Using Liberty with Carthage?

Happiness is the limiter on expansion. Gold won't help much in that regards especially if it is not too much better than what you'd normally get. That's my assessment on deity however.

Yup, thats why liberty is sometimes difficult to use.
 
I already recorded a few episodes and I am underwhelmed by the extra gold from the harbors. The city connections without roads are not making too much of a difference. The harbors also weren't helpful as it took me forever to meet multiple AI's and the routes with the ones I knew were quite poor.

Overall, its nice to save on the maintenance for roads, but it is hardly a game-changer. Having a harbor in every city for trade routes also doesn't do much more than having just built it in your best trade city I fear...

Well the free harbor saves 2 gold per turn on maintenance and the 120 hammer cost.
Typically you will probably have about 5 tiles of road between cities so that is approximately 7 gold per turn.
Then there is the benefit in not requiring workers to build roads so they can focus entirely on improvements.
That said there is the chance if you are on a continent that you may need roads between cities to move military around more quickly but this probably isn't necessary until the mid-game.

Other benefits I can think of
- Easier spread of religion to cities & city states further away via trade routes
- Earlier access to Citystates for trade route quests
- Earlier access to Seaports for all cities
- Immediate bonus from Meritocracy & Naval Tradition (that gives a new city quite a bit of free happiness to keep it growing)

Is it gamebreaking - not really but it does remove some of the challenges that playing wide does.
They could probably have done with a couple of tweaks like Germany & Japan got in the old fall patch: Something like a +25% production bonus towards cargo ships and an a free cargo ship & trade route in the capital when you discover Optics.
 
Well the free harbor saves 2 gold per turn on maintenance and the 120 hammer cost.
Typically you will probably have about 5 tiles of road between cities so that is approximately 7 gold per turn.
Then there is the benefit in not requiring workers to build roads so they can focus entirely on improvements.
That said there is the chance if you are on a continent that you may need roads between cities to move military around more quickly but this probably isn't necessary until the mid-game.

Other benefits I can think of
- Easier spread of religion to cities & city states further away via trade routes
- Earlier access to Citystates for trade route quests
- Earlier access to Seaports for all cities
- Immediate bonus from Meritocracy & Naval Tradition (that gives a new city quite a bit of free happiness to keep it growing)

Is it gamebreaking - not really but it does remove some of the challenges that playing wide does.
They could probably have done with a couple of tweaks like Germany & Japan got in the old fall patch: Something like a +25% production bonus towards cargo ships and an a free cargo ship & trade route in the capital when you discover Optics.

Yeah you could have all these neat unique ships that cost a lot of production to build.. :/
Examples are cargo ships and great galleases. .. technology is important such as navigation for frigates sometimes.
 
I am just coming back to this thread to mention that the Messengers of the Gods pantheon is very strong for Carthage and has synergy with a Liberty play. That may be old news, but it was a new idea for me. Also, the current DCL is Dido.
 
Happiness is the limiter on expansion. Gold won't help much in that regards especially if it is not too much better than what you'd normally get. That's my assessment on deity however.

Gold and happiness are both limiting factors to wide liberty. Liberty cities don't generate the kind of gold to keep up with the extra workers/units/city maintenance needed to support them unless you come up with other sources. You can (inefficiently) translate gold into happiness pretty readily through any number of purchasing structures and city state luxuries, if you had infinite quantities. So, while happiness is a problem for liberty, gold is truly an issue there as well.

This is part of the reason early wide strats are dependent on religion, which can give more gold and happiness than you'd get otherwise including some respectable per-city stuff.
 
Gold and happiness are both limiting factors to wide liberty. Liberty cities don't generate the kind of gold to keep up with the extra workers/units/city maintenance needed to support them unless you come up with other sources. You can (inefficiently) translate gold into happiness pretty readily through any number of purchasing structures and city state luxuries, if you had infinite quantities. So, while happiness is a problem for liberty, gold is truly an issue there as well.

This is part of the reason early wide strats are dependent on religion, which can give more gold and happiness than you'd get otherwise including some respectable per-city stuff.

I won't disagree that gold is important, especially to a wide strategy. Gold can definitely help, but if you have to sink it into happiness buildings rather than helping your empire in growth/science/production then at best it helps "keep up" with tradition. Not sure the bonus gold from Carthage is enough for it to make a real difference. Also, city states only go so far as usually they all have a very similar set of luxuries.
 
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