What is the best way to counter a tourism victory by a computer?

Nivrax said:

If you are already leading in tech (or not being behind), you can try bee-lining Archeology and stealing as many of her dig sites as possible, those are the ones generating tons of tourism after Hotels/Airports, especially next to their capital.

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after stealing ~2 antiquity sites inside another civ's borders, their leader will tell you that "We have noticed that you have been taking artifacts from our lands ...blah blah.." regardless if you have open borders with them or not. (i don't even know if an Archaeologist can enter foreign borders w/o having OB.)

you can then reply with "We're sorry we won't do that anymore" or "We'll dig where we please"

this happened to me about 40 hours ago when Bismark came up and said that to me. i said sorry i won't dig anymore and he says something like "Good. Those sites are our cultural heritage, not yours." i was rolling in my seat! great job on that, programmers

however, once you do get Archaeology, there are usually TONS of dig sites that pop up over the world; i believe that 50 spawn each game?? usually enough of these sites will be in your own borders or neutral ground.

does anyone know if an artifact you dig up from each civ in a game is worth more Tourism to certain other civs? if it does not matter which civ an artifact is from, then i'll start just digging all the sites nearest me b/c it's obviously the easiest thing to do. up to now, i've been trying to grab dig sites all over the world from all civs, but have noticed that the headline Tourism bonus is always the same.

@civ54lyfe

each artifact is worth exactly 2 culture and 2 tourism. The only differences come depending if you're able to make theming bonuses with them.

The point of grabbing the ones that are furthest away first is that you can probably grab more overall because when AIs open up archeology they'll start with the closest as well.

parts said:

Has anyone, ever, ever seen AI win culture?

I've never even seen them come close (Immortal).

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On Immortal, I had 2 games where they were close. 600+ tourism and stuff (Gandhi and Elizabeth). In fact, only reason they didn't win is because second AI was also going for CV and their culture blocked the other win.

@civ54lyfe

By delaying your digs (that are safe as long as you didn't traded your Open Borders) you can get more artifacts overall if you go for other Civs sites, with some of your troops/scouts parked on top of neutral/CS spots. In case of 'just' preventing CV, you want to dig whatever is within capital range of particular AI, else it will get boosted by all the buildings and NVC. A single fully upgraded site can easily net 30-40 tourism even pre-internet, denying that is pretty huge.

Nivrax said:

On Immortal, I had 2 games where they were close. 600+ tourism and stuff (Gandhi and Elizabeth). In fact, only reason they didn't win is because second AI was also going for CV and their culture blocked the other win.

@civ54lyfe

By delaying your digs (that are safe as long as you didn't traded your Open Borders) you can get more artifacts overall if you go for other Civs sites, with some of your troops/scouts parked on top of neutral/CS spots. In case of 'just' preventing CV, you want to dig whatever is within capital range of particular AI, else it will get boosted by all the buildings and NVC. A single fully upgraded site can easily net 30-40 tourism even pre-internet, denying that is pretty huge.

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Nice to know it's possible. It's a pretty big flaw in my opinion though - releasing a game with a new design feature which the AI doesn't even know how to win.

I also pause to note, however, that digging your own sites earlier gets you the landmark sooner, which you can convert to tourism through hotels and whatnot, and which in the meantime also gets you more culture to unlock more SPs, which are really crucial to the CV game.

parts said:

Has anyone, ever, ever seen AI win culture?

I've never even seen them come close (Immortal).

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Define close? Brazil almost won a Pangea/ diety game versus me as France we were both influential on everyone else and then I just did a complete kill to win a CV

parts said:

Nice to know it's possible. It's a pretty big flaw in my opinion though - releasing a game with a new design feature which the AI doesn't even know how to win.

I also pause to note, however, that digging your own sites earlier gets you the landmark sooner, which you can convert to tourism through hotels and whatnot, and which in the meantime also gets you more culture to unlock more SPs, which are really crucial to the CV game.

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I usually just park a unit on my archeology sites and go dig others

Only start worrying when their culture goes to 3 digits (200, 300, etc.).. and if they start becoming influential over civs that haven't been crushed to one city.

if you somehow let RUSSIA win by culture, you should jump off a cliff (I assume you have time limit off) even on deity that's not going to happen. Alex is more likely to win by DV way earlier (and that can really happen so your priority should be to counter this)

Occasionally the wonderhogs will try to go for CV (definitely not Russia, she will go for SV) and they'll have around 300-400 or so tourism endgame. Here, unless they somehow win international games and have like a 100%+ modifier (Order: shared ideology and less happiness with open borders and trade routes and diplomats) against the highest culture civs, that's nowhere near enough to win. I saw an AI come close once (one civ left) but that one civ left needed 100 turns or so to become influential. so it wasn't really "close".

Resipsa said:

Define close? Brazil almost won a Pangea/ diety game versus me as France we were both influential on everyone else and then I just did a complete kill to win a CV

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Do tell us how long the game went and at what turns this is? (usually rather than killing them a few GM usually makes sure you win before they do if this is the case) and how many turns he has on you to become influential.
I'm surprised because AIs usually will complete their spaceship way before AIs CV becomes a factor in deity.

Also avoid the three tourism bonuses.
1. Shared Religion
2. You giving them open borders. Only them giving you open borders would help your tourism, but not theirs.
3. Trade route

Also, if you have different ideologies, it gives you both a tourism penalty which can be somewhat countered by a diplomat in the capital.

I purposely lost cultural last night. I played against Brazil and never built anything cultural. Too bad I couldn't sell the palace. As soon as Brazil got any tourism, I created a trade route, gave open borders, and converted Brazil's cities to my religion. Eventually I lost

I play Emperor exclusively (not good enough for immortal/deity, king and below too easy) and I haven't seen an AI close to a culture victory ever. Vanilla, G&K or BNW; I think BNW made it even more complicated for the AI to handle.

black213 said:

I play Emperor exclusively (not good enough for immortal/deity, king and below too easy) and I haven't seen an AI close to a culture victory ever. Vanilla, G&K or BNW; I think BNW made it even more complicated for the AI to handle.

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I'm playing an Emperor game now where Korea was on track for a cultural victory. They were influential over all civs except France, and rising vs them. I was going for a domination victory as Zulu and had to change my strategy to attack Korea before France to keep them from winning. Korea isn't going to win the game now, but it was a lot of fun the way their attempt at a CV affected the game.

kb27787 said:

Do tell us how long the game went and at what turns this is?

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I agree, yeah. Could anyone posting about AI CVs document the time (e.g. 1900 AD - not turns if possible because not everyone plays on Standard) please? Since their TPT is generally gaining on everyone's CPT Modern Era and later, I'm sure it'll happen eventually, but by and large they're just not close enough to be competitive for the win - kind of like AI Domination with 8, 10, 12 civs.

Resipsa said:

Define close? Brazil almost won a Pangea/ diety game versus me as France we were both influential on everyone else and then I just did a complete kill to win a CV

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Something like that's what I mean, yeah. Where you look at him and you're like ... that guy might actually take it.

I don't actually blame Firaxis (that much) for this though - competitive human CV wins require some degree of micro, i.e., timing the conjunction of International Games, Internet, and faithbought/hardbuilt GMs for the win, and the AI just isn't, and can't be, that good at micro. I'd just prefer it if less AIs sought to win by culture, since they can't, allowing me to sprint past the whole world in the Renaissance/Industrial due to Rationalism.

You're Greece. Buy up the cultural city states.

There is a list of the place's people want to visit. Take some of the cities on that list as fast as possible and he'll be taken down a tonne.

nuke them to stone edge