Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

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To be honest, I'm currently waiting how Jarkov's method of adding new civs works out. When there are no major problems, I could even imagine to only resort to respawns when it makes sense. Civilizations like Prussia could then enter the game without using the slot of a completely unrelated civ (like Maya). Not sure about Byzantium currently - historically they would make sense as a Greece respawn, but it would lead to other problems: Greece is not guaranteed to collapse early enough, and currently the color change on civ switch does not work, so Greece-respawned-as-Byzantium stays light blue.
 
Hmmm... What about Byzantium respawning as Rome ? the colour would be all right.
 
Hmmm... What about Byzantium respawning as Rome ? the colour would be all right.

Because the Byzantines spoke Greek and it split in 395 CE because the Empire was too Big, therefore it shouldn't be a Roman Respawn
 
That, and the fact that there's still Italy. :D
 
A Prussia to counter the current Austrian dominated HRE would indeed be interesting. Would it spawn in the early 16th century or later on when it rose to prominence?
 
You could "guarentee" that the Greeks die... do an "all out war" script to the Roman AI so they attack the Greeks! Then have the Byzantine's respawn. We don't care about the light blue THAT MUCH... Besides, if the Greeks are still alive, why would there need to be a respawn?

Duh, answered my own question... because the greeks (by then) will be stagnant...

Give the Greek AI a greater chance of collapsing after a certain date?

Besides, I've seen the Romans collaps 2 turns before the Italians spawned in a game (and it was amazing).
 
Or have it so that Byzantines only falls under certain conditions (like Greece being controlled by Rome). Then you only have to auto-kill Greece if the human player picks Byzantium.
 
A Prussia to counter the current Austrian dominated HRE would indeed be interesting. Would it spawn in the early 16th century or later on when it rose to prominence?
I thought about 1701, when Prince-Elector Frederick III of Brandenburg was crowned King of Prussia. Since they would "inherit" the current German UHV, a later start is also more interesting because you have less time for all those conquests, which feels more true to history (rather than conquering France and Russia in the Middle Ages).
 
With the possibility of setting civs to wage "total war", and the fact that players have demonstrated that it is entirely possible to recreate the Roman empire, even at its greatest extent, can we reexamine the Roman UHV and how the Byzantine civ would work out?

Best possible case for 3000BC:

Romans get 2 moderate UHVs, and 1 really, really hard UHV. Greeks get 2 moderate UHVs and 1 really, really hard UHV.

Between Romans and Greeks, whichever civ controls the city Byzantium in the year 330AD gets their palace automatically moved there, a small defensive army spawned in the city, their dynamic civ name changed to Byzantine-ish names, leaderhead changed to Justinian, and access to victory from Byzantine UHVs. (meaning they can win by fulfilling their original 3 UHVs or by fulfilling the 3 Byantine UHVs).

If that doesn't work out, have Roman fight Greece as a total war, then have the Byzantines replace the Romans like how Italy currently replace the Romans.
 
I think that if the player is Rome and the Byzantines break away the player should have the options of:
a) Switching to Byzantium
b) Fighting Byzantium on a relatively equal footing treating it as a civil war
c) Accepting and Befriending Byzantium possibly with a Diplomacy bonus for, say, 'Shared Cultural Heritage' or something

The AI should IMHO choose b over c.

Other than this I trust Leoreths instincts and have no further suggestions.
 
While the Greece/Byzantium situation isn't completely sorted out, I don't plan to artificially link them to Rome in any event-driven way. America isn't related in any special way to England as well, for example.

I do plan to shift Rome's ambitions more to the east, both AI and UHV wise, and maybe the conflict with Byzantium arises automatically once Rome owns Greece regularly. I won't include an extra difficult "complete Roman Empire" UHV though.
 
Fall From Heaven has an awards system where you get awards for completing certain things during a game, for example killing a dragon and so on. Potentially instead of adding extra hard UHV's you could create awards for completing certain achievements in the game. For example, recreating the Roman Empire.
 
Yeah, that would be fun ... at least we could implement this with civ specific quests, like Luko does with the UHQs in his modmod.
 
how hard would it be to add a tooltip that would indicate the name of a city that would be founded on any given plot? This might be a very helpful addition and would not be that unrealistic as any major city is usually founded on or is an expansion of a village of the same name.

