Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

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Okay, news on the Chinese front. I didn't think it was possible, and I certainly didn't think it was possible for me, but you can fulfill the first UHV condition on time:

Spoiler :

The last of the medieval triple Civil Service, Music and Paper. Research is the key for this UHV (your cities will be building the Academies/Pagodas slowly no matter what), and it requires intelligent tech trading and use of GS's as well as good micromanagement. Still, I was lucky to get 50% of Calendar cut off by a goody hut, so it's not all that representative.

Annoyingly, the UHV trigger was broken, but with massive chopping and slaving I did make it in time:
Spoiler :



This game required a lot of reloading (not to mess with the RNG, but to avoid stupid decisions and suboptimal MM) and luck (my first goody hut was a scout, which helped to provide useful loot, as well as the already mentioned Calendar boost).
I still wasted some potential, though. The Great Wall wasn't really necessary and cost me a lot of production and forests (I even built it without stone), but what's China without its wall?

All in all, a had everything playing in my favor and still it was pretty close. I don't know if that's the kind of difficulty we should be aiming for on Monarch.
 
Hey, I'm not sure if anyone has talked about this issue already. I'm not an avid gamer so I haven't really tested this out yet, but is anyone else having trouble with building catholic wonders when playing as European civilizations? Catholicism was my state religion and had spread to all my cities yet I still could not build wonders despite the fact I had the right technology and religion. When I check the top 5 cities, it appears that no other European city has any Catholic wonders as well.
 
That's odd. Could you upload a savegame? One save says more than a thousand words :)

Edit: by the way, I totally forgot to mention that the modmod had to minor updates over the last days, mostly fixes, balancing and little changes that didn't warrant their own official "version".

Changelog:
Spoiler :
  • spelling of "Temple of Solomon" corrected
  • excluded Detroit / Fort Détroit from the American spawn area
  • Taoism is now founded by Calendar again
  • removed a bug that prevented you from stopping a great depression by switching away from Capitalism
  • China's first UHV condition now works as intended
  • removed a bug from Phoenicia's unique names
  • lowered China's research costs for classical and ancient era by roughly 10%, to help with their UHV
  • Khmer now spawn at Angkor again (but one tile south of RFC's Angkor and thus still at sea)
  • independent Kyiv spawns in 900 AD with 2 longbowmen
  • courthouses now give a spy slot again
The tech help for China came after my above attempt, so there's still some testing to be done.

Next version 1.5 will mostly consist of an update to the latest version of RFC Epic/Marathon, and thus the latest version of RFC as well.
 
Thank you so much for coming back Leoreth!!!

And apologies if this is due to a noob mistake. I'm still just getting into the game.
 

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Oh, that was fast. Am looking in :)

Edit:
Well, I'll admit, I'm puzzled. You're right, you fulfill all the requirements and still can't build the wonders. So don't worry, it's no mistake on your part. The thing is, even if you lacked the right religion, the wonder should appear in your building screen, only grayed out. The wonder button only disappears completely when the wonder has been built, which according to the top five cities screen didn't happen.

The only reason I can think of is that the wonders have already been built and its city has been razed afterwards (I'm not sure if these wonders are still listed in the world wonders list), but that happening to both Notre Dame and the Sistine Chapel seems to be a stretch.

I was almost convinced that there is some kind of bug, but when I started my own French game, I could build, say, the Theodosian Walls, and after giving myself the appropriate techs Notre Dame and Sistine Chapel as well. So at least your problems not a common occurence.

If you don't mind going the extra mile, I'd ask you to play another game and see if the error is reproducable to find its cause. Because unless I'll stumble upon it myself, I have only some educated guesses to find out what's wrong.

So, it seems it is me who made the mistake here :D
 
I've accomplished the Chinese UHV twice, but the trigger did break. I guess I said that it couldn't be done because I didn't know the right terminology. Maybe it's still reading the Confucian Academy as the final religious building, instead of the UB?
 
Yes, that was the problem. I'm dead sure I've already changed the according lines in Victory.py, so I think I've applied some backup incorrectly, and went back to an older version without knowing. Or I'm just crazy.

Anyway, the currently downloadable version already has it fixed, but I'll add the Victory file here so that you don't have to download the whole modmod for a quick fix. Because of upload constraints, it's Victory.txt, so you have to rename it to Victory.py. It goes into the directory "Mods/RFC Dawn of Civilization/Assets/Python/".

Did you complete the UHV on Monarch? If yes, do you think it's manageable without resorting to high amounts of micromanagement or luck? Oh, and I'm talking about the 3000 BC start all the time here.
 
Your alive!!!! I can play civ again!!!

