[MOD] Fall from Heaven II
- Thread starter Kael
- Start date
Chalid said:
This goes back to an earlier post, but if you can't destroy your own civs and workers on auto build nodes, then you'll end up with a lot of one type or at least not the type that YOU want (whatever players' preference was.)
Just please keep that in mind while you lock out destroying them...
Thanks
chocmushroom
Warlord
hawkeye72 said:
Also, Eternal Flame, the only times I've built it, the first thing I did was then destroy the fire-node, as what it the point in having 4 fire mana.
Kael said:
Just curious, but what is the big deal with letting players destroy a mana node and converting it to a different functional node? I'm not understanding how this is affecting game play.
One thought would be to make the nodes function like hamlet-city development cycle. That way when you commit to one path it at least takes you several pillages to take it back to it's raw state.
wiseguy101
Warlord
This mod keeps getting better and better as time goes on! 
hawkeye72 said:
Currently mana nodes dont really do much so its not a big deal. In future version we hope to introduce more and more wonders that require different mana types. At that point the decision of what mana type to upgrade a node to is more important strategic decision. That decision will be negated if the players can simply tear a node down and build a new one to get the next wonder. Even worse it will replace an important strategic decision with boring housekeeping task.
-mjolnir- said:This mod is awesome! Only one problem : I cant seem to get Awaken The Ancients tech. And how do you get to be the infernal? I'm looking foward for the full version!
Only the Kuriotates and the Sheaim can research that tech.
Morbius Wraith
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2006
- Messages
- 39
Ok. Am playing Khazad and am trying desperatly to build a dwarven druid. Problem is I have researched all the necessary techs, but Grove is not comming up as a building I can build...therefore no Druids 
I also havea suggestion for Khazad. How about a Runelord as an upgrade to the adept? It would be a unique Khazad mage type class. Make it more of fighter type caster with only access to Earth magic and Enchantment. Could be cool to have a Rune Weapon spell that only the Runelord could cast that benifits dwarven units weapons?? A cool effect to a rune enchanted weapon could be something like earth tremor... when a enemy unit is hit all nearby enemies are thrown back by a tremor in the earth ... make it similar to the mage spell that pushes enemies away, but it works when it hits enemy??
I also havea suggestion for Khazad. How about a Runelord as an upgrade to the adept? It would be a unique Khazad mage type class. Make it more of fighter type caster with only access to Earth magic and Enchantment. Could be cool to have a Rune Weapon spell that only the Runelord could cast that benifits dwarven units weapons?? A cool effect to a rune enchanted weapon could be something like earth tremor... when a enemy unit is hit all nearby enemies are thrown back by a tremor in the earth ... make it similar to the mage spell that pushes enemies away, but it works when it hits enemy??Morbius Wraith said:Ok. Am playing Khazad and am trying desperatly to build a dwarven druid. Problem is I have researched all the necessary techs, but Grove is not comming up as a building I can build...therefore no Druids
Your right about the grove, I will fix that in todays patch.
A t3 dwarven caster would be able to buff archer untis, which doesn't match well with the dwarven flavor anyway so it would be better to stay as they are. Yoru tremor attack could be interesting but sounds more like a hero ability. You certainly wouldnt want a bunch of untis running around that could do that.
Morbius Wraith
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2006
- Messages
- 39
Kael said:
Well. How about only giving the Runelord access to Earth domain? That would prevent the enchantment to arrows which I agree is undwarf like. If not making the runelord a mage class hero, why not make them Khazad Paladins? As the Khazad are priest and warriors, a paladin type unit special based on them would make sense. Could see it as they inscribe holy runes upon their armor and weapons which instill in them certain earthly powers in battle?
A hero with the tremor ability would also be very cool. What makes it so flavorfull is that it is a defensive type attack, making it hard for attackers to get close while bloodying their noses trying. Could be very tacticfull, but I agree a lot of units with the power would be unbalancing.
