SGOTM 14 - Kakumeika

@bcool & mabraham.

Usually, I bluntly ignore (for non cultural victories) riverside plain cottage.
In Washington, do you wish a plain riverside cottage?
 
I would only build a riverside plains cottage if we have filled all the available grass land tiles with cottages and they are all being worked and we expect the capital to grow soon...

So basically skip a plains riverside cottage for now (unless you are just putting one turn in because you are moving a worker over or something)
 
Okay. Even non-riverside grasslands are eligible to cottage I see, right?
That was the meaning behind aggressive cottaging.
 
Okay. Even non-riverside grasslands are eligible to cottage I see, right?
That was the meaning behind aggressive cottaging.

Yep. Cottaging with a plan to run Bureacracy and then maybe Oxford means you want to work all the food, then all the cottages that you can, and few or no mines. So cottages should be improved and worked in the order
  1. riverside grassland
  2. grassland
  3. riverside plains
  4. plains
so that we grow maximally while cottages upgrade. An exception might be made for riverside plains when Financial, but we aren't.

At some time soon we need to put a farm south of the corn so that the corn gets instantly irrigated when we get Civil Service.
 
Yep. Cottaging with a plan to run Bureacracy and then maybe Oxford means you want to work all the food, then all the cottages that you can, and few or no mines. So cottages should be improved and worked in the order
  1. riverside grassland
  2. grassland
  3. riverside plains
  4. plains
so that we grow maximally while cottages upgrade. An exception might be made for riverside plains when Financial, but we aren't.

At some time soon we need to put a farm south of the corn so that the corn gets instantly irrigated when we get Civil Service.

Thanks. Now I can go back to my Washington section on my sheet with a clear head. BTW, in regards to my PPP, don't try to look into it yet, because my changes are made on sheet first and once correctly cumulated, I add changes.
For you too, bcool, ignore my PPP until I say green light to it.
In regards to instant irrigated corn, it was included in my previous worker turns before the U-turn towards agressive cottaging. ;)
 


Godammit. I can't take it anymore.

Okay green fire for most parts.

The remaining parts don't have an extended impact I guesssssssss.

Preferably, I would like to see at least two people trying to find faults. Maybe mabraham as an example IDK because he likes micro.
 
When people upload test saves in future, for turn n, please upload a save for turn n, and for turn n-1. That way, when someone identifies a simple issue with city production, there is a way to fix it once and not have to spend time discussing how to fix it :)

Just wanted to resurface this important comment as...:sleep: Okay later.
 
I don't have the game in front of me, but I would like to a see the overflow from the library whip in Silver city go into a worker for a turn, then switch to a lighthouse to grow back and optimize tiles, then finish the worker before finishing the lighthouse. I'd like to consider sending the chop overflow in Isengard into a worker for a turn and doing the same with the lighthouse as in Silver city.

Again, I don't have the save in front of me and if this is not practical due to population, so be it. I think we need workers sooner than lighthouses.
 
comments in blue

Detailed PPP v1.3

4 days is going to be the end of the world, right? ==> Fail.

Cities:

Washington: Work Sheep, Corn and Cows all the time.

FINISHED.

Spoiler :


Agressive cottage implementation.

T105: Anarchy.
T106: Start a Spy or Build research (that option will depend of Science Section to hasten Currency teching.)
T107: 7th population.
T109: 8th population.
T111: 9th population.
T113: Completion of Spy if no hammers divergence into research.
T114: 10th population.
T115: Works 7 cottages.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Micro:

