Terra Map is a fraud

Chicoutimi · May 13, 2015

Terra map is this map where all civ start on same continent pangea like, but there is a new world to be discovered and settled.

But for any other civ than Polynesia you need astronomy to find it and then settle it, which wont happen before turn 100 (quick speed). You need then to send your settlers, worker and military units which pumps you prod at a time you would need it; and you'll start founding cities on the new continent around turn 120.
On quick speed the game ends at around turn 200; i've tried it a few different ways but its stricly impossible to found cities at turn 120 on the other side of the map, too far to send internal trade route to grow your new cities, and take advantage from it.

And even with Polynesia going liberty its really tough to make a few cities on new continent before turn 100 and make it worth.

so your thoughts, is terra map a fraud?

XaW · May 13, 2015

How about Indonesia with their unique luxury resources? I'm unsure if they are viable, but at least they get a bonus from it.

Mesix · May 13, 2015

If you want to settle the other continent, try playing on standard or epic speeds. The quick speed is what is producing the effect you describe. The same is true for units being outdated quickly. If you want to enjoy classical or medieval era wars, don't play on quick speed.

My impression of Terra is that you can play it like a Pangaea any faster, because everyone is closer together on the smaller continent (compared to a Pangaea map). You can largely ignore the other continent.

LordBalkoth · May 13, 2015

Mesix said:
If you want to settle the other continent, try playing on standard or epic speeds. The quick speed is what is producing the effect you describe.

No, it's not. Playing on Standard would just mean you could start sending people over at 130-150ish instead but you'd still (theoretically) be able to win science or another victory by turn 250-300 anyway. same problem of the cities having to be founded 100ish turns after the original ones. and if you're going to say something like "well, you might not win science until turn 450 on lower difficulties" then you're not going to be hitting Astronomy by 130-150 either, so that would be more like at turn 200ish...so same issue.

stormtrooper412 · May 13, 2015

eh, not every civ thrives on a Terra map, just like not every nation managed to colonize the "new world" historically.

Perhaps a Terra map where not all civs start on the same continent would work better (historical start locations mod or sth) but the beauty of it is being able to sail overseas and perch on good locations that will not be discovered early anyway, that's what makes Polynesia kind of fun and definitely unique

twilson1972 · May 13, 2015

I think this has been an issue of a few versions of civ.

I love the idea of racing to the new continent but it rarely seems worth it by the time you can.

That is even more the case nowadays in CIV V where additional cities have drawbacks.

I played a new world scenario a week or so ago, discovered america first but when it came to the crunch there was no benefit whatsoever in settling it. I just grabbed the huts and killed barbarians

Mesix · May 13, 2015

stormtrooper412 said:
eh, not every civ thrives on a Terra map, just like not every nation managed to colonize the "new world" historically.

Perhaps a Terra map where not all civs start on the same continent would work better (historical start locations mod or sth) but the beauty of it is being able to sail overseas and perch on good locations that will not be discovered early anyway, that's what makes Polynesia kind of fun and definitely unique

The late game ruins in the New World are also a nice bonus.

stormtrooper412 · May 13, 2015

Yeah, getting free ST can't possibly be bad

vadalaz · May 13, 2015

You can only get Ancient era techs from ruins. Late game ruins aren't very useful since they don't scale with era, you still get only 20 culture in Modern etc. Free pop ones are great though.

twilson1972 · May 13, 2015

How could things be balanced to make mid game exploration more profitable? Or do you think things are fine already?

twilson1972 · May 13, 2015

vadalaz said:
You can only get Ancient era techs from ruins. Late game ruins aren't very useful since they don't scale with era, you still get only 20 culture in Modern etc. Free pop ones are great though.