War Chicken
Warlord
Kael said:
It would be really great if the Upgrades of the Spellcasters would depend on what mana you have (Fire II only available if you posess 2 Fire Mana) That would make the Spellcasters not as powerful as they are now and make the Mana Nodes much more valuable. Further it would make wonders, that add a specific type of mana more important. Maybe the appearance of the Mana-Resource should be a little more common then.
chocmushroom
Warlord
War Chicken said:
This sounds like a good idea to me, with a few exceptions. Each civ can have access to any level of the aspect their home palace produce. This is because it's the natural calling of the spellcasters of that civ.
After that, i'm not sure which is better for game-play, that you need access to the mana node entirely, or for higher levels
Number of Mana node = Spell level accessible after first level
or
Number of Mana node = Spell level accessible
There is a big problem with this tho, that is how many Mana nodes there are in the game. It would limit what type of magic each civ could get, and I think there would need to be more ways to get mana.
More ways of getting mana. National wonder: You need 8 building, and something withing the bounderies of the city.
Eg. Vulcano Harness. Produces wanted fire mana. The player would need 8 forges and it would have to be built in a city with a 2 mountains in it's radius (which is then turned into a Vulcano) The draw-back is, it randomly changes one of the squares next to the mountain into a non-usable tile.
Tidal Harness. Produces water mana. The player needs to have 8 harbours and can only be built in a city with 3 ocean tiles in it's radius. The draw-back is, it randomly changes two of the sea tiles into non-usable tiles.
This would make Mana a lot more accessable to more, but at a cost.
Maybe having them as national wonders is not good, as limits them, but each civ can only have one of each type, accessable after a tech is known.
Edit: This may cause problems for the civ that only has 3 cities.
QES
Court Jester
A Couple Crash Notes: (If already known, then ignore this.
- Crash after zooming out to look at religion spread and influence
- Crash When Evermore reached Legendary Culture AND zoomed in to look at city.
- Possible ? - Memory leak like in vanilla? Certainly slows down late game, even if everythings been discovered. Maybe im just impaitent with my computer.
****************************************************
And by the way Kael, wonderful job. I had to get a whole new account for Fanatics (The old one Quasievilscott, i couldnt access different email, and unknown password..ahh how memories fade..), JUST to tell you how much I love the II version.
On Elves: Is it supposed to be that I cant create forests with my super awesome druids (or whomever) if there are already improvements in the tile? Because they ought to be able to build farms and cottages ON forests, is it one way only?
Secondly, Near the end of the game My little elf worker minions, stop building cottages and farms on woods...something they did early game with almost a bounce in their step. I dare say with giddiness. Does life just begin to depress them later? or whats going on.
Finally, the elves rock - It's too hard for me to play anything else right now, Fellowship forever. But still, id like to branch out, any suggestions? I get my butt kicked (on prince) if i try anythin else.
Rock On Kael and Team,
-QES
- Crash after zooming out to look at religion spread and influence
- Crash When Evermore reached Legendary Culture AND zoomed in to look at city.
- Possible ? - Memory leak like in vanilla? Certainly slows down late game, even if everythings been discovered. Maybe im just impaitent with my computer.
****************************************************
And by the way Kael, wonderful job. I had to get a whole new account for Fanatics (The old one Quasievilscott, i couldnt access different email, and unknown password..ahh how memories fade..), JUST to tell you how much I love the II version.
On Elves: Is it supposed to be that I cant create forests with my super awesome druids (or whomever) if there are already improvements in the tile? Because they ought to be able to build farms and cottages ON forests, is it one way only?
Secondly, Near the end of the game My little elf worker minions, stop building cottages and farms on woods...something they did early game with almost a bounce in their step. I dare say with giddiness. Does life just begin to depress them later? or whats going on.
Finally, the elves rock - It's too hard for me to play anything else right now, Fellowship forever. But still, id like to branch out, any suggestions? I get my butt kicked (on prince) if i try anythin else.