T105: (25/32 FOOD) Sheeps, Corn, Cows, Cottage, 2*lake tiles ; +5 HAMMERS, +9 FOOD, Spy (0/40) [ANARCHY!!!]
T106: (25/32 FOOD) Sheeps, Corn, Cows, Cottage, 2*lake tiles ; +5 HAMMERS, +9 FOOD, Spy (0/40)
T107: (19/34 FOOD) Sheeps, Corn, Cows, 2*Cottages, 2*lake tiles ; +5 HAMMERS, +9 FOOD, Spy (5/40) [7th POP]
T108: (28/34 FOOD) Sheeps, Corn, Cows, 2*Cottages, 2*lake tiles ; +5 HAMMERS, +9 FOOD, Spy (10/40)
T109: (19/36 FOOD) Sheeps, Corn, Cows, 3*Cottages, 2*lake tiles ; +5 HAMMERS, +9 FOOD, Spy (15/40) [8th POP]
T110: (28/36 FOOD) Sheeps, Corn, Cows, 3*Cottages, 2*lake tiles ; +5 HAMMERS, +9 FOOD, Spy (20/40)
T111: (19/38* FOOD) Sheeps, Corn, Cows, 5*Cottages, RPH ; +9 HAMMERS, +7 FOOD, Spy (25/40) [9th POP]
T112: (26/38 FOOD) Sheeps, Corn, Cows, 5*Cottages, RGH ; +8 HAMMERS, +8 FOOD, Spy (34/40)
T113: (34/38 FOOD) Sheeps, Corn, Cows, 6*Cottages ; +5 HAMMERS, +9 FOOD, 2 HAMMER OF, Research? (will see)[Spy built!]
T114: (24/40 FOOD) Sheeps, Corn, Cows, 6*Cottages, RGH ; +8 HAMMERS, +8 FOOD, Research. [10th POP]
T1125: (32/40 FOOD) Sheeps, Corn, Cows, 7*Cottages (plain cottage...the new one); +6 HAMMERS, +8 FOOD, Research?
this looks good and yes I think the spy can wait if you need to build research to get currency a turn earlier. A monastery might be a better build after currency or possibly wealth.

* Unless I may be too exhausted, I sense a food loss. I tweaked and verified and verified. No change.



Stone City: Works Crabs, rice, stone and gold all the time.

Under construction.

I suggest
T105 who cares
T106 crabs, rice, stone, gold, river grass mine, coast, oasis for +5 food and +12 hammers switch to build settler
T107-T110 same
T111 crabs, rice, stone, gold, river grass mine, oasis +1 scientist settler (should finish this turn with no OF)
T112 19/34 food : crabs, rice, stone, gold, oasis, +2 scientists restart spy build
T113 23/34 food : crabs, rice, stone, gold, oasis, +2 scientists 23/40 spy
T114 27/34 food : crabs, rice, stone, gold, oasis, +2 scientists 32/40 spy
T115 31/34 food : crabs, rice, stone, gold, oasis, +2 scientists 41/40 spy



Spoiler :

No micro yet for the whole turn, but simply put for the moment being, we are gonna build a settler for T112 and found Phants City. Then, it will be probably a galley. We will see. I think we finish the spy before the galley but I could be wrong.





Gem City: Works deer and wheat all the time.

FINISHED.

Spoiler :
T105: Anarchy
T108: Spy.
T110: GScientist
T114: Second Spy. Start lighthouse.
Perhaps we want a galley in Gems after it produces its first spy. We want a galley to take a spy over to the eastern witches and Gems is a pretty good place to build it. I suggest we build the galley for spy in silver city. And I think this galley can carry an axe and spear over to the eastern witches to possibly steal workers from them. We might be able to stretch that build and finish it before T115 by switching a scientist or 2 to a newly made mine?

-----------------------------------------------

Micro:

T105: (33/38 :food:) Wheat, Deer, Clams, Gems, GH, Grass, Grass (Anarchy!).
T106: (33/38 :food:)Wheat, Deer, 7 Scientists, Spy (32/40).
T107: (27/38 :food:)Wheat, Deer, 7 Scientists, Spy (36/40).
T108: (21/38 :food:)Wheat, Deer, 7 Scientists, Spy (40/40). Spy produced. Start another spy.
T109: (15/38 :food:)Wheat, Deer, 7 Scientists, Spy (4/40). Will not generate GPP overflow!!!
T110: (9/38 :food:) Wheat, Deer, Clams, Gems, GH, 4 Scientists, Spy (8/40). GScientist born. Philo bulb!
T111: (10/38 :food:) Wheat, Deer, Clams, Gems, GH, 4 Scientists, Spy (16/40).
T112: (11/38 :food:) Wheat, Deer, Clams, Gems, GH, 4 Scientists, Spy (24/40).
T113: (12/38 :food:) Wheat, Deer, Clams, Gems, GH, 4 Scientists, Spy (32/40).
T114: (13/38 :food:) Wheat, Deer, Clams, Gems, GH, 4 Scientists, Spy (40/40). Start lighthouse.
T115: (14/38 :food:) Wheat, Deer, Clams, Gems, GH, 4 Scientists, lighthouse (8/40).

