities (there are really only six) can be pumping out US cav or musketmen to support them.

We won’t reach Japanese cities such as Shimonoseki and Kagoshima for quite a while, so we may want to raze and replace places which look like they’ll flip repeatedly. Our three settlers are all on the border or approaching it.

The nine foreign workers near Choir can be used as a roading stack until we return to war, but their real purpose is to build garrisons in the Japanese campaign, so please don’t send them away from the front for any reason. The three native workers in the same area are for war roading, not tile improvements elsewhere.

Don’t entirely forget that we’re at war with Spain—it’s late enough in the game that they might be capable of some landings.

As mentioned above, we can have Enlightenment just by trading MilTrad to Germany, and that certainly wouldn’t be a bad play. On the other hand, we have no interest in that tech line until we’ve acquired Naval Power and Imperialism; it would be good to have slavery still helping us as we build 80-shield US cavalry; and the trade available from Germany now will probably be available soon from Arabia or Indo-China. So I incline towards not doing it, but we should discuss the decision.

We’re eligible to construct five Small Wonders, and we’re hand-building the immediately useful Military Academy and US Cavalry. Battlefield Medicine, Great Palace, and National Exchange probably aren’t important enough to hand-build, and can wait until we’re back at war and generating Great Leaders again.

The workers presently servicing Kazan should next move to Tabriz—not to the more corrupt towns to the west.

The two foreign workers that will become active on the tobacco tile SW of Toronto next turn should join the mining stack on that tile.

We have a Famous Pirate in Ottawa, but it shouldn’t attempt anything without the American frigate (a great flavour unit, Civinator) we’re about to complete there covering it. Units unprotected by nationality, but still visible, are terminally vulnerable.

Winnipeg is at zero food surplus only until it completes its hospital in three turns. Halifax’s growth is being restrained for the same reason.

Our Greek cities will need a lot of MM until they’re fully out of resistance.
 
Excellent to get rid of Greece and to get us really far in the tech department.

I would agree to wait a little until enlightenment is really needed and then trade. We could use this lull now to build academies, libraries and universities. It will help us with our culture standing as well.

Greebley is up
 
I was thinking maybe of trying out republic. I think the unit costs are similar and we could get to rails quickly with the extra resources. It would mean peace for a while though.

The thing is I don't think this would slow down our drive to conquer the world because earlier workers and rails mean faster advance and also we might even be attacking at a tech advantage. Really we will win a short time after getting tanks and another 10%/20% won't be a lot.

Also we haven't tried republic yet so it could be interesting.

So what would be the costs...

We lose a city size going from monarchy to republic and one when we went back right? Or is it more? There is no long anarchy period. The last may make it worth while.

Not capturing cities has a cost in terms of the size of our army. We could fight more limited wars, but we would have less cities. This is only an issue after we go back to
Monarchy since republic is richer. However, if we can sell techs we may make back much more than the cost of having fewer cities.

What happens to our Royal Barracks? Do our cities keep them so they are still there when we switch back? Building them again would be a big annoyance.

Our two biggest cities could still make vet units right? Or does one expire? The other 4 have a bunch of improvements, especially when we hit the next era.

Thoughts?
 
These small wonders will always produce veteran ground units, regardless of the government type or nationality:

  1. Arsenal (Rocketry)
  2. Great Guild (Gunpowder)
  3. Marine Academy (Naval Power)
  4. Marine Corps (Combined Operations)
  5. Military Academy (German Military Academy) (Military Tradition)
  6. Ministry of Defence (The Laser)
  7. Ordnance Factory (Mass Production)
  8. Palace
  9. Siege Workshop (Mathematics)
  10. Worker Houses

Also, The United Nations produces veteran units, in addition to the autoproduced Peacekeepers.
 
According to the latest version of the Civilopedia, there is an additional population loss involved in switching to republic, so the whole process would be pretty brutal just for the sake of spending, say, forty turns in republic before returning to monarchy. (Plus which it would give us a political history like France's. ;))

I seem to recall that despotic barracks disappear when we leave despotism, so presumably the same happens with royal barracks.

As you imply, there's no competitive reason for switching to republic--after all, brokering in monarchy is working so well that we just picked up seven techs in seven turns, and can have an eighth if we want. It's strictly a question of whether we want to make the experiment to learn something extra from this game. I'm not against that idea, but I'd rather wait until we've expanded a little more and have a more complete picture of the world and our rivals. There are still seven civs we haven't met which could be at any level of technology, and any size.

