[MOD] Fall from Heaven II

Kael said:
Yes, you're right. And its a secret to most players, but secrets dont last long in the ffh forum. ;)

Most of the secrets that remain unknown are writing details or puzzles that I hide in the game to amuse myself (such as the great engineer source). I dont really expect anyone to ever figure them out.

I knew you were up to no good. Keep it up.

BTW: Dwarves

Is your general feeling that dwarves are Mountain/hill dwellers and have small (rather than expansive) boarders, small but productive and deeply defensive folk?

Or are you going with the "Dwarves are like anyone, deserts, forests, sea, floodplain and plains dwarves."

I prefer the former, as im a Fantasy Racist. RACES belong in their place! j/k

IM thinking the Cottages should NOT be the main source of income for dwarves, but instead some kind of special Mine.

-QES
 
Broken Hawk said:
What tech allows you to clear jungles? I'm going crazy looking for it in the Pedia.

Sanitation
 
Coca_carola said:
ey maybe that's even better! but i kind of liked the idea with spreading atheism around the world. Like when "atheism" spreads to a foreign city with a religion the previous religion dissapear from the city, but not permanently, the other civ could re-establish religion in that city. Just my thoughts. ;>

There is no atheism when gods walk the earth. With Agnostic just meaning that there might not be a belife/disbelife in god but they dont believe the gods are worthy of worship. I think someone commented once that it is closer to say that the Grigori are anti-theistic.

Free Religion (Cassiel's favorite civic) allows them to select any of the religious civics. So they could choose Arete, Slavery, etc. I kind of liek the fact that they can choose the benifits of all the religions that they want without getting caught up in the dogma.
 
QES said:
I knew you were up to no good. Keep it up.

BTW: Dwarves

Is your general feeling that dwarves are Mountain/hill dwellers and have small (rather than expansive) boarders, small but productive and deeply defensive folk?

Or are you going with the "Dwarves are like anyone, deserts, forests, sea, floodplain and plains dwarves."

I prefer the former, as im a Fantasy Racist. RACES belong in their place! j/k

IM thinking the Cottages should NOT be the main source of income for dwarves, but instead some kind of special Mine.

-QES

Yeah we want to add some dwarven special mines but we just havent got them in yet.
 
Kael said:
There is no atheism when gods walk the earth. With Agnostic just meaning that there might not be a belife/disbelife in god but they dont believe the gods are worthy of worship. I think someone commented once that it is closer to say that the Grigori are anti-theistic.

Free Religion (Cassiel's favorite civic) allows them to select any of the religious civics. So they could choose Arete, Slavery, etc. I kind of liek the fact that they can choose the benifits of all the religions that they want without getting caught up in the dogma.

So I heard there is going to be an INquisitor for the Grigori...how's that work if its a non-de-plume? Why'd the leader invest effort into purging religions if its not out of some sort of comitment?
-Qes

EDIT: Could you have some sort of system where Grigorian's TAX the religions? "Sure you can be here, if you pay the tax" So that all religions earn Grigorians money? Yeah, they're spying on you, and you cant control its flow (i still say no temples of any kind), but youll make a GP off it.
 
QES said:
So I heard there is going to be an INquisitor for the Grigori...how's that work if its a non-de-plume? Why'd the leader invest effort into purging religions if its not out of some sort of comitment?
-Qes

EDIT: Could you have some sort of system where Grigorian's TAX the religions? "Sure you can be here, if you pay the tax" So that all religions earn Grigorians money? Yeah, they're spying on you, and you cant control its flow (i still say no temples of any kind), but youll make a GP off it.

The Grigori Inquisitor is in 0.14, he chases rogue religions out of Grigori cities.
 
Kael said:
The Grigori Inquisitor is in 0.14, he chases rogue religions out of Grigori cities.

But why? What's his motivation? You said the Grigorian leader is agnostic and doesnt view the gods with any special reverance.....is that enough to want to rid his cities of them? I suppose the answer to that could be the cold truth of "They're using it to spy on us, ill have none-of-that."