Rock On Kael and Team,
-QES
QES
Court Jester
chocmushroom said:
I was thinking this too. I LOVE the casters. I love them. However, I feel OVER inundated with options. I like variety, so if a spell caster, say an adept->Archmage line has a few spheres at his/her disposal. thats awesome. But my casters (tell me if you all have the same thing) tend to have no less than 8-10 spells or abilities maybe half of which are active always, and another half are situation specific. Id rather each individual spell caster be more badmothershutyourmouth and have fewer options. If one required more mana sources to get higher up a tree, it would REALLY open up the vareity, whilst cutting down on inundation. You either A) can have lots of options in the level 1 areas. Or a few mighty Archmage/whatevers roaming around with level 3 powers.
I like the idea of having buildings produce mana BUT - I like it how you already must have a source of that mana (as is oft the case) before you can produce that building. Sort of slows you down. The eternal flame is a great example, Ya gotta have fire before you make fire.
I think there should be National Wonders that come with those "node finding" techs. You get 3. Period. You get 3 of these national wonder types. Each would provide you with 1 of the mana specific. So, you could either build 1 Death, 1 Entropy, and One body. OR 3 body. But, once you have 3 of them, you never get any more.
A last thought on casters. They're too precious for me to use. Because of the way they level (pure genius) I never want them close to the front lines. They sit, im my uberized cities, for defence and I produce large numbers of non-arcane units to handle the baddies. Only at the end of a game did i use them - en masse, and only then because all of my regular units had died, and it was the last city of a civilizations, and i had a bit of genocide on my tounge.
I lost 3 of them to shadows (OOOO A VICIOUS AN CLEVERLY DESIGNED UNIT) and the rest uber buffed a rag tag assortment of regulars, and I still lost 60% to an ubercity. Summons..well...they're cheap...but you cant use em in numbers unless you have numbers already, and they're weak. Unlike FFHI, where mages/casters were overpowered, now they're precious (for buffs and the like) and too fragile to bring forward.
Not sure how to mitigate that. I would like the option (but not the necessity) of having a very small number of very powerful casters. As opposed to a lot of infrequent buffers that get assassinated. An idea - Maybe there is a way to code the game so that once you have your adept you can build a building, this building disapears as SOON as you build it, (so you can build it again) but any Adepts that are in the city in which it is built, at the time it is built, gain a level. Straight up. (Or some amount of exp) You could do this to manually pump your casters. IN this, make adepts either more/very expensive, or limit the number of them. (Id say dont limit people, go with expence) {Edit: OR better yet, make the BUILDING very expensive, pumping manually would be a choice to neglect something else. Still, instead of building 4 adepts and wating for them to climb their archaic social ladder, one could build a single adept and pump the bejesus into/outof him.}
Maybe also only allow adepts to access the spheres that are appropriate to the nodes associated. One could not level an adept in Death, if one did not have Necromancy. (You can make promotions linked to tech right?)
Just itching my brainworms, hope it helps.
-QES
QES
Court Jester
I appologize for rapid-shooting my thoughts/ideas/questions/adoration/musings. But I think in Bulk.
On improvements: Is there a way to code in Tierd Improvements? An improvement (farm, mine, workshop, fortress, node) that could be upgraded? I Imagine the fortress, at first perhaps its good against calvary, then perhaps its upgraded to provide cover from archery units, then perhaps late game it could be upgraded further to provide sweet Civ2 style ZOC.
Magic nodes could also be upgraded, perhaps further giving more of that type of mana (useful for primarily trade in current FFH2).
Or perhaps one could program it to upgrade (with tech) naturally like cottages. I see it being unlikely that the square best for a fortress would be used by a city however.
Game Mechanic Quirk: Rise of the People
Ok so i like the tree ent idea of spawning if invaded in an ancient forest.
Why not, on a much weaker (more for RPG purposes) premise, have warrior (or equivilant units) spawn if a enemy unit enteres a cottage square. It could be a funciton of two things: A) The size of the cottage, and B) Current Approval Rating. If the evil orcs are invading your lands, and you got a 100% approval rating, wouldn't it be cool, if ...sadly inneffective, if warrior units randomly appeared in your territory to "turn back the tide". Also, Perhaps Civics could more directly affect approval ratings, or at least the "compasion" civic section.
