My First RI Experience

illusionpj

Chieftain
Joined
Feb 21, 2015
Messages
3
I play Civ games and mods since the civ ever made so I'm a veteran player. I played most of the big mods of civ4 (fall from Heaven and modmods, C2C, Rise of mankind etc..) and I tried for the first time this mod and I felt writing because I think that compare to all the others, this mod is touching perfection.

Pros
a) Unpredictable AI, enjoyed the enemy trying to break my defenses in several different spots and in many cases acted like a human. So I recognize the mastermind behind this.

b) Attention to detail. I noticed that everything was calculated properly and methodically. Pretty professional work.

c) Good diplomacy and resource management (that they need the buildings to give bonus). Logistic problems is also a good idea :goodjob: (if it was me, I would make distance from borders count too on that so that the further you go, the harder).

d) Fast turns even in large maps.

I was discovering excited the game unfolding while I was playing randomly with the Egyptians in Standard (or large map I'm not sure) RI world map, feeling all the time that the rivals could attack any moment (and actually they did and very dangerously). I feel also to mention some parts that in my opinion could improve and make the game even better.

Cons

a) Colonization... one of my favorite parts in civ games is when I finally can travel ocean with ships and explore and colonize the new world first. In RI this didn't happen and it was a disappointment. I run everything well, build the first exploration ship (don't remember its name, it was Egyptian :mischief: ) and reach America just to find Americans (the civilization) controlling almost all the continent. I exchanged map with them and in one sec all the rest undiscovered world was revealed, so... no exploration and no colonization. If they were just some wild natives with bows and spears, I guess I could conquer them but no, they were advanced like us in the old world and first in score. So in matters of realism the game lost its ground there.
My suggestion for the new world, if not empty of civs, at least 2-3 of them (so that you can use one against the other as how it really happened) and one era behind if possible.

b) Upgrade cost. I had a few experienced troops and I realize that the cost to upgrade them was so high that I never did (sometimes even more than 1000!! :eek: )
I think that lower the cost would let me keep more troops upgrading through eras reaching them some high promotions that I never saw in this game. Realistically when I make 30-50 gold per turn and one unit alone needs 1000 gold to upgrade, it's weird... the whole empire will save money for many years just to give new weapons to that unit that might die in the next battle.

I played and had a stressful cultured victory worth taking, 4th in score, surrounded by huge powers that could crush me any moment and diplomacy kept me "alive" just to steal the victory through their hands in the early modern age. So I didn't experience the game till the end but so far I would give 9.5/10 for its performance (almost perfect :) ) I enjoyed it and thank you for building such a masterpiece :goodjob:

If you want my opinion about how to make it even better, I think that the Surround and Destroy mod would be an appropriate addition as in realistic battles, surrounding an enemy actually is a tactical victory. Still, you should only add it if you could make the AI high as it is now (Cause I see in other mods the AI let me surrounding its troops and slaughter them pretty easy so the challenge was lost).

The Revolution could be an addition too, but still even this one is not perfect, as far small colonies tend to rebel all the time like they have an infinitive amount of weapons and men, so this needs a bit of attention in matters of realism.

Other suggestions: a) Morale.. losing units in a battle could affect the morale of the rest living troops (-5 strength or -1 first strike...)
b) Stricter zone of control around units, cities and forts. Also the navy will be more valuable like this cause they won't be able to pass next to the warships to upload their troops near the city. If you want a d-day, have naval superiority.
c) Rebellions when using far oil, metal and timber resources (local people that rise against corporations using and polluting their soil).

Apart of that, RI is officially my favorite real world mod of Civ 4 and I'm going to keep playing it for more time than I expected. I hope you 'll keep working on it.
 
a) Colonization... one of my favorite parts in civ games is when I finally can travel ocean with ships and explore and colonize the new world first. In RI this didn't happen and it was a disappointment. I run everything well, build the first exploration ship (don't remember its name, it was Egyptian :mischief: ) and reach America just to find Americans (the civilization) controlling almost all the continent. I exchanged map with them and in one sec all the rest undiscovered world was revealed, so... no exploration and no colonization. If they were just some wild natives with bows and spears, I guess I could conquer them but no, they were advanced like us in the old world and first in score. So in matters of realism the game lost its ground there.
My suggestion for the new world, if not empty of civs, at least 2-3 of them (so that you can use one against the other as how it really happened) and one era behind if possible.

b) Upgrade cost. I had a few experienced troops and I realize that the cost to upgrade them was so high that I never did (sometimes even more than 1000!! :eek: )
I think that lower the cost would let me keep more troops upgrading through eras reaching them some high promotions that I never saw in this game. Realistically when I make 30-50 gold per turn and one unit alone needs 1000 gold to upgrade, it's weird... the whole empire will save money for many years just to give new weapons to that unit that might die in the next battle.

