Refraining from spy activity?

In CTP player can ask each other to refrain from spying/pirating activity. I think this should be introduced in BtS.
Each time a spy's caught causing trouble (stealing tech, poisoning water, etc) there will be a -2 diplo penalty. If the spy is caught while there is such a treaty in place, the penalty will be doubled to -4, or give the offended player the choice to declare war, in addition, there will be a -1 or -2 penalty with every civ (for showing allegedly "bad character"). AI should be programmed to largely respect such agreement, but when they have a strategic plan to do certain things, they would disregard this agreement. This should work like Right of Passage in civ3, if a civ is caught violating spying agreement for a few times.

I like it. That way you are able to tailor your espionage.

The AI in SP tends to really hit you with spy missions. Some games it would be nice to disable spying altogether.

more options for diplomacy and spying can only be a good thing, the 2 worst systems of the game really need some hard work put into them.

If a mod could be made to introduce this, I'd use it.

I don't suspect that Firaxis will be adding any features.

I like your idea. Given the AI's love of spies, it might even things out a bit diplomatically. As it is, the human tends to collect more negatives for refusing tribute, civic changes, etc. The AI's would tend to collect more negatives for spies being caught. It would give the human player more incentive to go for, uh, "true" diplomacy wins.

I hate to say it, but I'm not optimistic Firaxis is open to making significant changes to the spy system.

To be honest, if there was a checkbox for enabling/disabling spying in the custom game setup, I'd probably disable it. I like the passive effects of spying, and dislike just about everything else. I will eventually get around to neutering it through some kind of XML mod. I'll probably just make all the missions I don't like cost an exorbitant amount of points or something.

wouldn't it undermine the whole espionage system? the point in spying is that you can be frendly with a civ and agree to everything they want, but cripple their economy witout them knowing.

If a mod would be implemented so that the spy unit would be deleted, it'd solve my problems. No problem with the passive powers, but the disease and unrest. YUCK.

the AI doesn't actually care about your attitude towards them. unless human players have + - modifiers for relations, they see no reason to keep good relations because there's no repercussions.

plus a lot of times they don't tell you which civ the spy that performed mission is from so how would you know who to ask to refrain?

but best solution would be to just remove espionage from the game. it sucks ass.

qwertz said:

wouldn't it undermine the whole espionage system? the point in spying is that you can be frendly with a civ and agree to everything they want, but cripple their economy witout them knowing.

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We just need to make it so that refusing to sign this agreement would not cause diplomatic tension.

Diamondeye said:

If a mod would be implemented so that the spy unit would be deleted, it'd solve my problems. No problem with the passive powers, but the disease and unrest. YUCK.

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you could make 'em unbuildable really easy.

go into CIV4UnitInfos.xml and find the section starting with
<UnitInfo>
<Class>UNITCLASS_SPY</Class>
<Type>UNIT_SPY</Type>
<UniqueNames/>
<Special>SPECIALUNIT_PEOPLE</Special>

try changing <iCost>40</iCost>

to <iCost>-1</iCost> maybe. that's the value for great people and barb animals, must make them not-buildable for players and the AI i suppose? not sure, never tried that way, so copy first, poster not responsible if your pc blows up, etc.

if that doesn't work, this will:

change
<PrereqTech>TECH_ALPHABET</PrereqTech>
to <PrereqTech>TECH_FUTURE_TECH</PrereqTech>

maybe
<iCost>40</iCost>
to 1000 also, just in case the game really does get far enough for future tech *giggle*.

Minmaster said:

the AI doesn't actually care about your attitude towards them. unless human players have + - modifiers for relations, they see no reason to keep good relations because there's no repercussions.

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That is a general problem with the diplomacy system. (ideally the human would have those modifiers, calculated the exact same way the AIs are, but add on a happiness benefit/penalty when your actions don't match your attitude)

You idea is good. but the AI may need to face a big change in order to evaluate who to plan and who would be the spied target, the risk and cost.

I've only recently started utilizing the spy improvements on BTS . I usually use spies for a single mission , and thats helping flip cities over to me . I've lately been playing mainly creative civs and been engaged in the process of flipping enemy cities to my control , especially if they have valuable resources I just want .

Its a peaceful method of domination . Basically I caste system , temporarly set most of my city specialists to artists . Usually I pump out a couple GAs ( I also shoot to be the first to music) . Then I drop some culture bombs on bordering cities . I also build theatres , monuments , etc , to maximize the culture . Then I train a few spies ( in case one fails , I also pump some money into espianage for , how borat would say , ' great success') and I use the spies to instigate revolts . Basically when I click on the plot their city is on and see like ( 88% Greek which is me , and 12 % Arabian which is the AI) I know know its a matter of time .

Theres nothing wrong with the diplomacy system other than the fact that its a pain to go look up the change every turn or so, which can be very necessary at higher levels. There needs to be a mod for assisting in diplomacy. For example it could notify you when someone changes stances towards you rapidly so you know which front to station your armies on.

(I know you can guestimate like Toka, Napo, Mont, Genghis, or any other . .. .. .. .. .. .. . isn't pleased or friendly you got trouble. but still....

PS I always enjoying razing their civilizations, I hate those f*ckers the number of games they have ruined)

GT_OKEZ said:

I've only recently started utilizing the spy improvements on BTS . I usually use spies for a single mission , and thats helping flip cities over to me . I've lately been playing mainly creative civs and been engaged in the process of flipping enemy cities to my control , especially if they have valuable resources I just want ...
.

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Yeah first few games of BTS I stayed away from spy missions but I found it really useful. You can get a lot of free techs that way. And then leverage them for more techs.
BTw I was getting really annoyed by spy activity in my territory so I started the habit of keeping at least one spy in each city at all times and focusing a lot on espionage buildings (a lot of which offer great other benefits anyway.)

Plus I found that spy missions can really aid a warmongering civ who can't afford to run more 40-50% tech/culture/spy points with out going bankrupt. Its a cheap way combined with forceable to stay on the tech curve while acquiring more cities/great generals than everyone for super units.

Thanks for the tip KMad, but I really haven't got the patience to fumble around with these XML files. I'm too lazy *giggle*