NEW Deity Challenge discussion thread

If you have anything you want to say about the series or the individual games, or what you'd like to see in the future, this is the place to do it.

I'll also make announcements, etc. here

Game #1 - The Ottomans - is still open and still yet to have a domination win
Game #2 - The Maya - is just up and should be great fun for anyone who wants to experiment with the changes to Culture and Science (or any VC, for that matter)

Game #3 will be The Arabs in 10-14 days
Game #4 will be France 10-14 days after that

First of all, let me say that I'm looking forward to playing these maps. What I've read about the NQ mods have me licking my proverbial chops. I had planned on kidnapping one of my techie friends and going on a computer buying binge this week, but I'm sidelined with a sciatic issue (new ailment for me and one I wouldn't wish on anyone) and the drugs are pretty overwhelming (mmmmmm Valium...).

That said, during a rare moment of coherence, I thought I'd weigh in on the topic with a few (nitpicking) thoughts.

1. The title. Calling it the NEW series claims that term for all future series. Could we not be more accurate and call it the Mod Deity Challenge Series. That would be more specific, prevent the more casual visitors here from wasting time trying to load a game they can't play, and would avoid the unintended implication that other challenge series were no longer in effect.

2. Schedule. I don't think I'm alone in wanting to play more than one series. Besides the CDG bi-monthly games, there is also the Immortal series that seem quite popular. Posting the second map in this series before most have even had the chance to finish the first (or the last 2-3 CDG games) seems a bit premature. Perhaps a bi-monthly schedule like the 10th and 25th of each month would work? For the more casual players who want to participate in a series, maybe even one per month is adequate. I know you've worked hard on creating fun and challenging maps and waiting to post them is hard, but I think too much quantity risks the quality being fully appreciated.

Consentient, I like this idea and love your maps (usually....when your sadistic side isn't apparent), but think they would benefit from just a bit more planning and coordination.

My only question is, are you going to post only NQ maps, other balance chances mod could be fun too, only played NQ and acken mods so far, dunno if there is other interesting one.
If the serie is to explore NQmod in depth i understand it and will try maps, but it's way too hard for me, looks like it's deity+, didn't manage to make anything good in the ottoman game.

Phenril said:

If the serie is to explore NQmod in depth i understand it and will try maps, but it's way too hard for me, looks like it's deity+, didn't manage to make anything good in the ottoman game.

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That's exactly how I felt when I first made the jump from Immortal to Deity. It is very hard, until you learn the nuances like different diplo and preparation for bigger carpets.

I've had the chance to watch some videos of games with the NQ and Acken mods. Although they are different, it seems to me that a similar adjustment in play style will develop and the new/different challenges can be overcome.

Personally, I can't fathom the amount of time and effort it took to create these mods, but I'm very thankful that people put in that work. Even a game as complex as Civ can become tedious after awhile, and this variety is most welcome. I'll be playing (and losing) these modded games very soon.

@Holy Diver

I don't think it'd be a good idea to call it "Mod Challenge" because we will be seeing another challenge series with the Acken Mod. The CDG series also uses mods every now and then.

I think NQ Series or NQ Mod Series would be much more fitting, precise and would help avoid confusion.

@Phenril

Try the second map posted. The Ottoman one definitely is unusually hard.

Shark Diver said:

1. The title. Calling it the NEW series claims that term for all future series. Could we not be more accurate and call it the Mod Deity Challenge Series. That would be more specific, prevent the more casual visitors here from wasting time trying to load a game they can't play, and would avoid the unintended implication that other challenge series were no longer in effect.

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yung.carl.jung said:

I don't think it'd be a good idea to call it "Mod Challenge" because we will be seeing another challenge series with the Acken Mod. The CDG series also uses mods every now and then.

I think NQ Series or NQ Mod Series would be much more fitting, precise and would help avoid confusion.

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I don't care about casual visitors, and I don't think there are too many of those for a six-year old game whose successor is impending. The CDG was more or less my idea at the start, and I named it, so no one can really say that I'm disrespecting it by calling this one the 'NEW Deity Challenge'. After I abandoned it, the CDG has come under pretty much communal control, and there is a hardcore of people that clearly want to see it continue, so it probably will. But the CDG is a base game series, and one that often has very heavily cooked maps. It's the eccentric end of series, nothing wrong with that. But the games are also not so challenging. When I was the host of the DCL I took a lot of flak for making maps that were deemed too easy. I now have those sentiments myself about the CDG, and find the NQ mod has reinvigorated my interest. The NEW Deity Challenge is designed to be, overall, a bit harder.

TLDR: I don't think there's a problem with calling it the NEW Deity Challenge because the emphasis is returned to the challenge, and it's NEW. I don't want to call it the NQ anything because NQ stands for No Quitters and that's obviously not relevant to SP games. Frankly, I'd like it if George (the modder) released the next version with a different name. I'll ask him about that.