I saw the error, not related to GA stuff. I forgot the GH mention from T110 to T115.




GPFarm: Works pigs, fish, clam all the time.

FINISHED.

Spoiler :
T105: Anarchy.

T106: Begins the GLib with a overflow/organic production of 84 :hammers:.
Two possibilities are offered. There are no way to go under T116 if not sacrificing beakers and GPP for 2 citizens at the end to make up the missing 4 :hammers:.
This possibility is only possible if we gain the 3 :hammers: earlier from the GH where Ramanujan is sitting. The way is to waste one turn of Fritz to join Ramanujan and finish the GH mine one turn earlier.

T115: GLib built. Between T106-T115, we turn off scientists and work all mine tiles and food tiles plus the flood plain. Grass farm is ignored. Surplus populations goes for scientists and at the opportune moment switch to citizen to build GLib at T115 instead of T116. Shaving one turn may be useful if we feel some danger of wonder loss.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Micro:

T105: (29/34 FOOD) Fish, Pigs, Clams, FP, Grass Farm, a bunch of scientists. No one care because it is anarchy! {78GPP/300}
T106: (29/34 FOOD) Fish, Pigs, Clams, FP, GH, RPH, PH; GLib (0/350), 41 H Overflow, + 106 HAMMERS, +10?FOOD {78GPP/300}
T107: (22/36 FOOD) Fish, Pigs, Clams, FP, 2*GH, RPH, PH; GLib (106/350), + 30 HAMMERS, +9 FOOD {78GPP/300} [8th POP]
T108: (31/36 FOOD) Fish, Pigs, Clams, FP, 2*GH, RPH, PH; GLib (136/350), + 30 HAMMERS, +9 FOOD {78GPP/300}
T109: (22/38 FOOD) Fish, Pigs, Clams, FP, 2*GH, RPH, PH, scientist; GLib (166/350), + 30 HAMMERS, +7 FOOD {78GPP/300} [9th POP]
T110: (29/38 FOOD) Fish, Pigs, Clams, FP, 2*GH, RPH, PH, scientist; GLib (196/350), + 30 HAMMERS, +7 FOOD {84GPP/300}
T111: (36/38 FOOD) Fish, Pigs, Clams, FP, 2*GH, RPH, PH, scientist; GLib (226/350), + 30 HAMMERS, +7 FOOD {96GPP/300}
T112: (24/40 FOOD) Fish, Pigs, Clams, FP, 2*GH, RPH, PH, 2*scientist; GLib (256/350), + 30 HAMMERS, +5 FOOD {90GPP/300} [10th POP]
T113: (29/40 FOOD) Fish, Pigs, Clams, FP, 2*GH, RPH, PH, 2*scientist; GLib (286/350), + 30 HAMMERS, +5 FOOD {108GPP/300}
T114: (34/40 FOOD) Fish, Pigs, Clams, FP, 2*GH, RPH, PH, 2*citizens; GLib (316/350), + 34 HAMMERS, +5 FOOD {120GPP/300}
T115: (39/40 FOOD) Fish, Pigs, Clams, FP, 2*GH, RPH, PH, 2*scientist; GLib COMPLETED, + 30 HAMMERS, +5 FOOD {132GPP/300}

At first, switching 2 scientists into citizens seemed a loss, but bcool made me reconsider, but never explained. I guess the explanation would be:

2 turns of scientists loss: 12+12 beakers*0.25=15 beakers. AND 12 GPP.
GLib one turn earlier: 2*citizens= 8 beakers+8*0.25= 10 beakers PLUS 2 HAMMERS DOUBLED OUTPUT. Roughly speaking hammers and food worth 2 commerces => 8 "beakers", GPP gained from one turn earlier GLib : 12 GPP from scientists and 4 GPP from the wonder.

