Some thoughts about modding C3C

not to highjack the discussion , but in the city screen why does the Settler appear above the Worker , them above Land units , followed by Sea and Air ? Is it because of their place in the .biq or are there other factors , like their location in the Civilopedia ?
 
The order depends on when you discover the technology that unlocks the units. In the case of units that require the same tech (including initial units that require no tech), they will be separated by land/air/sea and then listed according to the biq order. In the case of the settler and worker, they require no tech and are at the top of the biq list so they rule the roost for the whole game.
 
thanks , it would have been an agony to discover that through personal experience . At the limited possibilities of playing Civ , ı hang around the LotM very much and that one leads me to make the unit search a lot .

let me go on . ı had it from AnthonyBoscia that the .biq has been tested up to 10 000 units . There can be only 32 Strategic/Luxury resources and 256 buildings . So , how many sciences ? Say if they are 64 , do they have to divided equally between the 4 eras ?

normal scenarios need 4 cities for each Army , can that be cut to 0 , so that there's no limit of Army numbers ? ı might do them far too overpowered for early eras and battle produced leaders shouldn't be wasted for a barracks or something similar .

does the AI settle when it begins the game on a single tile island ? Considering am also interested in some spacy type thing and can't bring myself to construct around the orbit . ı think it was Zergmaster who made sea workers possible . The one or two times ı tested this the AI civ immediately died , is that because ı am forgetting something like giving 10 golds to each Civ at the beginning of the game ?
 
not capable enough yet but ı just saw a thread on some other Firaxis game on Monday . Are you doing space colony type cities ?
 
if so and assuming ı can get that far to incorporate cities ı can use certainly use the type of graphic you posted over there . ı also remember there were Martian cities with force shields over , which might also come in . Any chance of floating type stations without ground supports ?
 
r16: I have 234 techs in my mod, and I am unaware of any limit in the number of techs. The techs doesn't have to be evenly distributed among the eras, but the tech advisor screen will become pretty crowded when exceeding 40 techs pr. era. I had to reduce the size of the already small RAR-techboxes to be able to fit them in.

Sea workers are possible, but the AI are unable to use them. I don't know why the AI civ died immediately in your mod - perhaps their settler started in a watertile and drowned?

The Firaxis editor won't allow you to set the number of cities needed to support an army to zero. Maybe Quintillus' or Steph's editors will allow this? I have made the first army-unit to hold only one foot-unit (mounted and wheeled units not allowed). This makes it easier for AI to use armies effectively, and doesn't make them too fast and powerful for the player (at least in the early stages of the game).
 
r16 said:
if so and assuming ı can get that far to incorporate cities ı can use certainly use the type of graphic you posted over there . ı also remember there were Martian cities with force shields over , which might also come in . Any chance of floating type stations without ground supports ?
Click to expand...

If you post a pic of what you want it to look like, i might be able to make it..
 
Great thread Civinator! Really makes me want to start modding again.

One question about the older advanced auto-production method. If you have a stack of different units that are all king units which unit defends first? Does the game revert back to its normal process so the best defender would defend first?
 
Jorsalfare said:
r16: I have 234 techs in my mod, and I am unaware of any limit in the number of techs. The techs doesn't have to be evenly distributed among the eras, but the tech advisor screen will become pretty crowded when exceeding 40 techs pr. era. I had to reduce the size of the already small RAR-techboxes to be able to fit them in.

Sea workers are possible, but the AI are unable to use them. I don't know why the AI civ died immediately in your mod - perhaps their settler started in a watertile and drowned?

The Firaxis editor won't allow you to set the number of cities needed to support an army to zero. Maybe Quintillus' or Steph's editors will allow this? I have made the first army-unit to hold only one foot-unit (mounted and wheeled units not allowed). This makes it easier for AI to use armies effectively, and doesn't make them too fast and powerful for the player (at least in the early stages of the game).
Click to expand...

thanks , for all the ideas . ı would follow the LotM example and make techs available only if one has the needed pre-tech that you can not research . 40 seems a good number and ı will follow that , too . There's also the option of placing a tech exactly on top of a former one , but it seems to be visually challenged as well . Say , you learn copper working and make iron working contingent on knowing copper . So that possibly iron working will appear in place of the box for copper .

for the settler , my lap-top might be doing tricks , ı don't exactly know . ı have no web connection at home and can't use anything apart from the Firaxis one , but having a "promising" scenario might invite help later .

