Adjusted UA's for BNW- No New UU's

Olleus · Jun 20, 2013

There's a lot of talk about Germany, as always, and I think the best thing to do would be to boost Great people/specialists. Why? Because German culture and achievements are vast and varied, and this way both the arts, science and engineering side can be represented. Not to mention that there are a lot of famous germans in those field, per capita probably more than any other nation (and I say this as a Frenchman who has lived most of my life in England, so I probably have the opposite bias).

Someone proposed a +1 production to all specialist in the previous page, that would work pretty well. Also good synergy with UUs. Alternatively, have +4 great people point per turn per specialist (rather than +3) might be good too.

Olleus · Jun 20, 2013

For the USA how about:

Manifest Destiny:

Can purchase enemy tiles at the cost of tourism influence in that civ.

Worlds_Crossing · Jun 20, 2013

Lord Olleus said:
For the USA how about:

Manifest Destiny:

Can purchase enemy tiles at the cost of tourism influence in that civ.

I fully support any balanced idea to purchase enemy tiles for America. This is a perfect example; not much gain in the early game, excellent in the mid-game and absolutely deadly in the late-game. You sacrifice a scarce and useful resource to gain another and is perfect for flavor.

VainoValkea · Jun 20, 2013

@Lord Olleus: Agreed fully about Germany, they've done lots of noteworthy stuff beyond warfare. I would personally suggest a trading advantage (because of the Hanseatic League) but cultural/GP ability suits them fine as well because of their influence in philosophy and culture.

Hulking Lummox · Jun 20, 2013

Galgus said:
America: Manifest Destiny+1 from sources of Bananas, Cattle, Deer, Fish, Sheep, and Wheat and +1 from sources of Stone.

Haha this just reminds me of the time I was playing as America with my friends on Multiplayer. I was getting all of these awesome starts with 2-3 sources of bananas and they were getting garbage and wanting to reroll. They accused me of having Bananafest Destiny.

VainoValkea said:
As in cheap labor from neighbors?

Jokes aside, I actually proposed them to get the "Melting pot" culture bonus by having international trade routes with as many different civs as they can, to simulate their culture being shaped by the cultural and ethnical diversity of immigrating people. I may be a bit too fond of suggesting cultural bonuses to civs but that one would actually suit America well.

While I get the idea, isn't this pretty much the same thing as Morocco's UA? What would be the mechanics behind it?

Galgus said:
I'd personally let it pull citizens away based on relative tourism and empire .

That's a good one in theory, and one theory that I do like, but in all honesty it would really screw you over if you were going for domination. Every time you get into a happiness surplus you start gaining citizens, it sounds too frustrating to manage when you don't actually want to gain citizens (I.E. planning to capture a city, or you need that happiness for a golden age). It would be a detriment unless citizen unhappiness was changed.

VainoValkea · Jun 20, 2013

Hulking Lummox said:
While I get the idea, isn't this pretty much the same thing as Morocco's UA? What would be the mechanics behind it?

Oh yeah, indeed it is. The easy way to fix it would be just to give more culture bonus for America, than to Morocco, but that wouldn't be balanced or interesting. The Melting Pot of cultures would be a fascinating theme for an UA, though.

Ulthwithian · Jun 20, 2013

Worlds Crossing: Well, as for my first idea, it wasn't my idea that you started with the promotion, but that you could earn it with experience. The balance point would be at what point you could gain it.

As for my other idea, I'm not sure why you think that this is a bad idea. I find the idea of 'bumrushing' with something that takes 7 turns to take one tile to be... rather amusing. Yes, I could 'cordon off' an enemy if the situations persists, but given that everyone is talking about much more powerful abilities (such as claiming enemy territory) that do the same thing, I'm not sure what the issue is.

Another idea I had:

Manifest Destiny
Cost to enter a Golden Age is reduced by 20%. While in a Golden Age, the cost to purchase tiles with culture or gold is reduced by 80%. +1 sight to all land units.

Or, if you want to make something of a political statement that also works with this idea:

Manifest Destiny
Barbarians may never enter your territory. Other Civilizations' units must pay 1 more movement to enter a tile in your territory. +1 sight to all land units.

The idea here is instead of providing a discount to buying tiles to represent expansionism, give an incentive to spreading your tiles as fast as possible.

Birdism · Jun 20, 2013

Worlds_Crossing said:
I fully support any balanced idea to purchase enemy tiles for America. This is a perfect example; not much gain in the early game, excellent in the mid-game and absolutely deadly in the late-game. You sacrifice a scarce and useful resource to gain another and is perfect for flavor.

Agreed, using Tourism to purchase enemy tiles not only seems balanced, but also makes sense from a flavor point of view, as the enemy civ would "revere" you less and be less inclined to succumb to your culture.

Several days back, I mentioned how the Autocracy opener seems to have been scrapped, while pretty much all the other social policies from Autocracy, Freedom and Order have been recycled in some capacity in the new ideological tenets. Does anybody think that a civ getting an overhaul might get this as a UA? Here are some suggestions:

Mongolia - Mongol Terror
Receive 10 :c5culture:

Culture as plunder for each point of :c5culture:

Culture produced in the captured city. All mounted units have +1 :c5moves:

Movement.

OR

The Huns - Scourge of God
Receive 10 :c5culture:

Culture as plunder for each point of :c5culture:

Culture produced in the captured city. This :c5culture:

Culture is doubled if city is razed. Gain 1 :c5citizen:

Population, :c5happy:

Happiness, :c5production:

Production, :c5science:

Science in your capital for each city razed. Raze Cities at double speed. Cannot build Settlers.