*recalls search party*

I have also accomplished the chinese UHV without the victory trigger of course. It did require a bit of skill but still doable. I didn't have to goody hut any techs or anything, but you pretty much have to follow a certain tech/build path without diverging too much. I would hate to see this game become to easy though.

With ryhe retiring and your disappearance all at the same time i have been busy working on a conspiracy theory in which all the best mods from civ4 were hired by Steam to make DLC for CIV 5. It's good to see I can take the foil hat off now........... or can I
 
Of course not. But I also don't want to have the game be unforgiving, so that one single mistake screws you up to the point of having to restart.

If you like, redownload the modmod with the 10% tech boost, and look if things become too easy.

Edit to crossedit your crossedit:
Well, I think I would say too much if I told you I was only send to diverge attention from our conspiracy, but I'm not telling you tha... damn.

Seriously, if Steam would really hire me to create DLC for Civ5, I'd sign that deal with the devil :D I'm just not sure if the devil would be happy with that afterwards :p

I won't change over to Civ5 at all, by the way. The game has yet to appeal me, and without Rhye making its version of RFC, there really seems to be no reason.
 
Did you complete the UHV on Monarch? If yes, do you think it's manageable without resorting to high amounts of micromanagement or luck? Oh, and I'm talking about the 3000 BC start all the time here.

Ah, I've completed Monarch UHV on 600 AD, that was stressful enough. 3000 BC though... I don't think it's possible without uber micromanaging and luck.
 
Of course not. But I also don't want to have the game be unforgiving, so that one single mistake screws you up to the point of having to restart.


Well here's my take on that. With regular civ, you have so many options on how to play and how to win. With RFC, you still have those options but you also get the UHVs. To me the UHVs are like a puzzle. Many of the original RFC UHVs could really only be won using a very strict strategy. Figuring out what that strategy, to me, was the game. Granted this is a little easier to deal with for a civ like Babylon, who's UHV can only be won with a very rigid strategy. However, with a small amount of turns to play, it was pretty easy to try out the different variations until you get one that worked.

With China, you have a much longer timeframe, and because of that way more variables to consider. Playing China, for me, took almost three weeks of playing, sometimes rolling two or three starts a day, to figure out the optimal combination of research, builds, city placement, diplomacy, etc that could lead me to victory. There was a lot of frustration, when paths taken lead to dead ends, or when random events ruined what would turn out to be proper paths. In the end, I accomplished my goal, and even though the game was broken and I never got the "reward", it was immensely satisfying.


If you like, redownload the modmod with the 10% tech boost, and look if things become too easy.

ugggh, your going to make me go back to China. Will report back soon.
 
from your stability guide
"Tyranny gives you an additional +20 stability if you are below –60.
Tyranny gives you an additional +30 stability if you are below –60."

methinks a typo
 
Hey :)

First, it's a great mod. I like most of the changes with some exceptions (plagues aren't doing anything anymore).

Some ideas / concerns though:

1) The new territory UHV of Greece; doesn't it shift their builder focus into a military focus at roughly the same time? I guess with all the new cities, they'd have enough production output to sustain their army though. Did their war map get changed so the AI will go to war against egypt, babylon, etc.?

2) What about changing some 'double' UHVs like Ethiopia's 'no european colonies in south africa'. I'm not sure about such a idea; but seeing such... not so great UHVs is idea-fodder.

Another civ in that case would be the Inca or the Mali. The Mali could use some songhai-y spicing up, maybe controlling all of West Africa in X AD. Adding some native cities would probably be a good idea as well.

The Inca could have 'have the greatest new world empire in X AD'. However, I fear it may be too easy against the Maya and the Aztecs; unless you do what's stated in the first post and remove the Maya in favor of Byzantium.

3) I have nothing to back that claim up but I rarely see much effective warring between european states. Or a powerful Mongol state. AIs don't seem to have problems taking independents cities though...

4) The whole set of marble-dependent wonders; wouldn't that make the europeans even stronger and the other civs even less strong? Granted, WW aren't what makes the difference but they can be significant. The marble wonders set is huge, effectively removing a lot of wonders from others.

That said it seems you want to add more wonders.
 
You're right, it's Autocracy that gives +30 if you're below -60.

For the China problem: so I guess the 600 AD is quite doable, while 3000 BC still has its problems? Then increasing their classical tech speed seems to be the right solution compared to lengthening the timeline, which would've made 600 AD too easy.

On UHV philosophy: I agree with you that UHVs are like puzzles and you need to figure out a strategy how to achieve them. But I also think the length of the game needs to be taken into account. Babylonia, Egypt and India (one and a half condition) have very short games, and so every little decision should matter. This is why they rely on micromanagement more than other UHVs.
Given more time, decisions should only become important on a greater scale. I want to avoid that you have to reposition your citizens every turn until 1000 AD to be competetive. That's something for Emperor difficulty.
 