Kyriakos said:
If you post a pic of what you want it to look like, i might be able to make it..
Click to expand...

thanks for the offer , but it seems to be too early . ı think ı should have a worthwhile thing at first .

is it possible to have a city graphic that covers 9 tiles instead of one ? An early idea was a Civ III version of the Master of Orion I . If possible such a thing might give an idea of spaceships landing troops on a planet , even if it was to remain a standart amphibious attack . Village-town-metropolis distinctions could be given by the number of lights on the dark side of the planet , while the daylight side might have been entirely covered by clouds . Considering we would feel sorry if an ocean planet was to go dry in a second -if invaded by a Race with desert culture .


and a return to the armies . Can we have different kinds of armies ? Say a division that carries a single unit with increased hit points , a corps with 2 and an army proper with 3 or 4 ?

is there a limit to the number of "military academies" ? Can ı produce two or five armies at the same time ? This stems from the fact that this is to involve an space /Alien element as a sideline . Aliens might send scouts to Earth and they might be easily destroyed by the Spearman , who as everybody knows , eats tanks for lunch . But naturally earthly people might also reach heavens and ı don't want one plucky marine invading a whole planet all by himself .
 
Jorsalfare said:
I have made the first army-unit to hold only one foot-unit (mounted and wheeled units not allowed). This makes it easier for AI to use armies effectively, and doesn't make them too fast and powerful for the player (at least in the early stages of the game).
Click to expand...
I really like this idea, and have been thinking about modding a Conquests-biq along these lines for some time.

I would like to have 3 types of Armies (e.g. Ancient, Medieval and Industrial), all set to contain only a single unit (to allow the AI to use them, could be foot or wheeled), all with blitz, but with different numbers of bonus-HP (to simulate different-sized Armies), with similarly scaling nominal costs (but cheaper than the C3C Army, since my mod-Armies wouldn't be as powerful due to the 1-unit limit), and unlockable by appropriate techs, e.g.

Age|HP-bonus|Cost (shields)|Tech
Ancient|+3|100|None
Medieval|+6|150|Invention
Industrial|+9|200|Electronics

MGLs would convert to the Ancient-Age Army, MilAcad would allow the building of the Medieval-Army directly (perhaps with a Pop-cost of 1 citizen), and any upgrades would then be payable based on current known tech-level (although I don't know, if already-filled earlier-Age Armies would still be upgradeable?). Pentagon could be changed to increase the A/D bonus (as MilAcad does now), rather than to add an extra unit (which the AI can't use).

My hypothetical mod would also have era-/tech-dependent HP-bonuses for individual units, so Ancient and early-MedAge units would have no bonus, post-Gunpowder units would have +1HP, and post-Combustion units would have +2HP. Only units which did not require resources would be draftable, though! (I really hate encountering cMechInfs in the ModernAge!)
 
tjs282 said:
MGLs would convert to the Ancient-Age Army, MilAcad would allow the building of the Medieval-Army directly (perhaps with a Pop-cost of 1 citizen), and any upgrades would then be payable based on current known tech-level (although I don't know, if already-filled earlier-Age Armies would still be upgradeable?).
Click to expand...

Armies are upgradeable even when filled. Also, if you upgrade from an army holding 2 units to an army that only can hold 1 unit, the "surplus" unit will just be kicked out of the army and appear as a normal unit. To upgrade the army must be in a city with both barracks and an improvement that allows you to build armies as regular units. I suspect that AI won't upgrade it's armies - anyone seen that happen?

From reading in these foras and testing in my own mod, it seems that AI will load a unit in an army with capacity of one without problem. It is the following unit(s) that causes the problem, since a bug causes AI to only load the next unit(s) if they have one more movement point than the first unit. A way to "help" AI is to have early foot units with 2 movement points in order to let AI fill up armies that have more than one unit-slot. For what its worth: In my mod I frequently encounter AI armies containing more than one unit (even 3 and 4) on the battlefield.
 
r16 said:
thanks , for all the ideas . ı would follow the LotM example and make techs available only if one has the needed pre-tech that you can not research . 40 seems a good number and ı will follow that , too . There's also the option of placing a tech exactly on top of a former one , but it seems to be visually challenged as well . Say , you learn copper working and make iron working contingent on knowing copper . So that possibly iron working will appear in place of the box for copper .

for the settler , my lap-top might be doing tricks , ı don't exactly know . ı have no web connection at home and can't use anything apart from the Firaxis one , but having a "promising" scenario might invite help later .



thanks for the offer , but it seems to be too early . ı think ı should have a worthwhile thing at first .

is it possible to have a city graphic that covers 9 tiles instead of one ? An early idea was a Civ III version of the Master of Orion I . If possible such a thing might give an idea of spaceships landing troops on a planet , even if it was to remain a standart amphibious attack . Village-town-metropolis distinctions could be given by the number of lights on the dark side of the planet , while the daylight side might have been entirely covered by clouds . Considering we would feel sorry if an ocean planet was to go dry in a second -if invaded by a Race with desert culture .


and a return to the armies . Can we have different kinds of armies ? Say a division that carries a single unit with increased hit points , a corps with 2 and an army proper with 3 or 4 ?

is there a limit to the number of "military academies" ? Can ı produce two or five armies at the same time ? This stems from the fact that this is to involve an space /Alien element as a sideline . Aliens might send scouts to Earth and they might be easily destroyed by the Spearman , who as everybody knows , eats tanks for lunch . But naturally earthly people might also reach heavens and ı don't want one plucky marine invading a whole planet all by himself .
Click to expand...

Afaik, you can even have a city cover half the screen, but it won't be visible unless some unit of yours in relatively near it. Most of the sets i made after this exploit was discovered generally are up to twice the size of the original civ3 sets.
 
r16 said:
normal scenarios need 4 cities for each Army , can that be cut to 0 , so that there's no limit of Army numbers ? ı might do them far too overpowered for early eras and battle produced leaders shouldn't be wasted for a barracks or something similar .
Click to expand...

No. And importantly, if you set the number of cities needed for an army to 1, then I've heard the game seriously bugs out. Keep the number at 2, minimum.


r16 said:
does the AI settle when it begins the game on a single tile island ?
Click to expand...
Yep, so long as the terrain is settleable and it's not within a 1-tile radius of another city, it will settle.

r16 said:
The one or two times ı tested this the AI civ immediately died , is that because ı am forgetting something like giving 10 golds to each Civ at the beginning of the game ?
Click to expand...

Maybe you had them next to a volcano? This does seem to be a weird one.


nick0515 said:
One question about the older advanced auto-production method. If you have a stack of different units that are all king units which unit defends first? Does the game revert back to its normal process so the best defender would defend first?
Click to expand...

Exactly correct. One all of the non-King defending units are killed, the King defending units are picked via the normal "best defender" calculations.


r16 said:
and a return to the armies . Can we have different kinds of armies ? Say a division that carries a single unit with increased hit points , a corps with 2 and an army proper with 3 or 4 ?
Click to expand...

Yep. You can have as many different armies you want either produced by a building or built in cities with military academies (i.e. wonders which allow the building of armies).

r16 said:
is there a limit to the number of "military academies" ? Can ı produce two or five armies at the same time ?
Click to expand...

There's no limit on the amount of wonders which can be flagged with the "Build Armies" flag, and AFAIK no limit on the production of armies with the exception of the Cities per Army setting.
 
Thanks VC, I've been wondering about having an epic mod with all auto-produced king units (apart from one buildable unit of course). This solves one problem. The other problem of names I plan to solve by having no upgrades! Units would simply change their graphics with each era rather than upgrade.

I guess I could just give them an era-none tech though instead to stop the units being buildable and then have upgardes in the normal way if I wanted. But then I would have to mess around with unit pedia entries as civinator so elegantly demonstrates above.
 
Kyriakos said:
Afaik, you can even have a city cover half the screen, but it won't be visible unless some unit of yours in relatively near it. Most of the sets i made after this exploit was discovered generally are up to twice the size of the original civ3 sets.
Click to expand...

visibility ı can probably live with , but as said ı believe it's still too early for having specific demands . Thanks for the info .


