One Man's Terrorist Is Another Man's Freedom Fighter

nivi

Call me Ishmael
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Apr 18, 2003
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Middle of nowhere, israel.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-04-30-watchlist_N.htm

U.S. has Mandela on terrorist list

WASHINGTON — Nobel Peace Prize winner and international symbol of freedom Nelson Mandela is flagged on U.S. terrorist watch lists and needs special permission to visit the USA. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice calls the situation "embarrassing," and some members of Congress vow to fix it.

The requirement applies to former South African leader Mandela and other members of South Africa's governing African National Congress (ANC), the once-banned anti-Apartheid organization. In the 1970s and '80s, the ANC was officially designated a terrorist group by the country's ruling white minority. Other countries, including the United States, followed suit.

Because of this, Rice told a Senate committee recently, her department has to issue waivers for ANC members to travel to the USA.

"This is a country with which we now have excellent relations, South Africa, but it's frankly a rather embarrassing matter that I still have to waive in my own counterpart, the foreign minister of South Africa, not to mention the great leader Nelson Mandela," Rice said.

Rep. Howard Berman, D-Calif., chairman of the House International Relations Committee, is pushing a bill that would remove current and former ANC leaders from the watch lists. Supporters hope to get it passed before Mandela's 90th birthday July 18.

"What an indignity," Berman said. "The ANC set an important example: It successfully made the change from armed struggle to peace. We should celebrate the transformation."

In 1990, Mandela was freed after 27 years in prison for crimes committed during the struggle against Apartheid, a repressive regime that subjugated black South Africans. In 1994, he was elected South Africa's first black president.

Sen. Judd Gregg, R-N.H., called ANC members' inclusion on watch lists a "bureaucratic snafu" and pledged to fix the problem.

Members of other groups deemed a terrorist threat, such as Hamas, also are on the watch lists.

Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff says "common sense" suggests Mandela should be removed. He says the issue "raises a troubling and difficult debate about what groups are considered terrorists and which are not."

When ANC members apply for visas to the USA, they are flagged for questioning and need a waiver to be allowed in the country. In 2002, former ANC chairman Tokyo Sexwale was denied a visa. In 2007, Barbara Masekela, South Africa's ambassador to the United States from 2002 to 2006, was denied a visa to visit her ailing cousin and didn't get a waiver until after the cousin had died, Berman's legislation says.

:rolleyes:
 
Woo hoo! Some mention of Tokyo Sexwale, one of the greatest names in the history of mankind.

What? Terrorism or something?

Cleo
 
Mandela WAS a member of the ANC, which didn't exactly have a happy happy joy joy record.
 
So ANC can be compared to other groups dubbed "terrorist" because of discriminatory governments saying so coughchechnyacough
 
Wow, heres to the expectation that everything the government does should be flawless, and 100% error free all day, every day, 24/7/365.

And to those who are somehow shocked when it doesnt happen. :lol:

what kind of republican are you?
 
I'm fairly certain there's a Cuban wanted for a bombing in Havana, living in Florida, that the US refuses to extradite.

War on some Drugs, I guess.
 
if the government is flawless most of the time why don't you support the government in most things outside of military and police matters?

??? Methinks you need to re-read my post.

Because I dont think the government is flawless. Rather the opposite in fact.

My point being that people who always seem shocked at things like the story in the OP dont seem to understand such errors are commonplace and should be easily fixed.

In other words..../big whoopee.
 
Wow, heres to the expectation that everything the government does should be flawless, and 100% error free all day, every day, 24/7/365.

And to those who are somehow shocked when it doesnt happen. :lol:

Well, I agree no one's perfect, but this is a MAYOR screw-up. He is NELSON MANDELA after all.
 
Just for more context there are federal flight marshals on the no fly list.

Ahhh federal lists: Easy to get on, impossible to get off.
 
Well, I agree no one's perfect, but this is a MAYOR screw-up. He is NELSON MANDELA after all.

Its a screw up, but I wouldnt call it a major screw up. Mandela does have a dark history privious to his imprisonment in South Africa. He was the leader the militant arm of the ANC and in that capacity conducted Sabotage and gurrellia warfare that killed a lot of civilians (i.e. terrorist acts). Later on, he himself admitted that the ANC violated human rights during this period.

In other words, there might be an actual reason he is on the watchlist because of his militant history.

And remember....its a 'watch' list.....not a 'he's a friggin terrorist' list.

Like I said, its an error in consideration of his age and his works and position over the last 2 decades, but in light of his militant background its not necessarily a surprise that he came up on the list.
 
??? Methinks you need to re-read my post.

Because I dont think the government is flawless. Rather the opposite in fact.

My point being that people who always seem shocked at things like the story in the OP dont seem to understand such errors are commonplace and should be easily fixed.

In other words..../big whoopee.

no no, i'm setting up the great: how are you deciding what flaws are acceptable and what flaws are not in the big picture. if you accept that mistakes happen in the government why do you tend to overlook certain ones over others?
 
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