What do you think of adopting Honor early to help with Barbarians and gain culture?

Taking Honor is not 15 culture, it's 300+ as stated in the calculations above. :) But sure, for raging barbs it's great. if you are going Honor anyways, it's great. Maybe even for Aztec, Germany it's good. Just for fun - it's great. :)

it's just not optimal.
 
Other thing is that mostly citystates will tell you where the barb camps are anyway
 
The last time I opened Honor for barb killing was with the Aztecs. Even with extra culture from killing barbs, my first finished policy tree was significantly delayed, and that tradeoff gets worse over time. Opening Honor for culture on kills is certainly fun, but it does not pay for itself in the long run.
 
dasaard200 said:
Honor, Raging Barbs, "Barb. Unlimited XP", "Barb. Spawn Increase", and Aztecs; what's not to like ?? This more than makes up for using 1 dip into a SPolicy, and helps even out jungle starts .
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with these conditions it is often worthwhile to finish honor too. I had to delay settling cities by venturing out further so that I could farm the barbarian camps that where closer to me. Alas after many centuries farming these camps for a huge amount of gold, culture and XP some AI units got around my protective wall and destroyed the camps. ..
 
Tradition would be a lot better than honor in reality. It is so much easier to use while honor you have to move many units.
 
For Our friend, reddishrecue, a possible/plausible SP line could be T1, H1, T2-6, H2-6, other; or; T1, H1-3( double XP),T2-6, H4-6, other .
 
That depends. Would you sub in l for t if there's a lot of space to expand?
 
I have a different point of view on this than others. Maybe its just my perspective.

In the Vanilla game, you HAD to finish the culture trees to win a culture victory. Now, its not necessary. Yes, the benefit for the whole tree is nice, but it's not always something that really provides the benefits you need at the time. I have caught myself time and time again clicking the next selection in my culture tree, only to stop and think, what did that do for me? Nothing is commonly the answer. Lately I gave been branching out into multiple trees, using combination to greater effect and trying to stop chasing the "mythical" completed tree. As long as the picks you make benefit your civ, take what you want. Its all about play style.

PS - If you cant get 300 culture out of killing barbs, what kind of game are you playing? I have used units to permanently surround barb camps to just create culture. I have killed many barb infantry. I am not sure why this seems so outlandish to some people.

My last game where I kicked butt, I took 1T, 1L,1H,1P to open. Finished out liberty for fast expansion, took 1C for the gold, Started R and then went into my ideologies. Won the game easily.

:king::goodjob::crazyeye:
 
Well in theory you're not wrong. It's true that finishing a tree is only another set of bonuses (on top of the last policy).

But the problem is that in reality this is skewed due to tradition finisher being one of the best policy in the game AND many openers/starting policy to be quite weak in comparison at the time you can finish tradition (T60 to T80). Liberty also has 2 good policies when you finish it (meritocracy and representation) while having a decent finisher.

So after opening one of these 2 trees you're kind of forced to go down in it because that's where the good stuff is, grabbing Landed Elite and Monarchy or Collective rule and Meritocracy. And then you end up with a choice between finishing your tree or starting another one with a very weak opener (in comparison).
Things like +25% gold in capital or faster GWAM do not compete with 4 free aqueduct on turn 70 + 15% health + 15% wonders + 1 :) per 10pop.

To be fair Liberty, Piety and Honor are actually all 3 tree that can be interesting only taking a part of them. But that doesn't apply to tradition. That tree is made to be finished asap.
 
For reddishrecue, if there is a huge area up for grabs, I would go T1, H1, L1-6, other; depending ... but if Liberty start, get the Pyramids ASAP for 'quick tiles' to punch out forests, roads, etc.; also plan on having a few (4-6) workers on hand for multi-tile projects, roads (a 'conga line' which finishes 1 road tile per turn), chopping many forest tiles for a Wonder, and so forth .
 
CraigMak said:
I wouldn't do it. Filling out tradition ASAP is more important than a gaining a bit of culture. Barbs are easy enough to kill. It might be useful if you are on raging barbs without CS, then you will get swarmed and the culture could add up to quite a bit. Otherwise I would pass.

It's all about Tradition, Liberty or some mix of the two with Tradition being stronger than Liberty most of the time.
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Tradition is going to get filled pretty quickly (depending on barb levels) with all the extra culture from killing barbs.
 
SULOMON said:
Tradition is going to get filled pretty quickly (depending on barb levels) with all the extra culture from killing barbs.
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If you get lucky and get many barbs you can make that much more social policy than tradition sometimes. That's why honor sometimes get completed quicker and faster than other social policies.
 
It can be worth if especially if you take all the honor tree not just the starter and then have a civilaisation like aztec that goes well with honor.

I was very sloppy through in this game and around turn 400 I had a negative 4 happiness and negative 150 gold income however most of the turns I still made 500 to 1000 gold/culture from killing enemy units at sea (mostly done by experienced submarines units with double attack promotion). A particular turn I went broke to stop a nuke and ended with 60 gold however soon after I was 1600 gold picking up an entire zulu invasion force heading from two fronts East and West.

Thou ended the game in a science victory, at the point of save my science was lacking behind of France due to focusing on the war effort. I gave up on Domination Victory after shaka grew too big and would have had to micro too many units
http://rinmaru.com/files/pin/Montezuma_0398 AD-1978.Civ5Save.
 
What I would like to see is a discussion about opening honor while waiting for rationalism to unlock. Is that at all competitive with the alternatives?

Sharples said:
opening honor for instance then going into tradition/liberty will pay off in the long run.
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Such assertions are not warranted by the math.

Take a look a this Civ5 Wikia table where k=5 (fifth policy in Tradition/Liberty) for n=4 (cities) versus k=6.

Opening Honor means the Tradition/Liberty closer costs the player an additional 885 culture. You really think you can kill ~100 barbs by turn ~100?
 
This game, using the scrambled map, Russia, and the 'Barbie+' mods, with 2 cities; YES, by my count, 106 barbs by T94 . Huge map, lots of ruins, and all 6 of my scouts upgrading to archers, which are now Cbows . I didn't put down city3 until T103, city4 at T120; but with Time VC off, I've GOT the time for a long game (on king), working up to Minutemen ... city5 will be my first port .
 
beetle said:
What I would like to see is a discussion about opening honor while waiting for rationalism to unlock. Is that at all competitive with the alternatives?
Click to expand...

You mean after finishing trad or lib ?

For a single or 2 policy investment I find patronage/commerce/aesthetics to be better investment. The only reason I'd put extra policies into honor is if I plan to go further after secularism, right part of rationalism not being all that hot for domination (unless Xcom domination I guess).
 
I typically adopt Honor by itself pretty early game (usually after adopting Tradition) just to help with barbs.

For one, it helps my scouts survive a lot easier. My warriors can take out 3 barbs and a camp just from defending and healing. And you get culture from killing them too, which I like to think helps the policy pay itself off.

It also makes killing barbs for city-states a lot easier, thus helping you to get early friends and allies.

But of course, it ups the cost of future policies. What do you think of this strategy, as opposed to just filling out Tradition ASAP?

Let's especially consider cases where you're not Poland and you don't build the Oracle.
 
There is literally a comprehensive thread on this question just last month :). It's okay to search first before starting new ones... you'll make Jon's life easier.
 
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