Perhaps our challenge for the next game could be that we have to switch to republic or democracy once we're in the IA?
 
I agree with NP. that a switch in this game doesn't make that much sense unless we wouldn't want conquest.

Remember the war weariness that we get and the great difficulty to get any barracks for the game.
We should try another game that way.
 
Ok, I won't switch.

If anyone was feeling ambitious it would be interesting to see how this would play out with a switch to republic with NP's save (after greek kill seem right time to do it). Switching back when one desires (i.e. time for war) is fine - the penalty doesn't sound that high, but its hard to tell. Population can be recovered - just how much is lost for republic? going back to monarch? The loss of barracks though is definitely an annoyance.
 
Preturn: I accidentally hit enter before doing anything.

1640 AD: I trade for Naval Guns(needed to lower tax rate) for 330 gpt and change, do the Enlightment deal not using Naval Guns, and tried to trade for democracy but its vastly expensive. Instead do the trade of Naval guns for gpt and cash from certain civs. We can then research Democracy in 29 turns at 20% science, 10 % lux which is much cheaper given the govt markup. We have 1524 in the bank and -90 gpt. As we get any gpt back, we can switch over more to science to get Demo faster. I think we are close enough to use science now.
Lowered unit cost a bit by getting rid of any extra vet or regular obsolete units that weren't on garrison duty to lower happiness.

Note that I will be building happy buildings to keep up the lower lux rate without the happiness.

Moved units following the Spanish ships that are heading somewhere...

Oh we also found ?? and Korean cities.

IBT: Spain is showings its 'only one with a score higher than us' standing with lots of boats heading who knows where on our south coast.

1645 AD: Since I lowered our Lux, I switched out the mil academy with Constitution, and am building academy at slower rate.
Switched to scientists which are more efficient (demo in 15) but this puts us at (more) negative gold I think we will get some back before we run out. I will also sell older techs for gold if I have the chance. We actually have more gold now than we did when I traded last turn. Turkey is clearly in the next era, but seem to be the only ones.

IBT: Our exploring ship is sunk by Spain. Knossus seems to be spain's target. It was the one near austria hungary on the northwest of the other continent.

1650 AD: We lost 2 Lux and some gpt. Can trade for the 2 lux and some of the gpt using older techs.
The loss in gpt is large enough that I think I need to switch back to gold so we don't run out so fast -43 gpt out of 1494 and Demo in 25.

East India completed. Spanish and Turks switch to Arms Race.

1655 AD: Balance gold and science. I think Spain will land soon. Several civs are now in the next era.

IBT: And I am proved wrong as the 2 Spanish ships pass each other going in opposite directions. We get Constitution.

1660 AD: Keep moving units to handle Spanish landing. Now I don't know where though.
We can run at 100 gpt deficit and still not run out before India deal ends. I do this and democracy is in 12.


IBT: One of the Spanish ships does land between Thunder Bay and Piraeus dropping a Musketeer and Pike.

1665 AD: The units are on a hill so I don't attack. I cover our nearby saltpeter.

IBT: Another landing the units come off the hill. Built a town to solidify our border.

1670 AD: I kill one of the two units, but the other I would be attacked which I don't want.

IBT: Babylon declares war on Spain. Thats nice of them!

1675 AD: I carefully kill the Spanish units which are now off the hills. The most risky attack is a str 6 vet hussar vs a reg str defender. We win them all hopefully preserving our war happiness. Spain will now trade for peace straight up.
Japan exposes its first weak unit this turn which we kill with a missionary for no prize.

IBT: No landings

1680 AD: Built Buffalo. We got a Monk as another longbow is exposed

IBT: I want to keep the deal with England for incense, however our gpt isn't valuable since I am running negative. I don't wan t the deal to vanish so I pay with gold. We are now a lot shorter on cash, but I believe we can handle it.

Spain is building blue Riband.

1685 AD: We used the new Monk on the new town on the border. This should allow us to attack a new Japanese city on the first turn. I start the road to get there. Germany just picked up Democracy.This is great because we now can trade Naval Guns for Democracy since we have researched it sufficiently to bring down the price. The other civ was 'doubtful' probably due to naval gun research??