Additioning all:

(10 beakers+8 "beakers" , 16 GPP ) - (15 beakers, 12 GPP) = (3 beakers, 4 GPP) A net gain! QED.
yes very nice, I assumed it would be better, but now I know :)




Silver City: Works all the time fish and pigs.
Spoiler :
T105: Whip Library with 2 pops and anarchy.
T106: Finish library.
T107: Begin Lighthouse. I suggest we build a galley here instead. The galley should finish T114 without a chop, this galley will be useful in picking up the spy from stone city and taking down to the eastern witches. This galley can be built before a galley in Stone city could be built. It delays the lighthouse, but I'm okay with that since getting a galley and spy to the eastern witches a little sooner will make more progress towards our victory than an extra 6 or so food in Silver city will I expect
Tile use is rather obvious At T107 add the Pmine
at T109 add the silver tile
at T112 add a merchant or scientist


Isengard:

Spoiler :
T105: Anarchy. I thought we may use 1-pop whip before switching to gain some overflow. A proposition, not a settled choice. The rest is w/o whip.
T106: Finish chariot.
T107-T111: Begin courthouse and two chops help its completion. Indeed, saving 3-4 GPT is stronger than starting lighthouse first. Despite food is stronger. Anyways, we are at the cliff of bankruptcy.
T110: Next pop goes for a first scientist.
T111? T112? When the courthouse finishes I want the scientist switch to a spy specialist
T112: Begins lighthouse.
I want an axe and spear from Isengard before a lighthouse so we can steal workers from the eastern witches by loading them onto a galley and hunting coastal workers.
T113: Next pop goes for a 2nd scientist.
T114: Lighthouse finished. The tundra forest chop helps to finish the building in one turn instead of two turns because one hammer is missing.
T115: 43 :hammers: overflow for a military unit.


Culture Bridge:

micro not needed
work seafood then the grassmine then with any extra pop work merchants. (switch grass mine to scientist if needed to get currency a turn earlier perhaps)

Under construction.


Marble City (Founding at T106): FINISHED AND EDITED.

Spoiler :
T106-T108: Runs an artist for next culture ring.
T109-T114: Switch artist to improved clams.
T114-...: Likely to work a improved GH to hasten Granary.

----------------------------------------------------

Micro :

T106: (0/22 food) Artist, Granary (0/60)
T107: (0/22 food) Artist, Granary (1/60)
T108: (0/22 food) Artist, Granary (2/60)
T109: (4/22 food) Clams, Granary (3/60)
T110: (8/22 food) Clams, Granary (4/60)
T111: (12/22 food) Clams, Granary (5/60)
T112: (16/22 food) Clams, Granary (6/60)
T113: (20/22 food) Clams, Granary (7/60)
T114: (2/24 food) Clams, GH, Pop 2nd, Granary (8/60)
T115: (5/22 food) Clams, GH, Granary (12/60)



Phants City (Founding at T113): FINISHED.

Spoiler :
T113-T115: Runs an artist for 2nd culture ring.
T116-...: Switch artist to improved clams (not my turn-set!).

----------------------------------------------------

Micro (ha ha!):

T113 (0/22 food) Artist, Granary for god's sake! (0/60)
T114 (0/22 food) Artist, Granary (1/60)
T115 (0/22 food) Artist, Granary(2/60)







Workers' actions:


Eiffel: FINISHED AND EDITED.

Spoiler :
T105: Finish RPH whereon he was already mining.
T106: One turn road 1E of phants.
T107-T108: Road 1NW of PH gold.
T109: Finish road 1E of phants.
T110-T111 road elephants
T112 road iron and WAKE
T113-T116 improve elephants

T110-T112: Go to dye and road.
T113-T116: Improve phants.

