SGOTM 13 - TNT thread

Keath · Feb 21, 2011

I also have been trying out the save. This is great stuff! A couple of things I've learned are:
1. You can only grow to size 3 without clam or corn before unhealthy.
2. If you settle the plains hill, you are unhealthy at 3 - no forest health.
3. A worker will have little to do after a few roads, mine(s) and farm.
4. Therefore you can build Stonehenge without Sailing or a worker.

From either SIP or corn, research Mysticism while building a warrior. Then build Stonehenge with pop3. Stonehenge gives us an early border expansion for new cities and because of our charisma,

we get a happy from the monument, too.

Myst puts us on the road to the Oracle and Colossus. Of course we'll not get a religion so Myst/Fish/Min/BW/Sail and then Pottery sets us up for a workboat spam and then slavery for a settler spam. If we have pottery, a cottage on the corn, maybe?

Another idea is to forget about early wonders and build Warr/Wb/Wb/Wb and send them all to explore. When they get back, put out the nets for the clams. Then a worker and settle the first settler on the island, after Sailing build a galley or two and away we go. We'll need lots of boats.

My tests showed that religions go about 3600bc. Of course the real save might be different.

Keath · Feb 21, 2011

Other food for thought:

Is anyone familiar with the games that DS (Dynamic Spirit) builds?
-- maybe he has a particular style or a favourite situation he likes
-- does he like to recreate an accurate historic scenario?
-- maybe by playing his games we'd get a handle on how he likes to build them

"With this very particular historic scenario - the exile to Elba - we are guided to the Sixth coalition: In the War of the Sixth Coalition (18131814), a coalition of Austria, Prussia, Russia, the United Kingdom, Sweden, Spain and a number of German States finally defeated France and drove Napoleon Bonaparte into exile on Elba."
...Wikipedia

In SGOTM 12 some players figured out who the competition would be by realizing that all the AI opposition would be nuclear powers. Nice thinking. So any thoughts as to who might be our neighbours? It also says that DS took some 'artistic liberty' which probably means Montezuma. :eek:

Any guesses?

Windfury · Feb 21, 2011

I'm pretty sure on the main page of the SGOTM it says that our opponents are 6 other Euro Civs so that would be:
"Opponents: 6 European AIs." - quoted from the main page

England
Spain
Portugal
Germany
Dutch
Russia

at least they would be my guesses, other semi plausible options are Greece, Rome, Celts, Vikings and the Holy Roman Empire. (possibly the Ottomans as well but I doubt it).

So the real speculation could be is which leaders of those Civs with options do we get? or should we try to figure out which leaders for those Civs that were closest to Napoleon's time?

trucha · Feb 22, 2011

Hey guys, I've been looking around for some reference materials, not sure how much help they'll be, but here's a few things:

-Reference Chart: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/806101/Civ/Civ4 BTS317 Reference Charts.xls
- handy for quick reference for basically everything. Beaker/hammer requirements especially for the beginning could be handy as we decide what to research/build. Another cool thing here is the detailed breakdown of leaders. Assuming those are normal, we can see which leaders will be more likely to like us, who will likely not likely not like each other, etc. Could be helpful for planning diplomacy.

- City Planning Chart - http://dl.dropbox.com/u/806101/Civ/City Planner Eklabiaan v0.8.1.xls
- nice excel sheet for planning city location. I have put in values for settling in place and settling on corn. After those there is a tab with basic improvements (fishing boats/mines) to see where we will be with those things.

2metraninja · Feb 22, 2011

Man, I just tried the City Planning Chart and I felt so dumb. I guess I need another University degree to actually understand it and make it works

Now seriously - Once I manage it, I am sure this tool will be very usefull in this game and in any further games. Thanks.

2metraninja · Feb 22, 2011

OK, I got it

Not too handy with those manually typing data, can give some numbers, but still have a lot of unknown factors.

fizbankovi · Feb 22, 2011

A good opening would be starting on a warior till fishing, and then going for wb. U will c then, that both extras are quite useless in this senario. Whats the earliest date u can hook up 2 clams depending on settle pos.?

Keath · Feb 22, 2011

AlanH has given us until Thursday night to decide on a team name. Over the next days, we can debate the pros and cons of each suggestion. The votes should be in by 22:30 GMT Thursday, Feb 24 -- that's 5:30 pm EST, 2:30 pm PST. If everyone is happy with that, here is the list:

1. The Ninjas
2. TNT - The Ninja Team -
3. TNT
4. Blue Sun Corporation -- interesting, Windfury, tell us more...
5. Biebers Fanclub
6. The (adj) Ninjas -- enKage - what '(adj)' did you have in mind? :mischief:

7. - any new names? -- last chance.

Discuss, debate, vote Thursday.....

dima42 · Feb 22, 2011

I vote for TNT.

I think barracks until workboat should be considered. I'll let you guys know once I play some test games.

Keath · Feb 22, 2011

Windfury said:
I'm pretty sure on the main page of the SGOTM it says that our opponents are 6 other Euro Civs so that would be:
"Opponents: 6 European AIs." - quoted from the main page

England
Spain
Portugal
Germany
Dutch
Russia

at least they would be my guesses, other semi plausible options are Greece, Rome, Celts, Vikings and the Holy Roman Empire. (possibly the Ottomans as well but I doubt it).

So the real speculation could be is which leaders of those Civs with options do we get? or should we try to figure out which leaders for those Civs that were closest to Napoleon's time?

Nice catch, Windfury, this is a good starting point to consider who DS might have chosen as our, ahem, victims. :lol:

It might be worth a little virtual ink to see if we can brainstorm who our competition might be. We might find out soon in the real game but then again we might be truly isolated.

fizbankovi, according to the Maintenance Thread, huts and events are off. Can we change that in World Builder? If not, could you update a new test save?