@a) There are mapscripts that create Old World Starts, so you have a continent to colonize. That means goodbye to World maps but Civ is boring on World Maps anyway IMO.

@b) I think there is a fix in the works for this. Cant find the post but I remember a line in the ongoing RI megathread about said topic.
 
@a) There are mapscripts that create Old World Starts, so you have a continent to colonize. That means goodbye to World maps but Civ is boring on World Maps anyway IMO.

@b) I think there is a fix in the works for this. Cant find the post but I remember a line in the ongoing RI megathread about said topic.

a) I like playing the World maps (history repeated etc). I guess I could just customize which civs I want the map have at the custom game option so avoiding the american continent civs would let the continent empty. I just usually keep it all Random (even my civ!) just because I like surprises :egypt:

b) If anyone knows where this fix is, please let me know cause I tried to find it and I can't. I play the 3.3 version..
 
a)
b) If anyone knows where this fix is, please let me know cause I tried to find it and I can't. I play the 3.3 version..

For 3.3 I think this should work, go to:

Realism Invictus --> Assets --> XML --> Units --> CIV4UnitClassInfos

Open the file with notepad, search for the tag <iInstanceCostModifier>. Set the value to 0 for each unit class.

Or you could set it lower than current value, if you want to preserve the mechanic. It makes units cost more for each unit that already exists. In SVN versions made after 3.3 it also counts such a thing as unit role, but is overall not as insanely costly (but still fairly high). The mechanic is still being refined, I think. (The main reason for it is that without it, the AI keeps building humongous stacks of units and this starts to eat at the performance eventually.)
 
For 3.3 I think this should work, go to:

Realism Invictus --> Assets --> XML --> Units --> CIV4UnitClassInfos

Open the file with notepad, search for the tag <iInstanceCostModifier>. Set the value to 0 for each unit class.

Or you could set it lower than current value, if you want to preserve the mechanic. It makes units cost more for each unit that already exists. In SVN versions made after 3.3 it also counts such a thing as unit role, but is overall not as insanely costly (but still fairly high). The mechanic is still being refined, I think. (The main reason for it is that without it, the AI keeps building humongous stacks of units and this starts to eat at the performance eventually.)

Found it! Ok, I started change it. Thanks. I hope it won't start eating my performance really, I'll keep the original somewhere just in case.
 
Thought I'd give a couple of comments from dev perspective.

a) Colonization... one of my favorite parts in civ games is when I finally can travel ocean with ships and explore and colonize the new world first. In RI this didn't happen and it was a disappointment. I run everything well, build the first exploration ship (don't remember its name, it was Egyptian :mischief: ) and reach America just to find Americans (the civilization) controlling almost all the continent. I exchanged map with them and in one sec all the rest undiscovered world was revealed, so... no exploration and no colonization. If they were just some wild natives with bows and spears, I guess I could conquer them but no, they were advanced like us in the old world and first in score. So in matters of realism the game lost its ground there.
My suggestion for the new world, if not empty of civs, at least 2-3 of them (so that you can use one against the other as how it really happened) and one era behind if possible.

The world maps that we have actually should have pre-placed native american civs in the New World, apart from Aztecs, Mayans and Incas that are fully playable. The native american civs should be "natives with bows and spears" by the time you reach them. The American civ is not pre-placed in any of the two maps that we have bundled in 3.3.

b) Upgrade cost. I had a few experienced troops and I realize that the cost to upgrade them was so high that I never did (sometimes even more than 1000!! :eek: )
I think that lower the cost would let me keep more troops upgrading through eras reaching them some high promotions that I never saw in this game. Realistically when I make 30-50 gold per turn and one unit alone needs 1000 gold to upgrade, it's weird... the whole empire will save money for many years just to give new weapons to that unit that might die in the next battle.

Yeah, we know it was quite a mess in 3.3. We already fixed that and in the next version the upgrade costs will be much more tame. Anyone willing to have that right now can try to download our SVN version.