Shark Diver said:

2. Schedule. I don't think I'm alone in wanting to play more than one series. Besides the CDG bi-monthly games, there is also the Immortal series that seem quite popular. Posting the second map in this series before most have even had the chance to finish the first (or the last 2-3 CDG games) seems a bit premature. Perhaps a bi-monthly schedule like the 10th and 25th of each month would work? For the more casual players who want to participate in a series, maybe even one per month is adequate. I know you've worked hard on creating fun and challenging maps and waiting to post them is hard, but I think too much quantity risks the quality being fully appreciated.

Click to expand...

If people don't have the time to play maps, they don't have to. The Immortal series is popular, but is not the same thing, and again, I'm not going to be drawn into comparisons with the CDG. I will continue to post maps for this series every 10-14 days. Play them or don't

[EDIT: I suspect that if Sharky had already gotten his new Windows machine by the time of the first challenge, he'd have had no problems playing both maps all the way through ]

Phenril said:

My only question is, are you going to post only NQ maps...If the serie is to explore NQmod in depth i understand it and will try maps, but it's way too hard for me, looks like it's deity+, didn't manage to make anything good in the ottoman game.

Click to expand...

I can second what was said above about the Ottoman map being hard. It was labelled as hard. The Maya one is easy. The next one after that will be Medium. I will have a mix.

And yes, all maps will be NQ maps.

- - - - -

So thanks for your input, but the schedule is not really negotiable. Almost everything else is. As for the name, I don't really care about names, and all I've done is drop the L for Lineup, which I never really understood anyway.

These are Deity challenges for those that want to try something new.

Hence New Deity Challenge.

seems fair to me, i dont really like the chalenge maps, i play the deity ones without focusing on them because i'm still trying to improve(and immortal is a bit boring now), and i'm not good enough to make suboptimal plays to try the chalenges.

Started the maya map and it seems like winnable compared to the ottaman one but i still think it's a bit harder than the unmoded deity. probably the religious buff that makes AI snowball even faster than before.

waiting for the france map the new UA seems pretty powerful.

From a religion standpoint, not all AIs are going Piety like before, and the last religion is regularly taken after T75, which almost never happens on unmodded Deity.

You might have to adjust your plan, make better use of bribes and forward settles, and build more units, but the AI is saner and more predictable than before, IMO. I think it's harder, but I'm not sure it's particularly noticeable on the Maya map.

For sure most players could get a SV before the AI on that map. Culture might be a tad more tricky, because the AI produces more of it, and the human gets more policies, but hey, at least Rationalism isn't necessary anymore!

Note that I'll just call mine Acken mod challenge. I'll also make the difficulty level vary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqac6U-8Gsg This was posted yesterday, haven't watched it yet but just in case anyone else was curious its a 50 minute review of NQMOD 10 which is used extensively in this series.

Just a couple points…

consentient said:

But the CDG is a base game series, and one that often has very heavily cooked maps. It's the eccentric end of series, nothing wrong with that. But the games are also not so challenging.

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We only had the one “very heavily cooked” map -- and that was for April Fools. Of course, you did tweak the Assyrian map (to take founding out of play, as I recall). Whatever other modifications you and others have done so far have been subtle enough to go unnoticed! The DCL maps were occasionally tweaked as well, so it seems to me that so far we have continued in the vein. And no, vanilla BNW Deity is not challenging as compared to NQ and Ackens. But judging from the limited responses and the stories, I think the Denmark and Byzantium maps were as challenging anything in the DCL series. I also disagree with the ”not so challenging” characterization in general — but your idea from the start was to rotate between easy, medium, and hard maps!

So it looks like we are going to see CDG games, NEW series games, and Acken mod games?

I happen to like the idea of all three, but not all three at the same time.

I'm not going to give long-winded reasons for that conclusion, as I think it's self-evident.

I think consentient put it very well when he said that the IAG just is not for everyone on this board and that if people want to play it, they do. if they don't, they'll pick another challenge. Some people need more of a challenge in order to have fun playing this 6 year old game. Of course this applies the other way around, too. I think a lot of people that just came to the S&T forum won't get very far in the Acken Mod or NEW Deity Challenge series and therefore stick to the IAG and CDG. I personally think a bigger selection will not be harmful in any way, just beneficial. Speaking for me personally I just can't play the IAG or CDG. I don't like the base game anymore, not because of difficulty, I play for the mental challenge and for finishing times mostly, not for winning. The unmodded game just is not nearly as much fun. I love all great people being on a separate counter, not being punished for using engineers and merchants. It adds so much diversity. I adore the new social policy trees where almost every option is viable. I cannot live without an AI that is able to at least somewhat competently employ their military. These make the game far more enjoyable for me. I'm just happy there will be a more or less official way to play the modded game; a way to play the modded game where I can share it with others, talk through strategies and read up on their write ups. I'm certain the CDG will not lose any visitors. Who knows, maybe the new challenges will help draw more people to this fairly small board?

Schedule for forthcoming maps: