Von Münchhausen II

Ya, I knew Elizabeth was going to play the jerk role in our game pretty early. Her scout was lingering around our capital while the others kept moving. That's usually a pretty good indicator of the civ that's looking for a weaker opponent to rush. When we box her in with our second city she's gonna get really nasty. Should be fun.

Only input I have is that, again, I agree with Optimal about how to spend our gold. I don't usually purchase buildings either. I think the best use of our gold is to invest in City States. Lizzie's gonna love that too:D With our UA, I think this is a no-brainer.
 
Doesn't anyone read my posts?

When I see CdP that close, I almost wet my pants, I want a city there either right next E to it or maybe 2 tiles East, it has such potential that site. Scout those hills, please!

Settle 1 E of CdP and we won't have that nasty mountainrange within our borders. The cows will be late, but look at that city! It will piss off Lizzy, but then she can't really sneak in a settler there, the AI have a 5 tiles away from the city rule, so she would certainly try to make a mess of that area.

That means 1 NE of the black dot, best spot on this whole map, I bet! And it will NOT take out the barbcamp, which will still be outside the border.

I don't care about settling on the river here, this will be a production/science city, IF we settle one tile east of the CdT. I was going to mention the observatory and Macchu Pichu yesterday, but I forgot the name of the first one...all that was ringing in my head was telescope, telescope, telescope... :) And I forgot the actual name.

So, if I didn't mention it, settle 1E of CdP, you will NOT regret it!
 
Oh you are right that spot won't take out the camp. I also naturally thought of that one, but we will be fighting for tiles with Elizabeth by cultural expansion most likely. Settling there brings in 2 oases and a wheat which has fresh water but is on desert. I think thats 3 :food: when farmed + 1 :food: for a granary.

EDIT: lol where did the civ 4 icons come from :)
 
I don't have a problem with either one of the spots you marked grandad. I wouldn't want to move him any further than that though. I tried looking at the map again and I just can't see any benefit from moving further away. Oasis and desert wheat tiles aren't that appealing to me. There might be something great on the other side of that southern mountain range, but I can't think of anything that would motivate me not to settle right where we are.
 
It's the jungles combined with a fast wat that appeals to me for the black spot. It fits in 6 jungles, as does Gozpels choice. I imagine trading post all 6 jungles and only care about production enough to build all science and economic buildings, maybe even buy some of those. On the other grassland/river tiles have farms and trading posts.

EDIT: Still we have a lot of potential hill farms around for food neutral production, as Gozpel said earlier, any of those 3 spots may be the strongest tiles on the map.
 
Doesn't anyone read my posts?
Oh, I do. A few more people spit out algebra formulas, but I have a problem visualizing anything without a dotmap, and I have problems making out anything in strategic view.

Personally I rather have two Cerra de Petosi's instead of just one. Settling where we are now keeps the gems within, which is 3 gold, 3 hammers, the river-hill pacement is an extra gold and hammer, so we lose 4 gold + 4 hammers if we settle away from the river. That's about as good as a Cerra de Petosi, that's why I say I rather have two instead of just one.
If a mountain placement can be achieved without losing much I'm for that, but here I find it too much of a sacrifice. Most games get decided well before observatories.

I don't mind at all Lizzie settling York against the silk. Different from Gozpel, I nearly always see the AI putting towns at the minimum distance.
I see about 4 towns for us, 1 east and 1 west of the capital, and 1 south. I would try to settle those without bothering much about the AI.
 
Ya, the riverside hill is better. You basically gain food when you settle on it, so you get everything you would have had with a farm, except you don't have to waste a citizen to work it. I wasn't going to say anything because I didn't want to look to opinionated. The trade route is more efficient if you don't stray too far away from the capital as well. See, there's another opinion!
 
Right east of Petosi puts it on flatland surrounded by hills, ugh!
That's a situation I try to avoid always.

Why? Not protected enough or what? 2 archers can take care of that.

This is the best place ever, with only one Maritime CS this place will blossom and with a cultured state it will go: BOOM!!!

I don't understand that you don't understand, what I see here? A mega-city in 100 turns as in my spot, or suffocate the city in 100 turns and beyond - because you will be working mountains after that, mate!

In a long run game, the ONLY spot is 1 E. The potential, the taking-away-another-Lizzy-city, the strength this city will have in 150 turns is unbelievable!

Sure, place a city where half of it's income is lost already by mountains, while Lizzy takes over the N CdP spot.

I can't believe you want to settle a half-city.
 
Then I read back and we want Domination, so then my complains might be off.

Still, (last screeching whinge), my spot is the best on this map, if that was a capitol....oh, my goodness!

But please yourselves.
 
Did you look at the whole picture? South of the mountains there's basically only 1 or 2 spots where we can put a city.
I think Grandad put a dut 1 further north, as he dislikes food, but you would put it on the coast anyway, with those 2 fish, and playing a PangaeaPlus we would like at least one coastal town:
Spoiler :
Then putting a town right next to Petosi messes up a nice layout. We can't be working the gems anymore, and right next to Petosi loses out on 2 further sheep. Assuming that with 2 sheep and 2 cows you will build a stables, losing the sheep means another 6 hammers lost. That's a loss of 10 hammers and 4 gold already in total. It's too much.
But it'll be Grandad to decide where to put it if we haven't got consensus. I will live with where ever he puts it. Although I can't promise not to grumble! :lol:
 
It's not the mountains that influence me it's the jungle. The sites next to CdP bring in 6 jungle tiles and plenty of food to work them. That's 12 base science and 12 base gold with trading posts.

Fair enough we may need to go to war to get all of those tiles, but it might be inevitable anyway.

Theres also the issue of when we will hook up CdP. If we buy Sydney influence, which I think would be a good plan, it will take us a while to get the cash up to buy the CdP tile. Mountains in "epic" can go for 300 gold but that may only be in 3rd ring. Each turn we are not working that we are also losing 10 gold. However our capital is churning out a decent amount after it hooks up gems, so the 10 additional is maybe not so game changing.

Having said that the river site is just as good for other reasons, I would tend to prefer going for heavy specialisation of gold/science for the long term, but the river gives better flexibility with more production for the shorter term.

An additional downside of Gozpels spot is that it will take 2 turns to settle there. Lizzie is not that close IIRC, but we still lose a turn in settling.

But it'll be Grandad to decide where to put it if we haven't got consensus. I will live with where ever he puts it. Although I can't promise not to grumble!
Well it's a good sign if this is all we have to argue about so far :p
 
Well. I come home from work and there's been some pretty lively debate about this settling location!

So if I'm right in reading the posts it stands 2 votes white (Optional, NotSure), 2 votes black (Brichals, me) and 1 vote 1E of CdP (gozpel).

I'm really a floating voter here as I want to be able to work those stable resources and the gems but I also want the jungle for the Wat. I'm not that bothered by the mountains, after all you'd need 36 citizens to work all the BFH tiles!

It also seems that the consensus is to buy out Sydney rather than spending on buildings in the new city so I'll look into that.

I'll see if I can play this evening but I might not be able to till tomorrow so any last min arguments to sway my choice of settling location.... I don't want to role a dice here :lol:
 
I'm really a floating voter here as I want to be able to work those stable resources and the gems but I also want the jungle for the Wat.
Okay, but the difference is only 3 jungle tiles, we're having 3 already on the current spot. So it makes a difference of 6 science beakers, not 12.
For that you would sacrifice 4 gold and 10 hammers each turn and give up a lux (it becomes 4th ring).
There's no other way to get the gems in than the white spot, while we do have other possibilities to get that jungle in, although jungle, even with a few science beakers, is still relatively weak. I believe it's not unusual for Deity players to simply chop them if they're on a river or a hill, as production or food is still a bigger deal.

Of course it becomes more questionable whether we want a stable for only 2 cows. It's quite a hammer investment at first, and that'll only slowly earn itself back if it's only for two tiles.

But city placement is something where people will always have a different opinion about. It has always been the biggest talking point in any SG, so this is normal. I've seen someone quit an SG for not agreeing with a city site, but that's not like me.
 
Yup, you can buy research more efficiently than you can collect it from population, buildings, academies, or jungles. IMO, the stable is a worthwhile immediate investment if it adds more than 1 hammer. If you settle in place I think we get a third stable resource for that city relatively soon. Then there's the water mill... but I've already gone on about that.
 
First of all I'd like to say it was a real pleasure to play my first set in an SG for some time. Horray!

Inherited Turn

I move the Scout using its last MP.

1

IBT a barb attacks the warrior thats on our horses. He dies for his efforts. Fool.

IBT Liz settles York.
Spoiler :




I start the Scarcher back to help deal with the barb camp near Sukho.

Now this is the bit your all probably waiting for. I settle Si Salchanalai (and thats the last time I write that!) but were did I choose in the end?
Spoiler :




I opted for white dot. Optional and NotSure put a good argument together and I agree that the minor extra sci from more jungles isn't that important. I hope this doesn't cause any falling outs :shifty:

I start a Monument in Si Sal. CdP will cost 165:c5gold: as things stand.

2

IBT Gandhi destroys the barb camp by Sukho.
IBT Rammy enters the classical. I forgot to see if he had RAs for sale so I'm not totally sure which tech he took.

Our warrior thats roaming in the west finds some Ivory.

3

IBT India and Eygpt become friends.

Sukho gets its chop and the GLib is now in in 9 (Philo in 7).

I take a risk with our scout and kill a barb in Sydney's territory.

4

IBT Rammy asks for a DoF. I say yes. We're now part of a diplo triangle. Good stuff.
Spoiler :




IBT our Scarcher gets hurt by a barb. Last turn he uncovered a barb on his last MP. Boo!

I should have done this sooner but I give Sydney 250 to become friends. I was spurred on by the desire to avoid our "friends" asking for all our money. The food from Sydney means that I can swich a citizen to a hill in Sukho and GLib is now coming 1 turn faster. Go go Glib!

5

Not much to say really....

6

IBT our western warrior is attacked by a barb and the barb dies.

7

IBT Pyramids BIAFAL. An unmet player enters the classical. England announces its protecting Hanoi.

8

Quiet. Too quiet? No.

9

IBT England announces its protecting Warsaw. An unmet player enters the classical.

Gems are hooked up and we're happy again.

10

Philosophy is in and I set Masonry as a place holder. We enter the classical.
Spoiler :



Spoiler :





Heres some shots of our nascent empire.

Western area inc. ivory.
Spoiler :




Eastern area. I suggest we get out next city somewhere near those sugars.
Spoiler :




In other news Liz will buy our OB for 27:c5gold: so she can't hate us that much.

All the AIs we've met have 3 SP in Tradition.

The Roster
Optional - on deck
NotSure
Brichals
Grandad1982
Gozpel - up now
Notadummy -???

The save
 

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It would be very unlucky if we wouldn't get the Great Library now!

Well played, I haven't looked at the save yet, but there's probably a little mixup of words in your report, it has to be just the scout who was unlucky, not the scout-archer, because I still see him in Si Sachalanai... pfooh, difficult spellings, those
Siamese names.
Another great city spot at that ivory! A little too far for now, I suppose, but this is a nice map by the looks of it.
 
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