Virote_Considon said:
No. And importantly, if you set the number of cities needed for an army to 1, then I've heard the game seriously bugs out. Keep the number at 2, minimum.



Yep, so long as the terrain is settleable and it's not within a 1-tile radius of another city, it will settle.



Maybe you had them next to a volcano? This does seem to be a weird one.
Click to expand...


thanks for the entire post . So it will at least two cities per army . As for the settler on a single tile , that's good to know . For the immediate death of the AI in that test game , the actual declaration was that ı had won a conquest victory just after ı settled and ended the turn , but then my copies of the game tend to be always weird .

and some "new" questions . Let's say ı invent a new resource about food ; now that none of the major cities can grow their food by themselves . Say , of 8 food and minus 5 for the cost of buying and transporting from the country side . Will that be 8 food and 0 gold in the game or will it be really -5 from the total beakers of the city ? Tested it once , couldn't tell as it was like another case of weirdness in the paragraph above .

and more on the hypertext bug that appears when there are too many units using the same resource . Does that happen with too many buildings as well ? Say 40 buildings in the modern era that requires steel for their structure ? Or 20 units and 20 buildings require coal in a steampunk scenario ?
 
r16 said:
thanks for the entire post . So it will at least two cities per army . As for the settler on a single tile , that's good to know . For the immediate death of the AI in that test game , the actual declaration was that ı had won a conquest victory just after ı settled and ended the turn , but then my copies of the game tend to be always weird .
Click to expand...

Ah, in that case are you sure you weren't next to a volcano which exploded?

If a volcano destroys your only remaining city, I'm pretty sure it makes you win the game for some weird reason. I don't think it lets the AI win if their only city is destroyed.

r16 said:
and some "new" questions . Let's say ı invent a new resource about food ; now that none of the major cities can grow their food by themselves . Say , of 8 food and minus 5 for the cost of buying and transporting from the country side . Will that be 8 food and 0 gold in the game or will it be really -5 from the total beakers of the city ? Tested it once , couldn't tell as it was like another case of weirdness in the paragraph above .
Click to expand...

You can't trade food from one city to another. You can trade population via units with the "Join City" flag, but a) the AI wouldn't know what to do with it, and b) you can only add units to a city which is currently "growing", not stagnating or starving.

r16 said:
and more on the hypertext bug that appears when there are too many units using the same resource . Does that happen with too many buildings as well ? Say 40 buildings in the modern era that requires steel for their structure ? Or 20 units and 20 buildings require coal in a steampunk scenario ?
Click to expand...

I believe it would, yes.
 
my latest scenarios were simple ones to test the units ı was downloading from the site . Two civs only , 100 barbarians and 100 units preplaced on the map , my city on grassland as much as the AI city was . Possibly would not happen again .

thanks for the answers . My hypothetical food supply is like a cow on the map , a bonus resource . Would produce 8 food and delete 5 coins from the treasury for every turn it was selected in the city screen . LotM has wolves as a resource . In forests where they are , you just get two shields , instead of the two shields and one food you should have from any forest tile .


ı am thinking of putting two very powerful AI civs , locked in combat against each other . And the player is supposed to come behind just like Incas or the Mayas in the regular Age of Conquest scenario by Firaxis . As such , they should always refuse giving away cities when threatened . How do ı achieve this ? Would nukes stuck in a corner of the map (and perfectly useless to drop on anybody due to range considerations) help ?
 
r16 said:
and more on the hypertext bug that appears when there are too many units using the same resource . Does that happen with too many buildings as well ? Say 40 buildings in the modern era that requires steel for their structure ? Or 20 units and 20 buildings require coal in a steampunk scenario ?
Click to expand...

Virote_Considon said:
I believe it would, yes.
Click to expand...

Yes, it defenitely does. And it can happen even in a concept file of the civilopedia. Per example I made a concept file for all heavy tanks in CCM version 2.00 including links to the different tanks, needed resources and nedded techs. 43 links in the concept entry - and I received the hyperlink bug, too, when opening the civilopedia entry for heavy tanks in CCM version 2.00.
 
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