Effectively only allowed one great person type

ricenoodle · Aug 16, 2012

I dunno why I didn't notice this before (prolly because I never really tried great people strategies before), but recently, when I tried playing as Bablyon, I noticed that that every time you get a great person, the cost for the next great person goes up ACROSS THE BOARD or all types!!!

Is there any reason as to why this was done? I understand that with faith purchases, the cost of each subsequent GP goes up after you do the buy to prevent you from faith spamming. However, this only applies to each individual GP type, so buying that great merchant will not increase the faith cost of that great artist.

Was fireaxis intentionally trying to limit us to playing for one great person type?

Kwami · Aug 16, 2012

I get multiple types of Great People in nearly every game that I play. I don't see why you think you're limited to only one type.

Hammer Rabbi · Aug 16, 2012

well, it was quite abusive in vanilla so not only the costs go up but many Great People have been nerfed since. it is more of a balance mechanic now, maybe so as not to supplant other strategies but to just enhance them.

nefloyd · Aug 16, 2012

You can focus on one type and get only that or you can get lots of different GP points and get a variety. Either way the cost increases for them all, don't see the problem.

Faith is handled differently, and part of that is because you have to unlock them with the proper policy tree

You'll want to micro-manage your city's specialists if you want to focus on scientists for babylon. The automatic assignment pretty much slots every specialist you can feed

GhostSalsa · Aug 17, 2012

The trick to getting many of the same type or a decent number of all different types is the same:

-Turn on manual specialist management
-Keep individual cities focuses on one kind / not that it can't be the same between cities, but have one kind in each city that is getting fully slotted rather than a spread
-Match that focus to the wonder point balance of the city for added effect.

That way you have a handful of strong bars that will fill rather than a universe of useless bars that won't.

The one kink in this is engineers. It is very hard to get a city that can compete in engineer points while your other cities are knocking the bar higher, for obvious reasons: hill cities don't get windmills, windmills are a pain to build anyway, factories are late game, and the immediate per-specialist output of +2 hammers sucks (basically a pre-ST lumber mill without the food) and strongly encourages you to keep those citizens on the fields.

I usually only manage to generate one engineer per game. The rest are via free GP or Order buys. Sad.

ricenoodle · Aug 17, 2012

Hammer Rabbi said:
well, it was quite abusive in vanilla so not only the costs go up but many Great People have been nerfed since. it is more of a balance mechanic now, maybe so as not to supplant other strategies but to just enhance them.

ah okay. I never really played vanilla (poor reviews scared me away). kinda makes sense why it is the way it is now in that case.

Mesix · Aug 17, 2012

GhostSalsa said:
The trick to getting many of the same type or a decent number of all different types is the same:

-Turn on manual specialist management
-Keep individual cities focuses on one kind / not that it can't be the same between cities, but have one kind in each city that is getting fully slotted rather than a spread
-Match that focus to the wonder point balance of the city for added effect.

That way you have a handful of strong bars that will fill rather than a universe of useless bars that won't.

The one kink in this is engineers. It is very hard to get a city that can compete in engineer points while your other cities are knocking the bar higher, for obvious reasons: hill cities don't get windmills, windmills are a pain to build anyway, factories are late game, and the immediate per-specialist output of +2 hammers sucks (basically a pre-ST lumber mill without the food) and strongly encourages you to keep those citizens on the fields.

I usually only manage to generate one engineer per game. The rest are via free GP or Order buys. Sad.

If you are specializing your cities, it should be pretty easy to get GE. I often find that I am swimming in GE, especially when I am going for a cultural victory on Emperor or below. Many of the early wonders provide GE points. When I am going for a cultural victory, I want to wonder spam, so I concentrate my capital on GE wonders. I try to have my 2nd (or sometimes 3rd) city next to a mountain to specialize in GS (it synergyzes nicely with the to have the observatory and national college in this city). Even then, I generally get about 2/3 GE and 1/3 GS. Later in the game I have another city which is specialized in GA crank up great person points. Sometime in the medieval era the GA city starts taking over and the occasional GE just adds another GA focused wonder to this city.

Furycrab · Aug 17, 2012

ricenoodle said:
ah okay. I never really played vanilla (poor reviews scared me away). kinda makes sense why it is the way it is now in that case.

