Commenting in general, agricultural (i.e. this includes food) production has risen over the centuries due to increased agricultural productivity, but especially in the 19-20th centuries due to the industrial revolution. IMO the best way to simulate the latter would be a tech-building combo - perhaps doubling the food generated per farmland square. (Just a thought.)
We need more food
- Thread starter Genghis_Kai
- Start date
Commenting in general, agricultural (i.e. this includes food) production has risen over the centuries due to increased agricultural productivity, but especially in the 19-20th centuries due to the industrial revolution. IMO the best way to simulate the latter would be a tech-building combo - perhaps doubling the food generated per farmland square. (Just a thought.)
ianinsane
Prince
To tie in with that: I suggest a 4 ary farming system.
1. Conventional farm. Improvement. Standard farming improvement. Food production as in Vanilla civ after discovering biology.
2. Modern farming. Technology. Raises the output of Conventional farms by 1 (or more?).
3. Genetically Modified farming. Feature. Works like weapons licenses via resource trade. Raises the output of Conventional farms by 1 (or more?). Adds +0.5
per farm tile.More detailed info:
Spoiler :
4. Organic Farm. Improvement. You can replace your conventional farm by an organic farm. Those gain the same bonus as conventional farms would without the modern farming tech. Additionally it gives +0.5
(or more?) per organic farm tile in a city's fat cross. Organic farms are not affected by the import of hybrid seeds.I think these 4 are would not be very hard to implement as they are no completely new concepts but slight alterations of concepts that are already there.
Genghis_Kai
GEM modder
Unless we are doing some kind of food export/import system (which would be very interesting but difficult to implement), any of the method we suggested here will still be far from realistic anyway. So I would suggest to implement which ever way is easiest.
Please also consider flexibility as well. I think it would be best to implement a combination of global (such as technology or civic bonus that apply to the whole nation) and local methods (such as adding great person or buildings specific to a city).
Please also consider flexibility as well. I think it would be best to implement a combination of global (such as technology or civic bonus that apply to the whole nation) and local methods (such as adding great person or buildings specific to a city).
To tie in with that: I suggest a 4 ary farming system.
1. Conventional farm. Improvement. Standard farming improvement. Food production as in Vanilla civ after discovering biology.
2. Modern farming. Technology. Raises the output of Conventional farms by 1 (or more?).
3. Genetically Modified farming. Feature. Works like weapons licenses via resource trade. Raises the output of Conventional farms by 1 (or more?). Adds +0.5
More detailed info:
Spoiler :
4. Organic Farm. Improvement. You can replace your conventional farm by an organic farm. Those gain the same bonus as conventional farms would without the modern farming tech. Additionally it gives +0.5
I think these 4 are would not be very hard to implement as they are no completely new concepts but slight alterations of concepts that are already there.
Too complicated, the AI won't know what to do.
Now is the time to think small. Save new big ideas for version 2.
yes, agreed. That and a tile I think are the way to go.
ianinsane, your ideas may work as techs, which will simply give a bonus to existing farms, without changing the farm improvement. But setting up anything more than that is too much work for us right now, we have enough on our plates as it is.
"Genetically Modified farming"- can we keep this out of the game for the simple reason that it makes me sick to my stomach? I do not want to give Monsanto any credit while they are forcing people into poverty and starvation. It is bad enough that they basically own the university I attend. Let's leave suicide seeds out of our mod. Nuclear war on a grand scale I think is bad enough. lol
ianinsane
Prince
lol. I can totally understand you. But on the other hand that is exactly the reason why I'd like to see it included. Even if it is only for V2. We'll have arms trade, ethnic cleansing, genocide, huge nuclear arsenals, global warming and we'll simulate them with all their disastrous effects. So why not those mad scientists that are trying to get the whole food production in the world into their greedy hands? It should be realistic to let unhappiness, unhealthiness, starvation and dependence in big parts of the world pay make small parts of the world rich and powerful.
True enough pal, certainly something to think about for the next version. 
I just have to see their logo every day driving in and out of school. After learning how they force poor farmers in the developed world to use seeds that are genetically modified to die after one season for no other reason than their own profit, it makes me angry. (If you haven't seen "The Corporation", watch it!) Anyway, you're right, we are trying to represent the world as it is, not as I wish it were. Plus one of our main rules is; no politics. It's a good idea, we'll see what we can do down the road.
For now though, for the problem Genghis Kai has raised here, we will have to use quicker fixes.
I just have to see their logo every day driving in and out of school. After learning how they force poor farmers in the developed world to use seeds that are genetically modified to die after one season for no other reason than their own profit, it makes me angry. (If you haven't seen "The Corporation", watch it!) Anyway, you're right, we are trying to represent the world as it is, not as I wish it were. Plus one of our main rules is; no politics. It's a good idea, we'll see what we can do down the road.
For now though, for the problem Genghis Kai has raised here, we will have to use quicker fixes.
ianinsane
Prince
yeah, and they use my university (which has a huge agricultural dept) to do this kind of research. 
sucks
On a lighter note, we had a professor spend I think 15-20 years trying to prove that organic farming DOESN'T work as well as standard (chemical) modern farming. He couldn't, and now is an advocate for organic.