While talking about WB, is it possible to easily change the AI in the test game? In your test game, which is really great, by the way, :clap:

I've met the Inca and the Dutch, so far. I'd bet Willem is in the real game, maybe even the owner of the GLH. Whoever has this wonder will be our favourite target, right? So can you give the GLH to an AI?
-keath

2metraninja · Feb 22, 2011

The Ninjas

Keath · Feb 22, 2011

The Maintenance Thread has been updated to have huts and events off and also NO VASSAL STATES.

@trucha, nice find on the reference materials.

The Reference Chart will be great but the City Planner requires macros and my Mac version of Excel 2008 doesn't do macros.

But what a piece of work this is!! Wow :eek:

Thanks!

Is there much difference between vs. 3.17 and 3.19?

Windfury · Feb 22, 2011

Blue Sun Corporation is from Firefly one of my favorite TV shows, basically an evil combination of Coca-cola, Microsoft and Wal-mart who were the shadowy power over the government. But I'd be fine with just TNT to allow it to stand for what we'd like it to, either The Ninja Team or The New Team or just straight up Dynamite

As for the opponents I've done some research and here are my guesses:
England - Victoria was alive the closest to Napoleon by a wide margin
Spain - Isabella (No choice)
Portugal - Joao II (No choice)
Germany - Could be either.. my feeling is it will be Frederick as he was closest but not by much so it's a tossup.
Dutch - Wilhelm (No choice)
Russia - Catherine is my guess here as she was alive closest to Napoleon's time

fizbankovi · Feb 22, 2011

no vassals i already added. its the msot important setting of the game, more on that letter.

on settling, and mm, i think i have found the optimum start...

3 WB, LH, Granery next turn, and scouting WB in 3 turns, Worker ready and no chops used, by 2400, also using the "slowest" postion, (SIP) i am happy to look at any suggestions how to beat this...

i will write more on this, but way too tired now, just got back from work 20 min ago. (23:38 here..)

fizbankovi · Feb 22, 2011

ohh, and worker ready,a nd already farmed corn...

(ofc i know there will be a copper in the mine 3 east, and i will be kicking my self in the butt, but i love this opening.

fizbankovi · Feb 22, 2011

Team name:

My vote on the existing ones:

TNT

my suggestion:

Yellow Sun

this has been my "clan" since SC 1, in quake, in SC 2, WC 3, and in soccer, Basketball, and anything i did so far. Its not realy a clan name, but the name of a team consisting of my closest friends i used to do everything with. The name itself mocks the whole [adj] [important word] kind of clan names, and it is supposed to be redundent... also, this might be a good reason for me to go on board with the blue sun corporation...

tell us more.

TNT is a realy nifty name. Can stand for so much, and still so simple. Kinda cool. (for me it is forever dinamite)

Keath · Feb 22, 2011

Updated vote list:
1. The Ninjas
2. TNT - The Ninja Team -
3. TNT
4. Blue Sun Corporation
5. Biebers Fanclub
6. The (adj) Ninjas -- enKage - what '(adj)' did you have in mind? :mischief:

7. Yellow Sun

Windfury, this show you mention sounds like a riot. When/where is it on?

fizbankovi · Feb 22, 2011

i guess what im trieing to say that the natural starting postion is realy strong. moving the settler would only make sense if it would sinificantly speed up the growth and build time of our capitol in the early stages. which dont seem to see. My try at Plains hill wasa total disaster, and on the corn i can only get a very slight advantage. giving up this 4 food resourse capitol needs a very good reason.

in the mid to late game we can dicide to go:
globe+ne for gpp farm to dubble bulb education and astronomy, and go gor a rifling from liberalism. to draft rifles.
or maybie we only bulb education, and get nationalism from liberalism. he we can go for drafted + slaved macemen + trebuthets.

depending on how much land we will have available to settle, and how well we can controll the tech race.

a lot of land to settle: more cities to develop, means later war
less land to settle : earlier war

about the stonhenge: can u post a screeny, or a save where u built it? to count in how much we have to sacrifece for it?

dima42 · Feb 22, 2011

Just some early benchmarks:

I used IW as overflow tech just for measuring beakers. Research path is pretty obviously Fishing -> Mining -> Sailing -> BW, with some exchanges of Mining/Sailing if we build lighthouse before worker x1 (in some variants of settle on corn starts only).

Settle on PH, worker -> wbx2 -> lighthouse -> galley (whip 1-pop into settler), settler (2-pop whip):

Orleans founded 2375 BC. Paris at size 4 (healthy cap 4, happy cap 6 but two slavery unhappiness), 82/468 on IW. 20/45 in Paris on WB (for Orleans), (then paris presumably produces another settler while waiting for happy cap to increase).

Settle on Corn, barracks (while growing) -> wbx2 -> lighthouse -> worker -> galley -> settler:

Orleans founded 2325 BC (but a turn farther from here, so really only 1 turn difference). 232/468 on IW. 17/45 on wb, 12/75 on barracks. Paris at size 3. (healthy cap 5, happy cap 4).

Just testing things out without slavery:

Spoiler :

Windfury · Feb 22, 2011

Keath, the show I mentioned 'Firefly' is a rather old Sci-Fi show that was actually only on for 14 episodes, it was killed way before it's time. Also Blue Sun in it is a semi-obscure reference from it as they didn't really get a chance to develop it fully.

IMDB link to Firefly: Firefly

Anyway as to the start I like the SIP option and getting some Work Boats out asap, but I don't have anything to back that up other than a gut feeling that I don't want to leave that 2 tile island to our west outside of our BFC.

SGOTM 13 - TNT thread

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