Visuals: The barbarian goblins are perhaps the most entertaining units to watch fight. While they dont often live, i love that there are five of them. I would LOVE, if there could be a way to differentiate strength from numbers. For example. Your base Line Warrior Unit is a Str 2, has 100hp (like everything). Would it/ COULD IT/please fellas it'd be awesome - If in your unit balance calculations, you could have some units have more HP and some have less. Simply put, the sheer numbers IN the units. Goblins are Str 1, perhaps 150hp. Annoying (not sure how this affects battle too much - tests would have to be done), and your uber single units (heros and the like) would be a lot less. You could discern how much HP a unit has by its relative number of represented units (a pain for people who put single unit on, but it DOES come up on the little ? thing before a battle). 5 Units would be Above average HP, 3 Units Nominal. 2 Units slightly less. And 1 Unit would be the least. Units with only 1 Unit would have to have higher str. to compensate, 5 model units would have to have slightly less. Obviously. OR keep it purely astetic. But put more 5 model stuff in, It was great watching the Soldiers of Kalimorph fight goblins.....more fun than watching the red dragon die to tree ents. - Which was much more graphically intensive (still very cool btw).
On improvements: Is there a way to code in Tierd Improvements? An improvement (farm, mine, workshop, fortress, node) that could be upgraded? I Imagine the fortress, at first perhaps its good against calvary, then perhaps its upgraded to provide cover from archery units, then perhaps late game it could be upgraded further to provide sweet Civ2 style ZOC.
Magic nodes could also be upgraded, perhaps further giving more of that type of mana (useful for primarily trade in current FFH2).
Or perhaps one could program it to upgrade (with tech) naturally like cottages. I see it being unlikely that the square best for a fortress would be used by a city however.
Game Mechanic Quirk: Rise of the People
Ok so i like the tree ent idea of spawning if invaded in an ancient forest.
Why not, on a much weaker (more for RPG purposes) premise, have warrior (or equivilant units) spawn if a enemy unit enteres a cottage square. It could be a funciton of two things: A) The size of the cottage, and B) Current Approval Rating. If the evil orcs are invading your lands, and you got a 100% approval rating, wouldn't it be cool, if ...sadly inneffective, if warrior units randomly appeared in your territory to "turn back the tide". Also, Perhaps Civics could more directly affect approval ratings, or at least the "compasion" civic section.
Visuals: The barbarian goblins are perhaps the most entertaining units to watch fight. While they dont often live, i love that there are five of them. I would LOVE, if there could be a way to differentiate strength from numbers. For example. Your base Line Warrior Unit is a Str 2, has 100hp (like everything). Would it/ COULD IT/please fellas it'd be awesome - If in your unit balance calculations, you could have some units have more HP and some have less. Simply put, the sheer numbers IN the units. Goblins are Str 1, perhaps 150hp. Annoying (not sure how this affects battle too much - tests would have to be done), and your uber single units (heros and the like) would be a lot less. You could discern how much HP a unit has by its relative number of represented units (a pain for people who put single unit on, but it DOES come up on the little ? thing before a battle). 5 Units would be Above average HP, 3 Units Nominal. 2 Units slightly less. And 1 Unit would be the least. Units with only 1 Unit would have to have higher str. to compensate, 5 model units would have to have slightly less. Obviously. OR keep it purely astetic. But put more 5 model stuff in, It was great watching the Soldiers of Kalimorph fight goblins.....more fun than watching the red dragon die to tree ents. - Which was much more graphically intensive (still very cool btw).
SchpailsMan
Warlord
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2006
- Messages
- 189
QES said:
Something like this already exists in Vanilla (and FfH) with techs that "improve" improvements' yields.
QES
Court Jester
Cool Songs:
IS it possible to have that song that plays during the Loading screen play during the game itself? I love its meloncholy and want its mood added to the flavor of my games. Mmmm... Lonley Melohcholic Vampires, wishing for better days, and living with their Ire for immortality......
-QES
IS it possible to have that song that plays during the Loading screen play during the game itself? I love its meloncholy and want its mood added to the flavor of my games. Mmmm... Lonley Melohcholic Vampires, wishing for better days, and living with their Ire for immortality......
-QES
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