I dont know if it was my scenario (legendary earth mod) changing rules, but when i discovered america i sent a longbow over to grab huts

I had my longbow upgraded to a gatling gun by a ruin, which seemed odd to say the least.

vadalaz · May 13, 2015

Yeah, you can get one upgrade on any military unit from ruins. Particularly fun if you get a Keshik/Camel upgrade with a Chariot Archer. :goodjob:

twilson1972 · May 13, 2015

personally i think...

If you found a city in the industrial period it should be size 3 and have a few basic buildings, those founded in modern slightly more etc.

It would make it more attactive to do post astronomy colonization, plus it makes no sense that a colony founded in the industrial age has the same output as one in 4000bc.

beetle · May 13, 2015

Chicoutimi said:
Terra map is this map where all civ start on same continent pangea like, but there is a new world to be discovered and settled.

The AIs don't know it's Terra, so I think it might be an interesting option for MP. Not that I play MP...

You have to start the colonization plans from T0, but that is why you pick the map and the civ! So, for most civs, OCC until Astronomy. I have not tried this myself actually (on Deity) because my early tech rate is just too slow. Once I get better, I plan to try Terra with Spain.

And even with Polynesia going liberty its really tough to make a few cities on new continent before turn 100 and make it worth.

I have done this a couple games with Polynesia and it seemed OP. Other than my cap, I did not bother with cities on the mainland at all. Again, colonization plans start at T0. Crossing the ocean is a pretty long delay, but it all comes together before too long. A couple extra (Maori) Warriors in the early build queue is all you need. They clear the barb camps, pick sites for cities on the new world, and pop ruins.

I think some people play Poly Terra by heading their initial settler to the new world on T0! I have not tried that, as the delay seems like it would be tough to make up.

shaglio · May 13, 2015

Choosing a Terra map from the start kills the surprise of the New World. One thing I enjoy is using the Shuffle Plus map script. It adds more map types into the standard Shuffle script, including Terra, so that you might actually be surprised to find out there's another continent that nobody started on when you start exploring the open seas. Or you might not - you never know until you get your caravels out there.

binhthuy71 · May 13, 2015

Sometimes I just want a different kind of a game, one where I'm working against something in addition to AI advantages. This type of map, where large scale colonization is an option, provides me a nice break from the norm.

beetle · May 13, 2015

shaglio said:
Choosing a Terra map from the start kills the surprise of the New World.

Absolutely. But if you are already being quite challenged in your play (as I am, almost every game), then I agree with OP that the player has absolutely no hope of settling in the New World. So, IMHO, Terra is only actually interesting when the player knows ahead of time and has picked a civ with a UA suited for exploiting the map. Yes, that makes the game much easier. But otherwise, Terra is just noise, and (by the time a player could figure it out) a missed opportunity to play a little differently than usual.

IronfighterXXX · May 13, 2015

The problem with terra map is that nobody (well, nobody who know, how to play the game) gonna settle this new land, as settle after astronomy in current state of game is definitely not a good idea, unless for roleplaying reasons, but for me civilization is more strategy then RPG game.

shaglio · May 13, 2015

twilson1972 said:
personally i think...

If you found a city in the industrial period it should be size 3 and have a few basic buildings, those founded in modern slightly more etc.

It would make it more attactive to do post astronomy colonization, plus it makes no sense that a colony founded in the industrial age has the same output as one in 4000bc.

I suggested many moons ago that, when you build a National Wonder, all subsequent cities that are founded should start with the building that is a prerequisite for said NW. The idea didn't get much traction, though, and I don't believe anybody made a mod for it or anything.

beetle · May 13, 2015

IronfighterXXX said:
The problem with terra map is that nobody (well, nobody who know, how to play the game) gonna settle this new land

I agree -- which is why I would argue that the player knowing the map and planning to OCC until astronomy is not cheating! This sort of self-imposed handicap/challenge is really about the only way to make it relevant that you are on a Terra map.

...for me civilization is more strategy then RPG game.

That certainly seems to be the most common perspective on this board. I think I would have lost interest by now if that were true for me.

Terra Map is a fraud

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