Spoiler :

VainoValkea · Jun 20, 2013

In another thread there was a heated argument about the Greek UA not being about their classical wisdom and philosophy. While the current Greek UA is ok to me, here's an alternative to reflect the influence of prominent Greek thinkers:

The Philosophers' Legacy: Gain :c5culture:

culture when a Great Person is expended.

The big problem would be balancing it to give a decent amount of culture at each point of game (no full policy trees in one go early on, no mere drop in the ocean in the late game). Also, pop culture reference mostly unintentional.

Ulthwithian · Jun 20, 2013

Vaino: How interesting. To use the 'tension' option, you could change it to gaining culture when a non-Artist GP is expended, and science when a non-Scientist/Engineer is expended.

I would think, though, that I would prefer that your Science Specialists produced Culture and your Culture Specialists produced Science.

VainoValkea · Jun 20, 2013

It would make sense, too, as the Greek philosophers' contributions are both science and culture in Civ terms.

Seek · Jun 20, 2013

@Birdism - I think the culture-from-conquer effect was scrapped because one can now plunder Great Works (a more fitting representation).

Your idea for the Huns looks really cool, btw!

Hulking Lummox · Jun 20, 2013

Here's an idea riffing off of your guy's thoughts (haha no love for creating city states as America?)

I'm not sure how to flesh it out as a UA right now but here are some thoughts...

America can attract citizens from other civs if it has greater happiness or tourism output/influence with that civ. This functions just like accumulating followers, but increases your population instead.

Citizens gained in this way do not increase empire unhappiness and provide 1 or 2 tourism per turn.

This way you attract citizens, then they buff your city, then they write home to mom and dad and move them to America. :goodjob:

Seek · Jun 20, 2013

Hulking Lummox said:
Here's an idea riffing off of your guy's thoughts (haha no love for creating city states as America?)

I'm not sure how to flesh it out as a UA right now but here are some thoughts...

America can attract citizens from other civs if it has greater happiness or tourism output/influence with that civ. This functions just like accumulating followers, but increases your population instead.

Citizens gained in this way do not increase empire unhappiness and provide 1 or 2 tourism per turn.

This way you attract citizens, then they buff your city, then they write home to mom and dad and move them to America.

They should affect empire unhappiness. Race relations in America anyone?

Hulking Lummox · Jun 20, 2013

Seek said:
They should affect empire unhappiness. Race relations in America anyone?

True that. As I said above though I would worry about America's happiness being so pitiful at all times that you could never conquer a city or enter a golden age. Now that would be some OCC.

Birdism · Jun 20, 2013

Seek said:
@Birdism - I think the culture-from-conquer effect was scrapped because one can now plunder Great Works (a more fitting representation).

Your idea for the Huns looks really cool, btw!

Thanks for the input! :goodjob:

Can't believe I didn't think about that

Then how about....

The Huns - Scourge of God
Plundered Great Works give double :c5culture:

Culture and Tourism. Gain 1 :c5citizen:

Population, :c5happy:

Happiness, :c5production:

Production, :c5science:

Science,

Culture in your capital for each city razed. :c5razing:

Raze Cities at double speed. Cannot build Settlers.

Note: Since they won't have many slots for great works, they will have an abundance of great works. My idea is that the culture and tourism of the great work would be doubled permanently, so they would become attractive tradeable assets. (the stats would only be able to be doubled once)

Ulthwithian · Jun 20, 2013

Hulking Lummox: If they would go that route (which I think would be quite cool), I think the immigration mechanic should be a replacement for the cityflipping aspect of Tourism.

The only issue with that is that it doesn't address the American issue with the early game.

VainoValkea · Jun 20, 2013

I don't think a huge, powerful capital (from all that razing) is very Hunnic in flavour but you're definitely on the right track when rewarding conquest and razing.

Hulking Lummox · Jun 20, 2013

Ulthwithian said:
Hulking Lummox: If they would go that route (which I think would be quite cool), I think the immigration mechanic should be a replacement for the cityflipping aspect of Tourism.

The only issue with that is that it doesn't address the American issue with the early game.

Okay, one last thought on the citizen attracting America UA: To prevent the snowball of death that vampire leaches everyone in the game if America's happiness and tourism are too high, how about citizens accumulated in that way increase unhappiness by 50% of normal (like India's UA). Having 1 happiness more than a civ could act like 1 pressure to convert them over to you (which could start in the early game). It wouldn't necessarily steal that often but would increase as the game got into ideologies and your tourism can contribute to that pressure in some ratio. I see this as working like some kind of evil Indonesian Candi but a UA. Also, how cool would it be if citizens you got in this way were different colors in the GUI so you could always smirk over your superiority while in the city screen?

VainoValkea said:
I don't think a huge, powerful capital (from all that razing) is very Hunnic in flavour but you're definitely on the right track when rewarding conquest and razing.

Agreed, there should be a little bit of incentive for the Huns keep more cities, since they did wind up taking over a nice little empire. I do really like where that idea is heading though too.

Birdism · Jun 20, 2013

VainoValkea said:
I don't think a huge, powerful capital (from all that razing) is very Hunnic in flavour but you're definitely on the right track when rewarding conquest and razing.

Hmmm, maybe if those bonuses went to the nearest Hunnic city, to emulate the path of their conquering migration. As I mentioned, you can still puppet and annex cities, so it adds a layer of strategic decision making whether they think they need a new city, or if they should buff their city that is closest to hostile territory.

Updated:

The Huns - Scourge of God
Plundered Great Works give double :c5culture:

Culture and Tourism. Gain 1 :c5citizen:

Population, :c5happy:

Happiness, :c5production:

Production, :c5science:

Science,

Culture in your nearest city for each city razed. :c5razing:

Raze Cities at double speed. Cannot build Settlers.

Adjusted UA's for BNW- No New UU's

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Deity

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