Notes:
Well I did not switch to republic, but I pushed hard on advancing tech. By normal play we would still be waiting for the deal to end with India to trade for any tech. Naval guns was very pricey - 330 gpt + a few hundred. So I brought down the amount we were spending on units by a good bit (by the heretical action of disbandment). The Vet Knights got pruned as well as ancient cavalry and such. I did keep garrison's intact so we still have older units for that.

Note that we are still equal in strength with Japan so we really aren't weaker.

So it was an exchange - we have gotten Naval Guns, Enlightenment, and Democracy, but won't be able to attack right away - I don't think. We currently have 2 cities making Cavalry to replace the knights, and are still running negative 37 gpt from the naval gun deal. In 9 turns we get the 270 minus 135 back and then 330 gpt minus 56?? in back trades (it was mostly the 1225 gold that we got so gpt was small).

I also took a big advantage of the Spanish war and the extra happiness as that made getting Democracy possible.

I just prefer warfare with rails as I find it more enjoyable. We are close so I prefer a tech drive to rails over a slug-fest through Japan with limited mobility for my turn.

So I would like to continue to push science in the hopes we can trade our next era tech for some real gains. I think this is still possible. We are limited to 70% science and income, so 70 gold, 20 science to reduce the price of the next tech, and 10% lux to keep the cities happy seems pretty good for now. We actually are positive happy in cities to handle the loss when the Spanish war happiness goes (we may also need to go to 20% lux). Later at some point we can raise science as our research is pretty strong now. We have the banks, happiness buildings to keep science at 70% and 150% bonus from the 3 science buildings in most towns.

Wonders:
I didn't build all the small wonders. US Cavalry the small wonder, and military academy will be in 3 and 4 turns resp. We did get constitution already for the lower lux rate.

Lets build the statue of Liberty in Hovd!!. This would be a huge win as Hovd has no less than 11 coastal squares which will each get +1 food, sheild and trade . Its really rare to have that many coastal squares as it requires a corner of land with 2 square wide harbor next to it. It put the town on that task, but it takes 70 turns so I think the first leader should be used here. If there is agreement on that then we can put Hovd, on a market now and rush the other when we get said leader.

The battlefield med, national exchange, Marine Academy, and 2nd palace are the others.

One other comment. It is confusing that the US Cavalry wonder appears to have the same name as the normal cavalry. I would give the wonder a slightly different name. Not coming up with a good one though.

I like to include a picture so here is Houston the place I used the Monk. We need a road and a garrison on the closest square to Matsuyama.

 
Oops, your traditional error. ;) Where's the save? :D

It would be fantastic to have the Statue of Liberty in Hovd, but it's a single-civ Great Wonder of the sort common in CCM, and so unrushable except by a highly unlikely Scientific Great Leader. Thus we may have to settle for building it in Atlanta, with six sea tiles. In any event, we're unlikely to embark on so long a build until we have rails and factories, so it's not a decision we have to make now.

BTW, the Statue of Liberty has no character--not that she's a slut :lol:, but she isn't industrious or scientific or anything else as a Wonder. So we're quite unlikely to have our Golden Age in time for it to matter. As the Americans, we would have needed useful Wonder captures from our first victims for that to happen, and our neighbours haven't helped at all in that way though they did in previous CCM games.
 
If we got workers over there we might be able to do it in time to make some units before the end. I think several squares were irrigated. With rails and mines on the 9 squares and the shield buildings we could get it to 40-50 shields after rails go in.
I think that could make it worthwhile.
If that is the case for now we should make sure the clock tower and windmill are there. Later we might rush heavy,light, rails if we start having the cash.

For the save I thought I clearly saw it. Very odd. We I will attach here
 
Thanks.

Greebley said:
Rat44 - CCM US Diety-plus

This tag in your sig looks a lot like a save at first glance and may be causing the confusion.
 
Elephantium is up next

If we start to embark on self research, we really need to boost academies etc
 
Many of our unit-producing cities haven't replaced their barracks--so Boston needs to switch to barracks before we hit Enter, Philadelphia after it builds the US Cavalry Small Wonder, Mississauga after Military Academy, etc.

Windmills become obsolete with Industrialization, which isn't far off, so I'd change those builds, also before we hit Enter.
 
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