I don't think Eiffel needs help. I think Eiffel can improve the Ivory city all by himself. The roads on the dye are nice but we are not going to need the dye or be able to work it for some time. This frees up fritz to play with other things-fort on the silk for example.

The edit concerns a new itinerary for a settler coming straight from Stone City.
Compared to a settler coming from Washington, we save 2 worker turns (a road) that normally go wasted through city founding!


Goodyear: FINISHED AND EDITED.

Spoiler :


T105: Farm 1 N of Washington Sheeps for a future filler city in far future and wake.
T106: Finish PH 2 S of GPFarm.
T107: Go to Washington's silk (not 1 E of deer, which prevents a desirable but probabilistic growth of forest.)
T108-T111: Grass Cottage 1S2W of Washington.
T112-113 (road case): Improve silk if possible or road it.
T114-T116: Go to sugar and road.




Karl: FINISHED.

Spoiler :


T105-T108: Move and chop forest 2N1E of Isengard (Arbitrary choice instead of Yamasaki).
T109: Road sheeps and wake.
T110-T114: Move to tundra forest within Isengard and chop to speed up Lighthouse by one turn because missing one :hammers:.
T115: Road SW of horses (other half of improvement for next turn-set).



Fritz: FINISHED.

Spoiler :


T105: Move to GH with Ramanujan to help him with the GH mine.
T106: Mine.
T107: Road silk and WAKE.
I suggest
T108 move 1S to 2nd silk, and fort the silk
T109-T116 fort silk. gets 1 turn of help from another worker

I expect we will want the happiness from at least one calendar resource immediately after we get calender. I'm pessimistic that we will be able to trade for it quickly, but we might be able to steal it around T117 or so. Plus GPFarm will never work this silk so a fort is fine here. Plus it might shave off a turn or 2 of movement for a galley produced in Ivory City or gasp! GPFarm.

T108: Go to RPH to join Eiffel.
T109-110: Road phants.
T111-113: Road iron.
T114-T116: Go and mine GH.

Plus we won't need the iron roaded or the GH mine for Ivory city for some time.



Yamasaki:

FINISHED.

Spoiler :
T105-T108: Move and chop forest 1E of Isengard.
T109-T110: Road Isengard cow.
T111-T112: Road NE of copper hill.
T113: Finish a previous road on plain SW of sheeps.
T114-T115: Mine GH in Gems City in preparation to prepare sugar. May undergo some changes.


Hoover: FINISHED.

Spoiler :

T105: Move 1 SE of Washington and 1 turn of cottage.
T106-107: Help Semiramis with cottage 1N of Washington.
T108-109: Cottage 1E of...
T110-111: Cottage 1S of...
T112-113: Cottage 1SE of...
T114: Help Semiramis with plain riverside cottage.
T115: Either improve spices if possible or make a road 1N (or 1E of spices).





Stevenson: FINISHED.

Spoiler :
T105-T107: Mine silver plot.
T107-T109: Road silver plot.
T110-T113: Move to forest 1N2W and chop.
T114: Road pigs and WAKE.
T115-...: Farm north of Silver City until finished and then complete the road for pigs.

Ramanujan (Worker 7's new name): FINISHED AND EDITED.

Spoiler :


T105-107: Mine GH he already on.
T108: Road silk.
there already is a road on the pigs near GPFarm in the real game (another flaw in the test game)
T109-110: Road pigs in GPFarm.
T109 move 1S to 2nd silk fort for one turn and wake.
T110 move 1E of Trojan Horse and road
T111 finish road
T112 move Grass hill south of Trojan horse
T113-T114 road grass hill
T115 sugar?

T111-113: Go onto GH in Trojan horse and road. (Spies silk routes)
T114-115: Road 1 E of the same city.



Semiramis: FINISHED AND EDITED.

Spoiler :


T105: Finish cottage.
T106-107: Cottage 1N of Washington. (with Hoover)
T108-109: Cottage 1E of Washington. (along Hoover)
T110-111: Cottage 1S of Washington. (hand to hand with Hoover)
T112: Help cottage with Hoover (1SE of Washington).
T113-T115: Cottage riverside plains.

) and begin fort building.