1) The new territory UHV of Greece; doesn't it shift their builder focus into a military focus at roughly the same time? I guess with all the new cities, they'd have enough production output to sustain their army though. Did their war map get changed so the AI will go to war against egypt, babylon, etc.?
Exactly, and I think that's the fun of it. In regular RFC, Greece was one of the easiest UHVs, because you were never pressed on multiple fronts. Teching and wonderbuilding went hand-in-hand and then you had a lot of time to discover Optics. Now you carefully have to balance your production between wonders and phalanxes.

The war map has not been changed; I fear that the Greek AI would fail to even reach its neighbors.

2) What about changing some 'double' UHVs like Ethiopia's 'no european colonies in south africa'. I'm not sure about such a idea; but seeing such... not so great UHVs is idea-fodder.

Another civ in that case would be the Inca or the Mali. The Mali could use some songhai-y spicing up, maybe controlling all of West Africa in X AD. Adding some native cities would probably be a good idea as well.

The Inca could have 'have the greatest new world empire in X AD'. However, I fear it may be too easy against the Maya and the Aztecs; unless you do what's stated in the first post and remove the Maya in favor of Byzantium.
Of course, ideas for more varied and interesting UHV conditions are always welcome. Especially Japan and Russia still need a new one.

There's just one thing I'm not so fond of, it's "control territory X by year Y" where X is a territory that the civ held in year Y. I think we have enough of that already.

3) I have nothing to back that claim up but I rarely see much effective warring between european states. Or a powerful Mongol state. AIs don't seem to have problems taking independents cities though...
That's a problem with RFC itself already. Maybe the update to the latest patch will help this somewhat, because there at least Mongolia and Vikings got some help.

4) The whole set of marble-dependent wonders; wouldn't that make the europeans even stronger and the other civs even less strong? Granted, WW aren't what makes the difference but they can be significant. The marble wonders set is huge, effectively removing a lot of wonders from others.

That said it seems you want to add more wonders.
Right, but most wonders end up in Europe anyway. I just wanted to get rid of oddities like Chinese Pyramids, which happened quite often. Also, I wanted to prohibit Chinese or Japanese players from relying on wonders like GL or Colossus for their economy.

I'd really like to compensate the other regions with more appropriate wonders, but sadly both my lacking knowledge about these areas and the available art make that difficult.
 
I just downloaded it and am about to play it right now, but this looks like a great mod. I like the idea of keping the same basic principals of RFC with minor tweaks to add more historical value.

Just an idea to throw out there, and I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but having the Phoneian's capital move to Carthage (requiring Phonecia to settle there) at about 550 BC, to show the decline of Phonecia and the rise of Carthage as a Western Mediterranean powerhouse. When the capital moved, the leader could change to Dido, and their name could switch from something dealing with Phonecia to something along the lines of "Carthaginian Empire".
 
Well, yeah, the Phoenicians really require some guidance. At the moment, they only stagnate or expand to Jerusalem/Hattusas.
 
Update: the upgrade to the latest version of RFCMarathon is complete, and will be uploaded soon(ish). I'm only playing a few games and run some America starts, just to catch all obvious errors.
 
After reading back in the thread in an effort to remember what my chinese strategy was I came across another bug that I had come across earlier and made note of. It involved Arabia and my diplomacy screen going wonky. The details are on page 20 of this thread.
 
The wonder error I had earlier seemed just confined to that one game. I played two more games as the French and the wonders worked well.

Not sure how difficult these ideas are the implement and not sure if they'd make it in time for the next update, but

Would it be possible to make a special type of neutral city that once captured is automatically razed? That way we can put a weak special neutral cities in places such as in southern Spain to represent Moors/Berbers and in northern Britain to represent the Scots without severely limiting city placement choice for players.

It seems like the Arabs and Islam never spreads much throughout the Maghreb. Also the Turks usually are unable to overtake the Arabs as the predominant Islamic power as well. Is there some way to buff the starts of both Arabs and Turks somehow and increase the likelihood they take over North Africa?

I know this has been asked a lot, but is there any way to make crusades happen? Maybe some quest or special event that involves the holding Jerusalem at some certain date, increase animosity between Islamic and European Christian states, and/or give an apostolic palace option to declare a crusade against whoever controls Jerusalem?

Lastly, with a distinction between Catholicism and Protestantism, it might make more sense to spawn the US with a Protestant missionary or no missionary at all?

Thanks. Your mod's amazing already Leoreth, and these are just tiny suggestions that you shouldn't feel compelled to make before your next update. I have no modding experience whatsoever so I'm not sure how doable these things are.
 
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