That'd make sense....answer my own question? Oops.

What about the happiness issue? Just generelly gonna have miserable people early game? Thats cool, makes em different, like the Khazad.

-Qes

EDIT: I Have 0.14 just never noticed they had one.
 
QES said:
But why? What's his motivation? You said the Grigorian leader is agnostic and doesnt view the gods with any special reverance.....is that enough to want to rid his cities of them? I suppose the answer to that could be the cold truth of "They're using it to spy on us, ill have none-of-that."

That'd make sense....answer my own question? Oops.

What about the happiness issue? Just generelly gonna have miserable people early game? Thats cool, makes em different, like the Khazad.

-Qes

EDIT: I Have 0.14 just never noticed they had one.

I was thinking the people of the civ would share similer belives as their leader and along with the inqasitioners you could have a building( inqasitioners hall) which would replace the temples that would come with religion. This would help with happyness. By this i mean the people would say, "Oh, our leader is looking out for us. Look over their *person points* he's even helping us with our religious belifs"
 
Civkid1991 said:
I was thinking the people of the civ would share similer belives as their leader and along with the inqasitioners you could have a building( inqasitioners hall) which would replace the temples that would come with religion. This would help with happyness. By this i mean the people would say, "Oh, our leader is looking out for us. Look over their *person points* he's even helping us with our religious belifs"

Like "big brother is watching?" Thats a little to close to a Relgion of the state , state religion. Agnostic is more....."meh....i dunno, i dont bother the gods, they dont bother me..usually" Sort of mentality. Or a very acedemic one. "One cannot prove, nor disprove their existance." Since we KNOW gods roam around in FFH, it's not the latter.
-Qes
 
Patch "C" is uploaded and linked int he first post.
 
The two things i like the most in this mod are the spells and the religions. So as i was playing at like 3 o'clock last night i was thinking about the spells and how one could put spells and religion together.

Coming from this is my idea of religious spells. When a great prist is born i was thinking there should be a new thing you can us him for. Instead of putting him in the city or using him to gain a tech or build the holy shrine you could use him to creat a holy priest (arcane unit). This prist would be the "holy hero" for what ever religion that civ is. This prist would be an arcane unit that needs spell upgrades to get to the "holy" spells of that religion. Here is my list of possible spells:

[Fllwshp/lves] Weather spells:
Needed: Holy prist with water lvl 3, Nature lvl 3, Air lvl 1, Tower of the Elements(?)
Spells:
+ Rain: Increases the Food production for a few turns in a city (if alot turns tile into flood plains and causes famine).
+ Hurrican: creates a hurrican that lasts for 5 turns (Has an attack value of 9 and can creat a tsunami and is non-promotable)
+ Ancient Guardian: Turns forests near and at the border in to ancient forests which slow down enemy units and gives bonus defene to the civ (can be cased once)

[Order] Creation Spells:
Needed: Holy prist with Spirt lvl 3, Body lvl 3, Law lvl 1, Life lvl 1 (? Ill think of a wonder later?)
Spells:
+ Soul Craft: Caster can creat *special units* that can only attack evil units and demons and has +50% vs evil disiple units
+ Divine Tuch: Heals ever friendly unit within 1 tile of caster ( spell can be casted only once ever 5 (maybe heigher) turns)

[kilmorph] Alchemy spells:
Needed: Holy prist with Earth lvl 3, runes of Kilmorph holy shrine, and Spell book of Kilmorph
Spells:
+ High Lvl Transmutation: Turns copper into gold, iron into mithreal, Mithreal into Mana, Stone into marble (can only be used once per resource)
+ Hands of Kilmorph: Turns sea into land -> Hills

[Ashen Vl] Armaggedon spells:
Needed: Soul forge, Holy prist with lvl 3 death, Enntrophy Lvl 3, Chaos lvl 3, and 3 death mana, Holy city of the Ashen veil, Armaggedon tech
spells:
+ Anarcy: Turns 25% of the worlds units into barbs and buts the casting civ into anarcy for 3 turns (Destroys caster)
+ Chaos Alter: Destroyes caster and creates the Alter of Chaos in the holy city of the Ashen Veil (Chaos alter allows the civ to creat low lvl demons (imps, floting eyes, etc.)