Science Under Construction.

Most are consenting Currency first. As regards the next technology, it can be Music if available and reasonable in the race. Otherwise, some other proposes CS so as to benefit asap our future bureaucratic cottaged capital.
After currency I would pause and see what people think online. I'm assuming we go for music next unless someone makes a strong case for Civil Service.

Aside general decisions, micro is still held as long as I don't finish 100% my PPP. In that way, I may test it out and see what can I do to adjust sciences and get as fast as possible Currency.
I'm fine with some micro tweaks to get currency a turn earlier. I trust your judgement about what to sacrifice in order to get it a turn earlier.

Other units FINISHED AND EDITED.
Spoiler :
  • Axeman:

    Will move towards the hub in search of barbs. May dagger towards the mountainous regions.
    If warriors, I mostly let them attack me except situations where he is on a forested hill (plus other side of a river to include those possibilities). In these two cases, attacking a warrior is giving 2 XP's without risk (respectively 99.12% and ~96%).
    Archers cases are defensive except, a big perhaps, attacking in the open at ~94%.
  • Archer around "Clam/Sheep/Marble/Silver/Fur City":
    will roam around while fogbusting. If barbs around, defensive battle.
  • Bond (Spy) :

    Treading towards Trojan horse. Will wait 5 turns of discount (~T113). Steal.
    Some thinks Theology. I think Metal Casting is pressing affair. We need a forge asap in Washington to run the last GEngineer point remaining. Theology is interesting by its cost trade bait, AP is somewhat expensive and Hagia Sophia may already be begun by the time. I also like the idea to use an AI to build the AP and use Taosim free missionary to spread at the last second and make convert the AI to gain benefits. Nonetheless, seems unrealistic I think.
    using the AI to build the AP is something to look for but I assume it will be highly unlikely. If we are committed to this isssue, then we need to commit to building a monastery or whipping a missionary the earliest moment possible and building or commiting a chariot escort for it journey across the world to the western witches.
  • Settler from Gems City:

    Obviously going onto desert hill marble to settle Marble City at T106. Instant access to marble via river and coast. No immediate need or road.
  • Isengard's Chariot:

    Will dagger the mountainous region. May avoid fight to archers at first to ensure survival until region reached.
  • Work boat in Good Witch of the North coast:

    Will continue its itinerary so as to create trade routes further.
  • Pebekkamen (GSpy) in fake Ganshi's lands:

    Will continue its trip towards the north. If dead end encountered, the Great Spy will go back to the spoke to meet try to meet fake Genghis for infiltration I guess.


  • Work boats neat GPFarm and Culture Bridge:

    Prepare themselves for an instant improvement of clams to work them right away. This imposes to bring these out of cultural region one turn before cultural expansion in Phants City and Marble City.
  • Gems City's Spy:

    Will dagger towards Trojan horse. So people want stockpiling or not?
    No stockpiling. Walk around to the GPFarm side of Trojan Horse so you can wait in our culture and still get to Trojan Horse the same turn we run a mission with James Bond. There should be a road on that side of the Trojan horse for that spy to use by the time he needs it. If you note my worker adjustements
  • Stone City's settler : Will move at T112 out of culture borders and found Phants City at T113, that same turn that would a case of a settler coming straight of Washington.


Stopping Points FINISHED.

Spoiler :

  • Wizard encountered.
  • Critical wonder loss.
  • Fail spy mission, detection and diplo hit.
  • A controversial diplomatic choice like help requests and religious request.
  • Philosophy race loss. Which city did philo take as founding?
  • Barb galley.
  • Multiple place to go for the GSpy. (Dilemma of paths)
  • Interesting facts around mountainous region.
  • If it occurs in my turn-set, which is the target of the witches of the South. SoD detected.
  • Axeman or/and chariot loss to barbs. (To goad us to produce another one)
  • Mineral resource popping that screws the PPP (good or bad way).



Checklist FINISHED AND EDITED.