Poor reviews? The games metacritic was in the high 80's. It's a polarizing game, but it's gone a hell of a long way.

Anyways, on subject.

You can decide to focus on one type of GP, or you can use up as many slots as you can feed and you'll get a varied assortment of GP. The first choice will give you more of a specific GP, however the latter will give you a few extra GP total.

Usually if you are aiming for a Fast Victory (Kinda thing vs AIs) usually better to focus them. Babylon will obviously mostly get Scientists

.

prince_caspian · Aug 17, 2012

I don't know what you mean by "effectively allowed only one GP type", but you can pop several types of GPs at once in one city, you can pop several GP types over the course of the game as noted above. I've popped a Great Scientist, Great Engineer, Great Merchant on the same turn in my capital and of course, they all cost the same points. The next one, though, will cost 300 points more. :lol:

Lose · Aug 17, 2012

you can still get a lot of GP's, get a national epic, garden, etc.

lollibast · Aug 17, 2012

GhostSalsa said:
The trick to getting many of the same type or a decent number of all different types is the same:

-Turn on manual specialist management
-Keep individual cities focuses on one kind / not that it can't be the same between cities, but have one kind in each city that is getting fully slotted rather than a spread
-Match that focus to the wonder point balance of the city for added effect.

That way you have a handful of strong bars that will fill rather than a universe of useless bars that won't.

The one kink in this is engineers. It is very hard to get a city that can compete in engineer points while your other cities are knocking the bar higher, for obvious reasons: hill cities don't get windmills, windmills are a pain to build anyway, factories are late game, and the immediate per-specialist output of +2 hammers sucks (basically a pre-ST lumber mill without the food) and strongly encourages you to keep those citizens on the fields.

I usually only manage to generate one engineer per game. The rest are via free GP or Order buys. Sad.

this

if you have cities with low GP point production they will always lag behind as the bar pushes higher, effectively wasting those points that might never yield a GP. when I am in the last quarter of the game i can estimate the remaining amount of turns and basically turn off specialists in cities that are never to pop a GP.
imho they should globalize GP production just like they did with happiness

Camikaze · Aug 17, 2012

ricenoodle said:
Was fireaxis intentionally trying to limit us to playing for one great person type?

I doubt that, but they were probably trying to limit the number of great people you can get, and the advantage you can gain from then.

OmniPotent42 · Aug 17, 2012

GhostSalsa said:
The trick to getting many of the same type or a decent number of all different types is the same:

-Turn on manual specialist management
-Keep individual cities focuses on one kind / not that it can't be the same between cities, but have one kind in each city that is getting fully slotted rather than a spread
-Match that focus to the wonder point balance of the city for added effect.

That way you have a handful of strong bars that will fill rather than a universe of useless bars that won't.

The one kink in this is engineers. It is very hard to get a city that can compete in engineer points while your other cities are knocking the bar higher, for obvious reasons: hill cities don't get windmills, windmills are a pain to build anyway, factories are late game, and the immediate per-specialist output of +2 hammers sucks (basically a pre-ST lumber mill without the food) and strongly encourages you to keep those citizens on the fields.

I usually only manage to generate one engineer per game. The rest are via free GP or Order buys. Sad.

Not if you are patachuti and rush temple of artemetis, stonehenge, pyramids and great wall. I can guarantee you will only have great engineers. Only works on emporer or below, though.

Liegence · Aug 17, 2012

Also note when one Great Person pops in a city the Great Person bars for other People do not reset like they did in Civ IV

OmniPotent42 · Aug 17, 2012

Liegence said:
Also note when one Great Person pops in a city the Great Person bars for other People do not reset like they did in Civ IV

Well in cIV it was based on probability, so you never knew for sure what you were going to get unless you super-specialized.

Callonia · Aug 17, 2012

I once got a great merchant and great scientist in same turn from same city.

Effectively only allowed one great person type

ricenoodle

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Kwami

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Hammer Rabbi

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nefloyd

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GhostSalsa

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ricenoodle

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Mesix

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prince_caspian

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Lose

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lollibast

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Camikaze

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OmniPotent42

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Liegence

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OmniPotent42

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