Link (17 years in fact.)
sucks
On a lighter note, we had a professor spend I think 15-20 years trying to prove that organic farming DOESN'T work as well as standard (chemical) modern farming. He couldn't, and now is an advocate for organic.
Link (17 years in fact.)
I think maybe a good question to ask yourself when you try to address these problems is, "Where did the food come from in reality?" So answering these might help you remember that all of our suggestions aren't mutually exclusive; the solution might vary based upon the particular city.
Tokyo gets a great deal of its food from fishing, so you might want to simply add a building called something like "fishing company" to the city, that gives additional food bonuses on top of the lighthouse. In situations like Las Vegas, it's really not as arid as people think; as it's built on an oasis and near to a river, but the extra food can be further aproximated by adding lots of merchants, as commerce is what brought them their major growth. In the case of Mexico city, that does seem to be more of a "City of 1,000 Slums" situation, but since most surrounding tiles would be hills or mountains, that really doesn't provide for all that much food. Going a different route, you could add a "ghetto" building (although the graphic should be a group of buildings) to the city, basically significant of being a mass of immigrants; you could also do that for New York and Los Angeles, as although it's a port city, the economy is less emphasized on fishing. The effect of the ghetto could be to boost food (and population in turn), culture, and production, but increase city upkeep costs and unhealthiness as a trade-off.
Tokyo gets a great deal of its food from fishing, so you might want to simply add a building called something like "fishing company" to the city, that gives additional food bonuses on top of the lighthouse. In situations like Las Vegas, it's really not as arid as people think; as it's built on an oasis and near to a river, but the extra food can be further aproximated by adding lots of merchants, as commerce is what brought them their major growth. In the case of Mexico city, that does seem to be more of a "City of 1,000 Slums" situation, but since most surrounding tiles would be hills or mountains, that really doesn't provide for all that much food. Going a different route, you could add a "ghetto" building (although the graphic should be a group of buildings) to the city, basically significant of being a mass of immigrants; you could also do that for New York and Los Angeles, as although it's a port city, the economy is less emphasized on fishing. The effect of the ghetto could be to boost food (and population in turn), culture, and production, but increase city upkeep costs and unhealthiness as a trade-off.
Ok, the problem I see possibly arising from that is, if we make a building to do it... we'd have to make it very very expensive right, so every AI city won't become 30 million people right away.
However, with this, won't the AI waste time building this in cities that don't need it? It becomes another AI trap.
However, with this, won't the AI waste time building this in cities that don't need it? It becomes another AI trap.
ianinsane
Prince
I saw a certain Japanese fish market world wonder, I think it was in Total Realism. I can check that but I won't be home until this weekend. So if somebody knows more earlier...
This could be a way for Tokyo.
That's a nice idea. I like it. Although I think it should be called simply "Slums". But it should also raise unhappiness. This could work for cities like Mexico City, Lagos, Cairo, Calcutta etc.
But looking further into the future I think we need another building that can replace the Slums later in game. Those cities should have a chance to get rid of their slums one day in the 2040s. I suggest a building called "Arcology", unlocked by a certain future tech, having the same effects without the negative trade-offs.
ianinsane
Prince
Forum search said that it's called "Tsukiji Fish Market". It makes water tiles produce +1 food and it's from Sevomod (with GIR Add-On).
And it is located in Tokyo.
And it is located in Tokyo.
ianinsane
Prince
I just did some research concerning slums. The largest slums in the world does have Mexico City. About 4 million people living in slums while the overall population is 19 million.
This means a relation of about 1/5 of the population living in slums. However, in Bogota for example about 1/3 of the population are living in slums. (8 million population, 2.5 million slum inhabitants).
So this would mean the slum building should raise the
by 50%. But it should also add quite an amount of so the city can't grow by 50% unless you gain a lot of somewhere.
I now reason that it is not necessary to make the slums building itself gain
and 
since the slum inhabitants will all become specialists.
So this is what I come up with:
Slums
+50%
+10
+3
+25% maintenance
This means a relation of about 1/5 of the population living in slums. However, in Bogota for example about 1/3 of the population are living in slums. (8 million population, 2.5 million slum inhabitants).
So this would mean the slum building should raise the
by 50%. But it should also add quite an amount of so the city can't grow by 50% unless you gain a lot of somewhere.I now reason that it is not necessary to make the slums building itself gain
and since the slum inhabitants will all become specialists.So this is what I come up with:
Slums
+50%
+10
+3
+25% maintenance
ianinsane
Prince
And for the late game
Arcology (unlocked by Tech "sustainability")
+ 50%
replaces Slums
Arcology (unlocked by Tech "sustainability")
+ 50%
replaces Slums
And for the late game
Arcology (unlocked by Tech "sustainability")
+ 50%
replaces Slums
I love it.
We could model our art for it on...
Spoiler :
ianinsane
Prince
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