Also, I've been busy playing SoI so I have missed quite a few of your interim updates. I am playing a game as Italy right now (600 ad) and i am thoroughly impressed. I'm not sure if it is because of your changes or just luck, but the world generated for this game is amazing. The city layout as well as the civ borders is much more realistic and interesting and there is so much war, to the point where i am getting GG birth announcements every other turn. I started with a viking Denmark, which was cool to see, and it seems like affairs in Europe are much more interesting because of that and the inclusion of Italy. As well, the longswordsman? where did this come from? very cool. Also the UP for Italy is exactly what I wanted to see. The early part of this game consisted of researching needed techs for the UHV using great people with names of some of the greatest figures in our history. Sid Meier would be proud.

Couple of questions/suggestions about Italy. First off, are people having a hard time getting to education first? I got to it pretty quick using a GS but was not first. Nobody i had contact with had it either so I'm thinking China got it. Is this a common problem? If so maybe the changes to mongols I have read about in this forum might help that. Also what are people's experiences/comments about Italy in the 3000bc vs the 600 ad start. Are some of the cool things I am seeing in this game as far as the layout of Europe a result of the 600 ad start? Is my difficulty getting to education first in any way related to this start?
 
Thanks for your positive feedback! :)

The longswordsman is a simple replacement for the rather unhistoric maceman. It's graphics are part of BtS (the Charlemagne scenario uses it).

On the Italian UP, the only thing that vexes me currently is that there are so few Renaissance wonders they can get their hands on before the UP expires ...

I don't know if you were lucky with your game, but I also got the feeling the flow of history got a lot more realistic lately (and I can't even pin down which change exactly caused that). But I'd still like to hear your observation about that.

On Italy's Education problem: from what I've heard, it's often China who gets in the way. They get killed by Mongolia more often now, however, and I've also lowered their probability to start researching it in my current version.
 
would it be possible to add new wonders that have the same tech prerequisite as existing wonders, but different religious prereqs. That way you could add christian wonders to mirror the islamic ones and vice versa. This is one way to introduce more renaissance/medeival wonders. As well, why do wonders always have to be buildings? Great works of art such as Dante's Inferno or The Mona Lisa are wonders as well.
 
i tried a 3000 bc start to play Italy, started as Inca waited three turns and nothing happened. Can you only play Italy on 600ad?

Also, i understand that the great works are represented in game, however, if you wanted to create more renaissance wonders, this would be the way to do it. It wouldn't be without president in the game either i.e. the heroic epic and national epic.

On that thought, would it be possible to dynamically name those two wonders to represent actual heroic or national epics i.e. Beowulf for the English or the Illiad for the Greeks

Also, i just thought of an addendum to my earlier idea. If you could make these great works be like relics from SoI. Then we could represent a common event in history, in which conquerors take pieces of their conquests culture as a trophy, and gain the benefits of their conquests knowledge. This could help civs like the mongols, who are conquerors, not fall behind their advanced neighbours.
 
While the Greece/Byzantium situation isn't completely sorted out, I don't plan to artificially link them to Rome in any event-driven way. America isn't related in any special way to England as well, for example.


I think for America and England, both civs existed as distinctively separate nations for over 200 hundred years and throughout multiple important conflicts throughout history (Revolutionary War, WWI, WWII, and the Cold War most notably).

The Western Roman Empire (if you minus the years under the tetrarchy) on the other hand barely coexisted with the Eastern Roman Empire for over 100 years before it collapsed.


I do plan to shift Rome's ambitions more to the east, both AI and UHV wise, and maybe the conflict with Byzantium arises automatically once Rome owns Greece regularly. I won't include an extra difficult "complete Roman Empire" UHV though.
What about a combination of
-Making Romans get an even slightly higher production boost and/or decreasing cost of legions
-Including an easier-to-achieve "complete Roman Empire" UHV, for instance, only needing to control at least 1 city in France, 1 city in Spain, 1 city in Great Britain, 2 cities in Northern Africa, 2 cities in Asia, 2 cities in Balkans/Eastern Europe (Constantinople would count both as city in Asia and city in Balkans/Eastern Europe).
-Help out AI to emulate Roman Empire by having "total war"on Greece and Carthage, spawn some units in Levant, spawn a settler+defender in London and give an x% chance to flip cities around Mediterranean to Rome (if not human player controlled).


Is there also a way to make Spain, France, Balkans, Turkey, the Levant, Egypt, and North Africa all be considered part of one continent (for combat purposes) from 500BC to 200AD?


BTW, when are you planning to work on your combat update? This mod's looking amazing already, but I'm still really looking forward to revamping the combat system.
 
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