CE vs SE - historical abstraction or simply a game mechanic?

The "cottage economy vs. specialist economy" question is definately one of the most fundamental strategy topics of Civ 4/Bts. It's an important decision that every player has to make each game.

Do you believe that this feature is primarily just a game mechanism or really an abstract representation of history? I understand that it is, of course, a game mechanic and that Civ 4 is a game and not a historical simulation. But most of Civ 4's game mechanics attempt to represent history. Some succeed more than others. But I'm not really certain what historical situation the CE vs. SE question is intended to reflect. When players debate running state property or free market, everyone knows what this arguement represents historically. It's a very abstact representation, though I think it's well implemented -especially considering the scope of Civ 4. But with the CE vs. SE issue, I'm far from certain. Would anyone please offer some ideas? thanks in advance

Are you asking whether to use a CE or SE or something else...?

If you use NO cottages or NO specialists you are just being silly.

They both have their uses.

No, I'm not asking which one to use and I know that in every game you more or less have to choose one.

I'm wondering what the differences between a cottage economy and a specialist economy represent historically. In real history, did Elizabeth I run a cottage economy or a specialist economy? It's very abstract but we know, for instance, that Henry XIII ran the hereditary rule civic and that Franco ran the facism civic. Because of the scope of Civ 4, these are very abstract representations -but they are representations nonetheless. But what does a cottage economy represent as apposed to a specialist economy? I'm not sure. but I'd like to have some idea, just for the sake of imagination when I'm playing and deciding which one to use.

Funny when I first started playing Civ 4 I did think there was definite attempt in the game to follow history. Not sure I still believe that but here was my early theory. I think most people agree that SE is pretty strong early and then CE comes to the fore at the end of the game. I always thought of cottages as representing the industrial revolution and the transition from trade/barter ( i.e. raw production economies either from whipping or working mines) to a commerce economies of the 19th century and on.

This is deep.

I'd say that it would be mostly a Hybrid economy, early cottages would have been where the taxman went and visited every month, and in real life Great People sort of just happened through self teaching or by hanging around the Parthenon mixing with other like-minded individuals.

Of course it's not in any way a reflection of reality!

How exactly does one run a specialist economy in the real world? Using real specialists doesnt make great specialists pop up.

In reality, you dont build a bunch of houses wherever you want to increase tax.

These are entirely game mechanics - while they are used to reflect elements of the real world, they aren't somehow capturing differing core economic principles.

Not to sound like an arrogant american here but I always figured that the cottages/towns represented the towns and smaller cities that can't be considered the suburbs of another more major city. The other way I always figured it was that all of your buildings have to go somewhere, eventually the much smaller towns get more revenue because of it.

And where as no you can't just build houses to make taxes, you can build infrastructure in 'hamlets' to make them villages and towns.

And the specialist economy isn't really an economy its more of a supplementary thing in my opinion. Where as you can't run an entire city off of specialists, you need farmers/slaves/workers somewhere, they do supplement your city and inspire others leading to great people. How many people go to hollywood each year just because of the movie stars? *artists and maybe a few greats* How many people go to Vegas each year for the gambling? *merchants* Just examples.

California was once a SE: all farms + scientists inventing atom bombs.

Now it is all cottage spam

Actually, it is quite simple and historically accurate Marshall. Nomadic societies had to move around in pursue of food, clothes and shelter, their people did not have the time neither the infraestructure to commit themselves to any other major activity. When domestication of animals and agriculture started to grow amongst these tribes settling was feasible, even necesary to cultivate the land and grow the livestock. So with people staying in a spot (primarly along fertile rivers and lakes) infraestructure came along, and with surplus food there was no need for every man in town to work the land, thus specialization appeared. Folks commited to other needed activities learned how to perform them better than others. Priests, builders first, merchants and artists later.. etc.
On the other hand, cottages, hamlets, villages and towns, represent minor developing settlements running their local economies around a major big city to which they are linked (civ mechanics here centralizes all their output towards the city providing the pop point that works the settlement) as opposed to be using that land/tile for farming, thus providing the surplus food you need for specialists.

I believe a true civ player should't neglect either of these economic methods nor abuse any one of them. Specially in the mid to late game.
Also there is always the old and perfectly feasible WE to run ( War Econoooomy), though this won't last for long.

Marshall Thomas said:

Do you believe that this feature is primarily just a game mechanism or really an abstract representation of history?

Click to expand...

This has been discussed before.

To wit:

"The growth of cottages reflects the growth of the urban, bourgeois-commerical middle-class. The economic endeavours of that class leads to the generation a GNP, which the society in question then through various processes (such as taxation) can allocate as saved money(gold), science and culture. Science and culture slider settings in this case are reflected by societal trends where free-market forces are driving the GNP into either research projects or media projects.

Specialists represent state employees who supply a fixed benefit to the state proportional to their speciality and who are insulated from the general economy and hence do not follow the societal trends represented by slider settings."