I played and had a stressful cultured victory worth taking, 4th in score, surrounded by huge powers that could crush me any moment and diplomacy kept me "alive" just to steal the victory through their hands in the early modern age. So I didn't experience the game till the end but so far I would give 9.5/10 for its performance (almost perfect :) ) I enjoyed it and thank you for building such a masterpiece :goodjob:

If you want my opinion about how to make it even better, I think that the Surround and Destroy mod would be an appropriate addition as in realistic battles, surrounding an enemy actually is a tactical victory. Still, you should only add it if you could make the AI high as it is now (Cause I see in other mods the AI let me surrounding its troops and slaughter them pretty easy so the challenge was lost).

As you can probably guess, you have pinpointed the reason why most ambitious ideas are currently out of RI. We have a strict policy of adding only the stuff that AI can make good use of.

The Revolution could be an addition too, but still even this one is not perfect, as far small colonies tend to rebel all the time like they have an infinitive amount of weapons and men, so this needs a bit of attention in matters of realism.

This is probably the most often requested thing in our mod. While we are trying to implement that in some way, realistically it's been years it has been requested first, so you see what the chances of that happening any time soon are. :mischief:

Other suggestions: a) Morale.. losing units in a battle could affect the morale of the rest living troops (-5 strength or -1 first strike...)
b) Stricter zone of control around units, cities and forts. Also the navy will be more valuable like this cause they won't be able to pass next to the warships to upload their troops near the city. If you want a d-day, have naval superiority.
c) Rebellions when using far oil, metal and timber resources (local people that rise against corporations using and polluting their soil).

Apart of that, RI is officially my favorite real world mod of Civ 4 and I'm going to keep playing it for more time than I expected. I hope you 'll keep working on it.

Thanks for the kind words! I must say that I've considered all of those suggestions myself at some points in time, but ultimately, to implement any of those in a proper way would require so much effort as to make a new mod from scratch.
 
The native american civs should be "natives with bows and spears" by the time you reach them.

What is the best strategy to deal with City Garrison III Tribal Forts in Americas then?

Btw I also made a switch from other mods to RI a few months ago, still I am wondering how complex the mod is :goodjob:

One thing I noticed while playing World maps - Southern China always expands to Indias and Southeast Asia, literally annihilating every civ in its way in the process, is there something that can be done to prevence this?

Thanks to all the RI team for perfect work.
 
What is the best strategy to deal with City Garrison III Tribal Forts in Americas then?

Tribal forts are vulnerable to gunpowder units. So gunpowder units trained for city attack.

One thing I noticed while playing World maps - Southern China always expands to Indias and Southeast Asia, literally annihilating every civ in its way in the process, is there something that can be done to prevence this?

I don't think I'm seeing something like this consistently. If one civ consistently overperforms, we nerf its world map start. But South China gets obliterated just as often in my experience.
 
On Earth Evolution, the only civilizations which consistently suck are the Greeks and the Romans, ironically. The Greeks suck if the have so much as a single neighbor. Poland and Russia both usually do really good. The Austronesians usually do poorly, except when lead by Sultan Agung- then they colonize all of Australian and Indonesia, especially at later starts.
 
On Earth Evolution, the only civilizations which consistently suck are the Greeks and the Romans, ironically. The Greeks suck if the have so much as a single neighbor. Poland and Russia both usually do really good. The Austronesians usually do poorly, except when lead by Sultan Agung- then they colonize all of Australian and Indonesia, especially at later starts.

Yeah, I noticed that Greeks and Romans also usually perform poorly on RI world maps as well. I wonder about the reason for that... As for Austronesians, I have been trying for a long while to make them colonize properly - I have no idea why they don't.
 
One game I played with Sultan Agung on Earth Evolution, which started at the industrial era. He actually expanded, and took over almost all of Indonesia, Australia, and parts of east Asia, and was a superpower for most of the game. I think the problem is is that there is NO natural production whatsoever on the home island. This doesn't matter at all in the industrial era because you can always have a lot of craftsmen. Sultan Agung also has the legislator trait, which gives cities +1 hammer, which may have made a difference.
 
I think I actually solved the Austronesian passiveness problem and will include the updated world maps in the next revision. It was surprisingly the exact opposite - their starting spot was too safe and sweet for them to expand. Giving them a harsher start ironically results in much better performance.
 
Huh. Would have expected adding some production would have fixed the problem.
 
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