SGOTM 09 - Murky Waters

Well, the scout move will get us even less information now. It's already established that south is not worst case. And there is not much to reveal with respect to added resources.
The northish move also will not be very likely to get us a lot more info.
I'm thinking best to do NW-SW, giving the most info about disadvantages moving east.
But I'm still not decided on settling 2E, if there are none. We still could settle W and make 2E the second city, or south and make another 3 food resource city in the north. Assuming the capital will be cottaged, it may well give it's food resources away most of the time.
 
I doubt settling with 2 corns and 1 fish speeds up our REX, because settlers have farther to go to settle. Any neighbors will be west-southwest-south. Settling to the northeast gives them maximum room to cramp us and also increases our distance costs by making our capital less central. I'm not smoking anything, hence I'm not having any pipe dreams about moving our capital.

Settling:

1W - a max of 16 cottages on non-resource flat tiles, 1 hill
1S - 13 such cottages, 4 hills
In place - 15 such cottages, 2 hills

Will we run Environmentalism (+2g windmills) throughout or spread Sushi with Free Market?
 
LC, just move the freekin scout NW-SW so we can start a proper discussion for the settlement site. :lol:
 
LC Turnset T0-T15

T0 4000BC
Mv scout NW SW. Tundra on the horizon and nothing else of note.
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continuing after post #137
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Revolt to Environmentalism and Police State.
MV settler 1S. river continues to the SE. Settling here gives us 6 river tiles. Game still likes settling on the hill and to the NW.

T1 3940BC
Scout NW-W, spots sheep on klarius' plains tile. Stopping temprorarily to post screenshot.
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continuing after post #143
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Settle Murky Waters. No surprises. Slightly bad news that SE-SE is a river tundra tile, because we can no longer settle on that tile, of course. There is also mystery ice lurking 1E of that tundra. Bonus: a river begins flowing south from the mountains! Overall, it appears we made the right choice for settling, imo.
Building wkr1. Researching Agri.


T2 3880BC
Scout W-NW. Nothing special. There is one fogged sea tile north of ice from the sheep. :confused:

T3 3820BC
Some news.
Our borders have expanded. The mystery ice cuts off galley movement to the south of the mountains and since we can't settle on the tundra tile SE-SE, Gyathaar has penalized us for picking the best capital site. We'll need a port south of the mountains. Or a fort on the tundra with Math and a city or fort to the NE.

But there's more: There is an off-shore barb city to the SE-SE, reachable only after a city's second border expansion. The barb city somehow has enough culture to have already expanded its borders. Guess this is at least some of Gyathaar's barb surprise--Barb cities.

I'm stopping again and posting a screenshot because I'm not sure how we want to scout before Agri. The scout is all tangled up in hills and woods. Do I defog everything to the west immediately or do I angle southeast, so that we will know better what we we've got when agri is done?
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continuing after post #159
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T4 3760BC
Scout SE, can see that scout can go S next without getting slowed down.

T5 3700BC
Scout S. Lots of useless tundra and barren plains tiles, with some woods.

T6 3640BC
Scout SE. Spots MARBLE!!! Careful examination of the fog shows that going SW will expose only one more tile. However, that tile is potentially in the FC of a marble settlement site and the only other food now visible are the sheep, so...
Scout SW. Cattle!!! On plains, though, so it's only a bit more food.

T7 3580BC
Agriculture researched.
Buddhism FIDL.
Scout SE-SE. A bottle of Wine found discarded on the arid plains. After moving I realized that I could have gone 1W and exposed two more plains tiles in marble potential FC. Not so smart.
Stopping per PPP to discuss what to research next. Save attached
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continuing after post #187
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T8 3520BC
Set research to AH
Wolf appears W of sheep
Scout SE-S into woods. Second wines. More plains tiles everyfriggingwhere.

T9 3460BC
Scout E-NE. Cows on river/coast. Five grass river tiles total, all else is forest/plains.

T10 3400BC
Scout SE-NE. Clams to NE. Fish to SE and rice on grass to S plus another grass tile. Gyathaar is becoming exceedingly generaous in his old age...:crazyeye:. Require two cities for all of them.

T11 3340BC
Worker1 complete. Starts farming.
Set build to warrior1.
Scout SW-SW.

T12 3280BC
Scout follows coast SW-SW. Two more coastal grass and some plains. Is this Canada or Siberia? No AI culture anywhere to be seen.

T13 3220BC
Scout SW-W to woods. No point in going S because scout will be limited to 1 tile down there next turn anyway. More wine, coastal grass, inland plains, and now desert to the west in the fog. Fog-gazing, looks like Florida forking down to the SE and the Gulf of Mexico to the South.

T14 3160BC
AH complete. No horses to be seen.
Corn farm1 done.
One turn to pop2.
No AI cutlure to be seen.

I haven't moved the scout yet, so we can fog-gaze to determine how far Florida continues and whether to explore it or skip it for now.

We also need to decide whether to research The Wheel or Writing next.

Save attached.
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continuing after post #198
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Scout S SE. Pigs on SE fork, floodplains in the fog on SW fork of land. Lion appears W-W-SW of pigs.

T15 3100BC
Scout (hasn't moved yet but) makes a CRITICAL DISCOVERY!!! Pay attention landlubbers. A barb battleship has appeared!!!. Okay, not a battleship, but almost. It is a CI/CII, NavigationI, Medic galley :eek::eek::eek::eek::cry::mad::D:lol::king::cool: :scan:;):)
That explains why Gyathaar put the ice down there, to protect our fish...
Save uploaded.
 

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Please note that Alan has posted a notice over at the Maintenance thread regarding the move-to arrows.
 
Well, there is still the question why the game thinks N-NW is a good spot to settle.
A resource 2N is pretty sure.
The game would also settle 3 NW in the ice. So there might be more goodies if settling W (or not :crazyeye:).
I'm now more confused than ever.
 
Please note that Alan has posted a notice over at the Maintenance thread regarding the move-to arrows.
Right. In other words, I can now report that the map is 84 tiles wide and we should be able to access some AIs with our airbuses. To the east of our eastern island there is land with only 4 water tiles in between, so I assume we can paratroop that gap without Astro, right? There seem to be relatively close landmasses to the west too, unless they're connected to ours.

I think the jesusin settle blinker is useful only for telling us where land is. Otherwise, it changes, even as the settler moves around. He likes a tile, he doesn't anymore. In any case, currently there are 18 out of 20 tiles he likes on the eastern island!!! There's also a huge cluster to the west, but still on our land mass (I think) and another cluster starting about 6 tiles to the south, just beyond the mountains. Then there are clusters at various places around the world. What do those clusters mean?

EDIT: By "currently" I meant before I moved the scout. I haven't checked if anything has changed since... :crazyeye:
 
The tile 3W of the settler looks like Tundra, and W-W-NW looks like plains. Settle in place is perhaps the best since we don't waste a turn moving? :confused:
 
The tile 3W of the settler looks like Tundra, and W-W-NW looks like plains. Settle in place is perhaps the best since we don't waste a turn moving? :confused:
EDIT: We don't waste a turn moving because we revolt this turn no matter what. (Even if we settle on the corn, it's better now than later, because we grow to pop2 and then finish the wb in 3t @5hpt).

I'm liking 1S:
+ uses the two tiles before the mountains, (but they may be tundra or otherwise useless.)
+ enables us to put a city up north to take advantage of the fish and a few more grass tiles.
+ That northern city can use the corn when 1S wouldn't be using it, which is fairly likely early on and also possible in the late game, as klarius pointed out. It also can help develop cottages for our capital before it has the happiness cap to work them all by itself.
+ more centrally located for distance costs and quicker settling
+ closer to AI so we can cut him/them off before they settle some sites
+ increases our zone of safety from barbs
+ gets some river tiles in the capital's FC

There's one other radical point no one has suggested: We could delay settling 2 turns and scout 1 turn with the settler, as in 2E, or E SE. Or 1S now and after the scout continues west, we might decide to go to the 1W position instead, if it's somehow better.

And other possibilities too probably.
.
 
Even if we settle on the corn, it's better now than later, because we grow to pop2 and then finish the wb in 3t @5hpt.
Settling on the corn we could have wb in 7 independent of PS.
2*2h (6f) + 4*3H (+8f) growth + 4h. Revolt could be delayed to after first settler or to BW if this is made a priority.
 
Right. In other words, I can now report that the map is 84 tiles wide and we should be able to access some AIs with our airbuses. To the east of our eastern island there is land with only 4 water tiles in between, so I assume we can paratroop that gap without Astro, right? There seem to be relatively close landmasses to the west too, unless they're connected to ours.

I think the jesusin settle blinker is useful only for telling us where land is. Otherwise, it changes, even as the settler moves around. He likes a tile, he doesn't anymore. In any case, currently there are 18 out of 20 tiles he likes on the eastern island!!! There's also a huge cluster to the west, but still on our land mass (I think) and another cluster starting about 6 tiles to the south, just beyond the mountains. Then there are clusters at various places around the world. What do those clusters mean?

EDIT: By "currently" I meant before I moved the scout. I haven't checked if anything has changed since... :crazyeye:

Interesting. If that eastern island is Shangri-La we may be sorry if we don't settle on the coast.
 
Interesting. If that eastern island is Shangri-La we may be sorry if we don't settle on the coast.
The settling recommendation doesn't mean that it is a particularly good site. It just means the found value is >0 and there is no adjacent revealed tile with a bigger found value. Deep in the fog it's pretty meaningless.
Interesting is that N-NW is better than N-N although it misses 2 resources and has 2 zero food tiles more.
1 resource is explained by the resource under 2N. But there has to be another resource (probably 2) in the 5 tiles not shared.

Edit:
I played a bit around with WB. Putting metal on the tundra hill and under 2N and fur on the ice forest isn't enough to shift the recommendation from 2N to N-NW. Only when I put a food (not metal) resource to the plains 2W of the scout I get the shift.
 
But klarius, how do you explain the light showing up for a particular tile one turn, then moving the settler and next turn it doesn't show for that tile any more? Try in on your original test save and you can see what I mean.
 
But klarius, how do you explain the light showing up for a particular tile one turn, then moving the settler and next turn it doesn't show for that tile any more? Try in on your original test save and you can see what I mean.
I can explain that one. The game "forgets" all the resources you can't see as soon as you move the settler.
 
I can explain that one. The game "forgets" all the resources you can't see as soon as you move the settler.
Sorry, but you lost me on that one. It still lights the settle icon after I move the settler, just for different locations. The resources aren't changing, the computer is just changing its own mind. Why?
 
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