Should Civs that start in a Tundra bias change to a different bias?

Sharples

Prince
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Jan 10, 2014
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Considering how bad Tundra is. I've had Russia starts where there is Tundra around you and you HAVE to rely on forested food tiles to get anywhere with a good population. Same with Sweden they biases are very unfair especially in the Mulitplayer where people get Plain and Grassland starts. Your capital is going to lack behind in a Tundra start.

Even Raw desert is better than Tundra tiles because you can build farms on it. You need either a lake tile or a river tile to make a farm on Tundra which is my games aren't usually common. (Not sure if this is the same for others). There are no Tundra wonders. Tundra faith pantheon is very hard to work without Rivered/Lake Tundra. Fertilization is useless because you can't make farms on them. There is no production, no gold. Just raw food tiles that only come useful during Civil service which will give three food (and again it has to be rivered or laked).

Plus, in my experience barbarians seem to spawn up in the snow where Civilizations do not spawn as often and they don't explore these areas, meaning they're not going to help against them, so while you're exploring you're probably getting pillaged.
 
The only advantage I see of beginning on tundra is distance between you and other players - you have usually more ground for your cities and less neighbours. Barbarians aren't problem anyway - they are no threat if you remember to keep 1 warrior near city after obtaining a worker. Actually, barbarians are very good and kind people providing you XP, :c5gold:, workers, :c5influence: and optionally :c5culture:.

But I agree that starting closer to equator is much better. Game is much faster and more interesting.
 
Might be just a wee bit of bad luck involved, there's PLENTY of deer/truffles tiles in my Tundra starts, and if you're coastal, you're pretty much fine
 
Actually Russia start bias is usually better than Egypt civ for early wonders. Once in a MP game a guy took Russia, he beat me on every important wonder even with stone + marble.

As to toundra starts (Russia is more plains), I believe they could allow a toundra wonder, and even ice starts with new resources (like seal) appearing with techs or civics.
 
I don't get why they didn't add a Tundra wonder. I mean it would make sense to make one with combination of the Petra wonder. (Imagine Petra and Tundra wonders in the same city lol).

But this would make Tundra starts a lot better, considering it's not going to be as contested as the Petra wonder. I see a lot of civs starting in Desert.
 
Well, from a 'realistic' perspective, they certainly should - neither Sweden nor Russia 'started' in tundra in reality. For that matter, tundra, by definition, doesn't have dense forests on it, so forested tundra doesn't make much sense. I understand they were going for some sort of 'unproductive land', but if we're going down that rabbit hole, their entire geographic system needs reworked (i.e. it doesn't make much sense for Mongolia to start in more fertile/productive land than Sweden).
 
well, Desert Folklore + Petra is all sorts of OP to be quite honest. Imagine lots of Tundra mines pumping in those beakers, mad
 
Tundra starts aren't the end of the world. You're generally close to a temperate climate anyways, and you don't need THAT many good tiles to ignore the fact that tundra is plains minus a production. Like desert, you have a religious pantheon, and hills are hills no matter what type they are.

I'd still take a generic tundra start over a generic jungle start any day.
 
For that matter, tundra, by definition, doesn't have dense forests on it, so forested tundra doesn't make much sense.

Yeah, "forested tundra" would just be taiga. They could make a taiga terrain that turns to tundra if you chop down the forest similar to how jungles become plains and marshes become grassland(?).

As for a tundra Wonder, what would it be based on? Petra is a real life place, but there's no real life thing that comes to my mind that could be a tundra-affecting World Wonder in the game.
 
Just googled a bit, Framheim is the name of the base used by a norwegian expedition that first went to the geographic south pole.

I'm honestly thinking of modding a wonder with bonuses to tundra. without deer it just doesn't provide enough food. hills come up often enough that you can get decent production. Keep in mind that with tundra you can't build farms.

How about this: wonder X, can only be built in coastal city on tundra, all tundra tiles in city provide +1 food +2 science. wonder gives +1 culture +1 GS point. maybe unlocked at compass.
 
I just give Russia an additional River and Forest bias using Really Advanced Setup. Makes it a bit harder to get Horses near the Capital but some Forest is better than open Tundra. If I want Dance of the Auroras, then I can just chop the Forests along the River. (I almost always just get Goddess of the Hunt though.)
 
One of those ice castle hotels like the one in Quebec would make an awesome tundra wonder. Just make it a hotel on steroids that becomes unlocked a few techs before regular hotels do. Sounds like a lot of fun.

Once I tundra started with Sweden and got 9 fish. God of the sea, and I was fine that game.
 
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