[Overlord] Insanity Spells:
Needed: 1 Kracken, Overlord holy city, Holy prist with lvl 3 mind, chaos lvl 3, and tower of complancy, 2 water mana
spells:
+ Flood: Grants the civ with 3 kracken with the ability to creat tsnamis and increases the water lvl for the map (destroys caster)
+ Oceanic Birth: Creats an octapus at the coast closest to the Overlord holy city (destorys caster) ( Octapus: Atk is 11 and has all mind spells. It can't, however, move onto tiles with forests and tiles that have deserts or are tundras.)


This is just the first draft of my brainstorm for it. If you desided to use this then you may what to change some of the names and twick it a bit.

Oh, and a note about the holy priests, only one can be made for each civ throughout the whole game and can be made only if that civ has a state religion.

Kael, hope you consider!

~Civkid~

P.S: Sorry for any spelling mistakes :goodjob:
 
There are already Religious spells in the game, used by priests and Druids and the like.
 
Quote from QES There are already Religious spells in the game, used by priests and Druids and the like.
* Srry forgot to Quote *

No what i mean is like spells that are just for that unit and for that religion. Spells that can be learned by priest and druids can be learned in other religions. Plus i dont think there are any spell that are specificly for Ashen Veil or Octapus Overlord OR Any of the other religions now that i think of it. If i remember correctly, the only spell (or group of spell) that i could think could match a religion is water, law, death, and nature. Those spellls can be learnt by other priests in other religions. With the spells that i was talking about other religions could not access them and only the Holy priest could learn them.
 
Civkid1991 said:
Quote from QES There are already Religious spells in the game, used by priests and Druids and the like.
* Srry forgot to Quote *

No what i mean is like spells that are just for that unit and for that religion. Spells that can be learned by priest and druids can be learned in other religions. Plus i dont think there are any spell that are specificly for Ashen Veil or Octapus Overlord OR Any of the other religions now that i think of it. If i remember correctly, the only spell (or group of spell) that i could think could match a religion is water, law, death, and nature. Those spellls can be learnt by other priests in other religions. With the spells that i was talking about other religions could not access them and only the Holy priest could learn them.

There are quite a few spells that can only be learned by priests/high priests of that specific religion. Mutation can only be cast by an Overlords Priest, Reversal of Fortune can only be cast by an Overlords High Priest, etc etc.

So I dont much like making special spells for the prophets.

But One thing I do really like from your ideas would be the ability to sacrifice the great prophet for a specific effect. Sorta like how you can sacrifice an engineer to rush a wonder you could sacrifice a prophet to rush a ritual (or just have a rituals effect without having to build the ritual at all).
 
Civkid1991 said:
Quote from QES There are already Religious spells in the game, used by priests and Druids and the like.
* Srry forgot to Quote *

No what i mean is like spells that are just for that unit and for that religion. Spells that can be learned by priest and druids can be learned in other religions. Plus i dont think there are any spell that are specificly for Ashen Veil or Octapus Overlord OR Any of the other religions now that i think of it. If i remember correctly, the only spell (or group of spell) that i could think could match a religion is water, law, death, and nature. Those spellls can be learnt by other priests in other religions. With the spells that i was talking about other religions could not access them and only the Holy priest could learn them.

I am uncertain as to how Kael envisions his spheres of magic to the gods. If i understand it somewhat right, each sphere has its own god that pertains to it, and grants the use of spells in that sphere. Arcanists (like in D&D) do it through study and practice. The "divine" casters that are available, have access to the spheres they do (or...domains) because of their religious alignment. Spells cant be "only accesable by" (I THINK) certain units, because whatever sphere they are taping int to get that spell, there are other means to tap that sphere. Kael intentionally wanted mix and match. Spheres are supposed to blur into each other.