Spoiler :

  • Save at the beginning and the end of the turns.
  • Verify nothing wrong goes with actual playing compated to PPP.
  • Culture borders for unknown lands or remaining AI's.
  • Verifying what the Witches of the South are up to with tech advances.
  • Verifying resource trades between AI's.
  • Religion spreading.
  • Commenting the progression of the game, that way people is constantly updated.


Espionage.

leave the espionage on the northern witches.
run a spy specialist in Isengard when possible
set up a steal of calender from the northern witches if we can't trade for it.
If we can trade for it, then perhaps we switch most (2/3?) of the espionage towards the southern witches so we can see their reseach too.


FINISHED.


I am really getting tired...alright bcool. I ask for help.
I summon Kaitzilla. Make me this favor. ;)
 
I don't have the game in front of me, but I would like to a see the overflow from the library whip in Silver city go into a worker for a turn, then switch to a lighthouse to grow back and optimize tiles, then finish the worker before finishing the lighthouse. I'd like to consider sending the chop overflow in Isengard into a worker for a turn and doing the same with the lighthouse as in Silver city.

Again, I don't have the save in front of me and if this is not practical due to population, so be it. I think we need workers sooner than lighthouses.

I agree that we don't need lighthouses immediately, but I think there are more productive things to build than workers.
I'm thinking a galley in Silver City
And I'm thinking an axe and spear in Isengard to set up a worker stealing team for the eastern witches. Stealing workers is so much more efficient than building them ourselves...

Playing through the game I get the sense that we have enough workers for the short and mid term.
 
hello

I've been in bed/on the couch during the weekend due to a terrible laryngitis and high body temperature. My head felt like exploding at times, so I wasn+t really up to seat in front of the PC and do anything usefull, but I followed the thread on my phone.

I'm sorry my T105 test game turned out to have so many mistakes. I have the T101 test game save, so I could (try to) update the T105 save to match the real game if needed.
In the game I posted the worker actions, unit placement and city builds were accurate, but I didn't really bother checking the gpp points and culture per city. Also, commerce/maintanance were not same in the test and real game, so I worldbuildered some techs along the way. Mansa wouldn't take the city gift, so I WB that too.
I think the test games are great for food/hammer micro planning, and essential for the player to get a grip on the game.

So, do you want me to try and update the T105 game, or you will follow your "put it in the straight line" plan Tachy?

I could post a t104 (from autosave) if you wish

cheers
 
:( Sorry to hear you are sick WW.


Tachy's PPP is looking very polished. It looks like it meets all of Bcool's goals very well :goodjob:.



I can't really add anything except to repeat Shulec's caution against the South Witches who are on a warpath. There are decent odds that we could be the target and we will be vulnerable while in caste system. I propose that our axeman stays in the wasteland beating up barbs while keeping an eye to the southwest for a stack of doom headed our way. Let the chariot explore towards that mountain range.

I think we should take Tachywaxon up on whipping Isengarde, and using the overflow to construct a garrison axeman. I think we should delay a courthouse and build a garrison spearman too afterwards, or a swordsman if iron is available again. This will slow down the courthouse, but building it is useless if our main military city gets captured by the South Witches. About the only way the AI can attack us is through our spoke.

Not much else. I approve of the PPP if it incorporates Bcool's latest suggestions. Thanks for the hard work Tachywaxon!
 
I think we should take Tachywaxon up on whipping Isengarde, and using the overflow to construct a garrison axeman. I think we should delay a courthouse and build a garrison spearman too afterwards, or a swordsman if iron is available again. This will slow down the courthouse, but building it is useless if our main military city gets captured by the South Witches. About the only way the AI can attack us is through our spoke.

I disagree. The southern witches recently went into war prep mode and if we skip the lighthouse we can chop out an axe and a spear by T114-5. Then we switch back to slavery I assume T116 and we can start whipping units out of isengard if necessary (probably will anyway.

Plus if I'm wrong the chops can produce military units instead of the courthouse. (but only if the threat is imminent) I really want that courthouse and the spy specialist. We are far from defenseless even in caste system when we have chops.

I think this courthouse is important not just for the maintenance but also for the potentially critical espionage it gives us for either stealing calender or for getting eyes on the southern witches research that much earlier.

