Nationalism vs. Internationalism
- Thread starter Samuelson
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It is not racism exactly, but it has the same negative aspects of racism. For that reason it should be looked at the same way we look at racism.
In America, its exactly the opposite. They've gone so far as to make little kids who are in first grade (six years old) say a pledge of allegiance every day while looking at the flag. I wouldn't have a big problem with it except for the fact that they are too young to have a political opinion and know the other side of things. It is propoganda, really, because it is the indoctrination of an opinion. It is very effective at that young of an age too.
If someone is not a nationalist it does not mean they are selfish. It just means that they have empathy for the whole human species instead of just people in their own country.
Catharsis
catch u on the flip scythe
How I view nationalism is not 'putting your country ahead of yourself' (although for some, like those in the Armed Forces, that is the description) but simply being at least vaguely aware that you live in a country populated by other people who don't particularly want you to play your music at 2 a.m. It's a rather loose connection, but one I believe exists - although it would be a shame if levels of nationalism in Britain evolved to the levels of 'flag haggery' around in the USA.
An internationalist is someone who feels just as much empathy when something happens to people outside of their country as when something happens to people inside their country.
Elta
我不会把这种
It's worse in Mexico - the kids have to sing songs while giving the mexican salute for at least an hour every week.
We did in school to but, it was like once a year and we didn't have to stand around like little soldiers.
Elta
我不会把这种
I know
Mexico is actually supposed to be the same thing - Estados Unidos Mexicanos - States United-people Mexicans : United states of Mexico
Fugitive Sisyphus
Escape Artist
Most people care about what happens to their family more than what happens to their neighbors, they care more about what happens to their neighbors than what happens to the people in their region, they care more about what happens to people in their region than to people in their country, and they care more about what happens to people in their country than what happens to people in the world.
Saying nationalism is bad is just demonizing an arbitrary level.
I can understand when you say people care about who they know (family, neighbors) more than people they don't know. That is natural and understandable. But caring about people who live in your country but who you do not know more than caring about people who live outside your country who you do not know is not natural. It is self created and it is not demonizing to go against it.
I'm not convinced there's any correlation here. Consider that the US is the exact opposite in terms of nationalism (always on about patriotism, and kids are made to pledge allegience to the flag!), but has all these same problems, if not more so.
(Do you have a reference for someone being fired for displaying the Union Jack?)
Also note the distinction between the UK, and the individual countries. During the World Cup at least, nationalism for England is alive and well, with English flags displayed everywhere. The flags of individual countries don't have the same issue that the Union Jack supposedly has. Possibly this is because people feel more nationalistic towards the country rather than the UK as a whole? Or possibly because of the associations with the BNP?
Not only do they do a pledge of allegiance every day here, but they have something similar to what you do too. Once a year schools have "flag day" where they patriotic songs for the whole day.
oagersnap
Emperor
That's not my opinion, that's an aspect of the nationalist ideology. For example during WWI, lots of young men joined the army because they were being almost brainwashed by nationalist propaganda.
I don't agree with that notion, but my point is that although extremist nationalism might be as bad as racism, a more moderate form of nationalism is also possible, and nationalism doesn't necessarily require viewing some people as better than others.
I think there is one rational reason why I care more about events to strangers in my own country: because the same events are more likely to affect me. But yes, I agree with your general point.
Aramazd
Deity
I'm not a nationalist, but I think your unfairly demonizing nationalism; just because your a nationalist doesn't mean that you can't care about people outside of your country.
I don't think that what you're describing is nationalism. I think what you're describing is the ability to have empathy for others. When someone is an internationalist, that is not lost, it is just expanded to the rest of the world.
You may care about people outside your country, but almost certainly you care more when something happens to people inside your own country.
This is true, but that is not really displaying nationalism.
Yes, a more moderate form of nationalism is not nearly as bad as extreme nationalism, but why even have nationalism at all? Also, nationalism may not require viewing some people as better than others, but it always involves valuing some people more than others, and implies giving more aid to some people more than others. So in a sense, it is devaluing others.
Catharsis
catch u on the flip scythe
Alright, I used Answers.com on 'nationalism', and here is the result:
It doesn't say that nationalism necessarily means 'only having empathy for things happening in your country'. It means, according to point 1, 'being proud, or interested in, your country', or according to point 2, 'being opposed politically to the collectivisation of nation-states', or according to point 3, 'wanting independence'. If we use your definitions, then yes, internationalism is preferable to nationalism; however, if we use the genuine definition of nationalism, then the two need not be mutually exclusive.
It doesn't say that nationalism necessarily means 'only having empathy for things happening in your country'. It means, according to point 1, 'being proud, or interested in, your country', or according to point 2, 'being opposed politically to the collectivisation of nation-states', or according to point 3, 'wanting independence'. If we use your definitions, then yes, internationalism is preferable to nationalism; however, if we use the genuine definition of nationalism, then the two need not be mutually exclusive.
Godwynn
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