Leaping border, how tf does this happen?

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Valmighty

Warlord
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
122
Germany has NEW city (Cologne) so the culture won't be enough to acquire that land, and i'm pretty sure he can't buy the land since it's more than 3 tiles away.

South of Cologne there are Munich and Berlin, but that's very far away. If this is intended, they should remove the mechanism since it's not realistic in any way.

I'm pretty pissed off since this gave me insta -20s unhappiness (lost connection to all my other cities), and i was careful to micromanage my land buying every turn.
 

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There may be a strategic resource there that you and the AI (probably) can't see. Border expansion goes by where resources are, it can see all of them before you can. Also borders can grow 6+ tiles away from the city if given enough time, or they just have no where else to expand to.
 
Frankly, I don't see the problem. If all available tiles have been claimed, Cologne's border expansion has to go somewhere. After all, Cologne isn't that new (it has 7 pop) and has survived your citadel spam. And it doesn't seem like you were microing land purchases all that well, since the tile that Cologne claimed is within 3 tiles of both Tokyo and Satsuma. You're always at risk if you build critical road segments through no-man's land. I'm guessing that you don't have the tradition opener, since your cities have anemic border growth for so late in the game.
 
Pretty sure he's not growing correctly, if his capital only had 14 at T293, and actually let AI get dynamite before human? Should've captured and razed Cologne a long time ago, it's always bad news when AI plant city that close to capital. I'm assuming he's going into wars since he already used GG bombs.
 
Browd said:
Frankly, I don't see the problem. If all available tiles have been claimed, Cologne's border expansion has to go somewhere. After all, Cologne isn't that new (it has 7 pop) and has survived your citadel spam. And it doesn't seem like you were microing land purchases all that well, since the tile that Cologne claimed is within 3 tiles of both Tokyo and Satsuma. You're always at risk if you build critical road segments through no-man's land. I'm guessing that you don't have the tradition opener, since your cities have anemic border growth for so late in the game.
Click to expand...

Yes i chose Liberty.

About microing, I'm not that good on Emperor so it always gets down to money. i had to choose which one to prioritize, including the road. But that one i don't know if Cologne can expand that far leaping my border.
Popedesu said:
There may be a strategic resource there that you and the AI (probably) can't see. Border expansion goes by where resources are, it can see all of them before you can. Also borders can grow 6+ tiles away from the city if given enough time, or they just have no where else to expand to.
Click to expand...

So if i reload and buy that tile, they can't expand anywhere else?

Btw, it's not realistic. You guys have no problem over this problem?
 
^^I'd definitely reload and buy that tile. I don't see where else they can expand

Personally, I don't like the idea that the AI can expand to that tile. One would think that border tiles would have to be next to each other/joined.

I never would have expected what happened to you.
 
^^Personally, I would re-load, mainly because there are no workers in the immediate area and would take several turns to get there. And several turns to build the roads.

And keep in mind that it's -19 happiness.
 
Valmighty said:
Yes i chose Liberty.

About microing, I'm not that good on Emperor so it always gets down to money. i had to choose which one to prioritize, including the road. But that one i don't know if Cologne can expand that far leaping my border.


So if i reload and buy that tile, they can't expand anywhere else?

Btw, it's not realistic. You guys have no problem over this problem?
Click to expand...

What do you mean it's not realistic?

Look 2 tiles south of Satsuma. I'm guessing that's a Cologne tile. That's the same ring as the tile that just got claimed.

The game grows generally outward from the city. If there are no tiles closer to claim (and there are not) then it will snag a further tile away. Which tile would you prefer it to grab? You have built this situation for yourself by A) allowing Cologne so close to you for so long and B) not purchasing all tiles you could when it was, especially ones that they could take.

The game is functioning fine within the realm of it's rules. You just managed to create a situation that would induce odd behavior within those rules. That's not the fault of the rules.
 
And had you built a road segment one tile SE (inside your culture borders), you never would have had this problem. Having that much happiness dependent on a road segment that is not inside your culture borders is simply not wise.

To respond to someone else's question, you'll see this if you play enough games (sigh ... too much CiV?), but it more frequently happens on sea tiles, since the culture border expansion algorithm puts them at lowest priority, so those tiles are often still available later in the game, when this becomes more relevant.
 
^^It's also possible the stupid "adviser" recommended that he build the roads that way. The same sort of adviser who recommends forward settling on Shaka, or settling a second city two or three tiles alway from my capital.

@chum: As you said: " You just managed to create a situation that would induce odd behavior within those rules..."

I agree with you--it's an odd behavior. By that I mean, something one would not normally expect. To be honest--I've played a ton of games and this is the first time I've seen that happen.
 
I never saw that before. Very interesting. I think that was an exceptionally smart thing for the AI to do. I've done it to other civs but adjacent to my lands.
I never played on emperor, is it normal to have enemy cities bordering the capitol?
 
^^I've had the AI settle enemy cities very close to me like that in several games.
 
Yes, if the enemy civ doesn't like you and is warmonger type, he will place cities minimum distance from your cities, and also citadel bomb to steal your land. Happens all the time on deity, with Shaka etc. Therefore, learning to block settlers is a skill you have to learn.
AI will not place a city immediately adjacent to your culture borders, can't place a city within 4 hex of another city, and will usually never place a city on top of resource or lux.
 
I see these one tile bubbles of foreign owned land fairly often while trouncing through enemy territory in the mid game.
It is very rare, however, that you witness a bubble appear in your own lands, and that bubble wrecks all your happiness.
Reload! Buy tile.
 
Just build a few road segments and reconnect in your territory. Chalk it up to experience.
 
Wait what? Luxuries require city connection for the happiness to be counted?
 
No, he has the liberty Meritocracy where each city connected to capital has +1 happiness. The same thing can happen also if someone pillages your roads outside of your border. Someone unwilling to sell OB can also drop a city on top of your roads, and will cut off your city connection. That's why you have to watch where your roads pass through when you play liberty domination.
 
Callonia said:
Wait what? Luxuries require city connection for the happiness to be counted?
Click to expand...

I don't know about this. The only way I know of that resources behave in an unexpected manner is that if you hook up Horses for example 4-5 tiles away from the city, that city will not be able to build a Stables if this is its only improved Horses/Cattle/Sheep tile.
 
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