We can check if the southern witches are targeting us with their espionage that sometimes gives us a clue if we are their intended target.

Plus I think the odds of us being the target are quite low. Surely distance is a factor in determining the war target. I know we are a valid land target, so I'm not sure about this but the odds we are the target are quite low.

And I'm against the whip because I want that extra population for a spy specialist and then maybe a scientist/merchant and then after the caste system phase is over, I want that extra population so we can whip out elephants and/or catapults. (or even possibly whip out the lighthouse if it seems like it makes sense in this city that we will whip heavily most likely) Plus the whip "wastes" some hammer since we will go over twice the production value of the chariot.
 
Just in case it isn't obvious

cancel resource trades and trade our excess resources for gold once we have currency. *don't cancel unless there is gold to trade for of course...

After currency check each turn for new gold opportunities for resource trades.

Also we will want to discuss trading for any techs that come up and may want to wait until we finish currency so we might be able to pick up some gold with the trades.

Also we will want to beg for gold from the pleased AI when we get currency assuming they have a decent amount.
Can someone (shulec?) give us some guidelines on how much we could beg from them?
 
My recommended begging guidelines for first begs. Later begging can be more aggressive.

1. Beg for less than 100 gold.
2. Don't beg for less than 50 gold.
3. Beg for 10 or 20 less gold than the AI has. (Beg for 50 if they have 60, beg for 90 if they have 110.
4. If someone has bananas, beg for them instead of gold if we can't trade for them.
5. Don't beg for GPT.
6. Don't beg for techs.
7. Don't make demands (i.e. don't beg from anyone who is not pleased or friendly.)

I basically pulled these guidelines out of the air from my past experiences. I always beg as soon I get currency, or when someone who is pleased with me gets it. I recommend any other beggers chime in.

Make a reminder noting what leader in 25 turns to consider begging again whether you are granted the beg or turned down. (Alt-M)
 
One of our stopping points is if we are demanded something from an AI.

Can we preset some guidelines if there are few people available at that stopping point?

Is it even possible that the game be saved at that point without making decision so it can be discussed on the forum? I have never tried this.
 
Diplo guidelines:

North witches. Genghis and Elizabeth. I would give them any tech they ask for.

East witches. Asoka/Ragnar. Deny all demands.

West witches. Gandhi/Monty. We would only upsed Asoka/Ragnar by giving in. If they don't have the Wizard of Oz, we may be needing their votes.

South witches. Mansa/Shaka. Deny tech demands, accept gold, resource demands. They are the worst emeny of the North witches whom we don't want to anger. I think we can get away with the gold or resource demand without a diplo hit. This would drop us off the war target list for 10 turns.
 
I think that Monty and Genghis are walled off by mountains, and therefore, have only built three cities for themselves. I don't have a city count on Ragnar and Shaka, but this could be true of them too.

The mapmaker may have put their scouts on the mainland to mess with us.
 
Diplo guidelines:

North witches. Genghis and Elizabeth. I would give them any tech they ask for.

East witches. Asoka/Ragnar. Deny all demands.

West witches. Gandhi/Monty. We would only upsed Asoka/Ragnar by giving in. If they don't have the Wizard of Oz, we may be needing their votes.

South witches. Mansa/Shaka. Deny tech demands, accept gold, resource demands. They are the worst emeny of the North witches whom we don't want to anger. I think we can get away with the gold or resource demand without a diplo hit. This would drop us off the war target list for 10 turns.

In general I agree. I wouldn't give the northern witches or western witches philosophy however if they demanded it. I think the diplo hit we can deal with better than giving the AI quicker access to liberalism.
 
I think that Monty and Genghis are walled off by mountains, and therefore, have only built three cities for themselves. I don't have a city count on Ragnar and Shaka, but this could be true of them too.

The mapmaker may have put their scouts on the mainland to mess with us.

I think Genghis was the one who sent us the missionaries, so he at least can't be walled off by mountains.

Although he could be walled off from Elizabeth which would explain why he sent missionaries to us instead of Elizabeth.
 
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