BUT Im with you in concept. Id like to see more discresion in casters, casters being more prudent with choices, and being forced to choose between entire lines.
-Qes
 
Kael said:
There are quite a few spells that can only be learned by priests/high priests of that specific religion. Mutation can only be cast by an Overlords Priest, Reversal of Fortune can only be cast by an Overlords High Priest, etc etc.

So I dont much like making special spells for the prophets.

But One thing I do really like from your ideas would be the ability to sacrifice the great prophet for a specific effect. Sorta like how you can sacrifice an engineer to rush a wonder you could sacrifice a prophet to rush a ritual (or just have a rituals effect without having to build the ritual at all).

Yes, that's what i was thinking when i thought up the armaggedon spells. You would have to sacrifice the "Holy priest" inorder to cast or in the case of your twick start a ritual that would have an effect on the world or the civ (Anarcy -> 25% barb and 3 turns of anarcy). There also the case where you could sacrifice the unit to get a alter (or maybe some other religious building like the Chaos alter that i mentioned above).

~Civkid~:goodjob:
 
QES said:
I am uncertain as to how Kael envisions his spheres of magic to the gods. If i understand it somewhat right, each sphere has its own god that pertains to it, and grants the use of spells in that sphere. Arcanists (like in D&D) do it through study and practice. The "divine" casters that are available, have access to the spheres they do (or...domains) because of their religious alignment. Spells cant be "only accesable by" (I THINK) certain units, because whatever sphere they are taping int to get that spell, there are other means to tap that sphere. Kael intentionally wanted mix and match. Spheres are supposed to blur into each other.

BUT Im with you in concept. Id like to see more discresion in casters, casters being more prudent with choices, and being forced to choose between entire lines.
-Qes

Socrates had his 4 elements, FfH has 21. The mages call these Spheres, the priests, Dominions. But in truth they are the same thing, those essential components that were used to form creation.

As you suggested mages tap into that power directly while the priests use the conduit of their diety to access it.

As to the relationship between mages and mana ndoes, that is under review right now and it may be changed in 0.15. There have been some really good ideas in the past few pages, and we are looking to find a better system than the current.
 
QES said:
I am uncertain as to how Kael envisions his spheres of magic to the gods. If i understand it somewhat right, each sphere has its own god that pertains to it, and grants the use of spells in that sphere. Arcanists (like in D&D) do it through study and practice. The "divine" casters that are available, have access to the spheres they do (or...domains) because of their religious alignment. Spells cant be "only accesable by" (I THINK) certain units, because whatever sphere they are taping int to get that spell, there are other means to tap that sphere. Kael intentionally wanted mix and match. Spheres are supposed to blur into each other.

BUT Im with you in concept. Id like to see more discresion in casters, casters being more prudent with choices, and being forced to choose between entire lines.
-Qes

What you said about the spheres is what i was talking abou with the holy priests. These priests would be arcane units that require a combination of spells to get to the higer "Godly Spells". For example, With the Armaggedon spells you need a combination of the 3 death spells, chaos spells, and entrophy spells. In addition to that, to make it a bit more of a challenge, i added in a neccesary wonder or amount of mana needed inorder to use these God spells.
 
Kael said:
Socrates had his 4 elements, FfH has 21. The mages call these Spheres, the priests, Dominions. But in truth they are the same thing, those essential components that were used to form creation.

As you suggested mages tap into that power directly while the priests use the conduit of their diety to access it.

As to the relationship between mages and mana ndoes, that is under review right now and it may be changed in 0.15. There have been some really good ideas in the past few pages, and we are looking to find a better system than the current.

May i suggest having the mana and building that allows you to creat arcane units (forgot what it was called) have a relationship. The building is where the mages access the powers and when mana is brought to the building the mages use them to access/learn different spells.

Or another idea... Instead of having them be a physical resource having them a resource only abtainable (sp?) by sacrificing arcane units for the sake of his/her(not sure what they are by looking at graphics) fellow/future units and wonders that allow you to tap into the power of a spicific sphere by means of mana.

~civKid~
 
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