Should we try to pronounce names correctly in their language?

Thadlerian's thread about country names reminded me of this.
Although I don't think (as explained in that thread) that it is wise to use original country names everywhere I tend to think differently about it when it comes to names of individuals.

It seems to me (correct me if I'm wrong) that in most if not all other languages people make no effort to pronounce foreigner's names correctly.
An example for that is (I've seen a race today) Formula One champion Michael Schumacher, who is for example in English pronounced like "Michael Shoemacker".

Here in Germany it is often tried to pronounce the names as they are supposed to, so that David Beckham for example doesn't become "Dahveed Beckhäm". Of course that doesn't always work, usually involves a German accent and is restricted to those languages that are more widely known here.

In those foreign languages I know a bit about (not many, I admit) that is not the case.

Should that change, does it not matter, or am I completely wrong here and everybody does it anyway?

We should not only use their pronunciations but also spellings for places and such, examples:

Wien for Vienna
Moskva for Moscow
Venezia for Venice
Praha for Prague
Kobenhaven for Copenhagen (I am probably misspelling it/missing accents but you get the idea)

The list can go on...

For people, yes. For places and things, no.

I *hate* it when non-Spanish speaking Americans try to 'correctly' pronounce Spanish words which have entered English generations ago and now are usually pronounced with an English accent. If speaking English, the city is "Loss Annguless" NOT "Lohs Anhellaies"

Hmm - I guess my crappy transliteration will make no sense on an international board. Oh well, I hope I kinda made my point.

<sigh>

Ashoka

Yes. Names is about all this form of PC is good for.

Yeah, I think people should do their best to pronounce people's names the way they were meant to be pronounced, although I can see how it might be hard sometimes. I don't want my name William to be pronounced "Vilhalm."

The Chinese capital has been on English maps as Beijing and Peking. This is because that actual Chinese pronunciation is something in between, but no combination of English sounds qutie get it right.

Until recent events, I pronounced Qatar as KAT-ar but a local news station had a whole item on its pronunciation. News people have started getting a closer sounding gut-tar. But even that doesn't sound exactly like the native said it.

I find it easier to pronounce new words as the people want them. I would have trouble calling Rome Roma.

Originally posted by SewerStarFish
The Chinese capital has been on English maps as Beijing and Peking. This is because that actual Chinese pronunciation is something in between, but no combination of English sounds qutie get it right.

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No. It was because two different types of transliteration methods were used. The "Peking" was from the Wade-Giles system and "Beijing" is from the Pinyin system. Pinyin uses a lot of vowels and is a lot more accurate in terms of the Mandarin dialet, while Wade-Giles leans toward Cantonese. Pinyin is used because it is more systematic and it conforms to the Chinese official language: Mandarin.

Originally posted by nihilistic


No. It was because two different types of transliteration methods were used. The "Peking" was from the Wade-Giles system and "Beijing" is from the Pinyin system. Pinyin uses a lot of vowels and is a lot more accurate in terms of the Mandarin dialet, while Wade-Giles leans toward Cantonese. Pinyin is used because it is more systematic and it conforms to the Chinese official language: Mandarin.

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Beijing in Mandarin is pronounced almost the same as it is in English, although no one gets the tone right.

When it comes to people's names, I think that it is more respectful to learn how to actually say a person's name. Being of a different culture with what seems to be a hard to pronounce name for those who can't read english, I prefer it when people properly say my name. My name is spelled exactly how it is pronounced, yet people always find some way to butcher it if they haven't heard it before. The ones that get it right are the literature professors and those who know language. The rest are people with a bad Texan accent who can't say it right.

'It' being your name or just the word 'it'?

People's names, yes. Place names, no.

If talking about people names, then a lot of the names in English - whose origin is the Bible - are pronounced wrong. For example: Jonathan instead of Yonatan, Abraham instead of Avraham, Samuel instead of Shmuel, and the list goes on.

Originally posted by Ram
If talking about people names, then a lot of the names in English - whose origin is the Bible - are pronounced wrong. For example: Jonathan instead of Yonatan, Abraham instead of Avraham, Samuel instead of Shmuel, and the list goes on.

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That is a different matter, many names, especially biblical ones, have been translated into various languages. They have more or less become different names. That itself is no problem, but I find it weird when people use the domestic version of it for someone who has the name in his language.
An example for that would be calling an Israeli whos name is Avraham Abraham instead. Another example is William and Wilhelm (which is the same name), as mentioned by WillJ.

I prefer to use the names in by native languagem but when I use english, like now, I prefer the cities native name, like Koln and Munchen...
(Yes, I know it needs tremas on it)

Originally posted by archer_007
Yes. Names is about all this form of PC is good for.

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It's not about political correctness. It's about respecting the person by pronouncing their name as they do.

Originally posted by Ram

If talking about people names, then a lot of the names in English - whose origin is the Bible - are pronounced wrong. For example: Jonathan instead of Yonatan, Abraham instead of Avraham, Samuel instead of Shmuel, and the list goes on.

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But the great thing about a person's name is that they get to choose how it is pronounced. So if Jonathan wants to go by Yonatan, then people should respect his wishes and pronounce it that way.

English "translation" of names are a bit strange sometimes. Like Marcus Antonius becomes Mark Anthony, but Marcus Aurelius is Marcus Aurelius. Weird.

On the names of places there is no principle that says you have to pronounce the way its supposed to. You can show respect by learning the real names and pronounciations of cities and such, but you dont have to.

The swedish language treats foreign names with respect. München is called München and Moskva is Moskva. There are some differences, like Rom instead of Roma, but normally its about the same.

I dont like to be ignorant, so I try to learn the real names of places. Its a question of respect, but its optional.

you shouldnt change Roma, you cant feel the strenght of the word in "rome"

With people's names, it should be as they desire. If someone introduces themselves to you as "John" rather than their original "Hans", then that's what you should call them.

Although I should add that it annoys me to no end that Americans and Canadians rarely bother with my first name, instead opting for the English equivalent. I'll introduce myself, they'll squint at me and ask me to repeat it, then after a couple times of that they ask, "Oh - you mean Tom? Does that mean Tom? Well why didn't you just say so, Tom?" This used to bother me much more than it does now but I've largely gotten over it. Largely.

Hitro wrote:

That is a different matter, many names, especially biblical ones, have been translated into various languages. They have more or less become different names. That itself is no problem, but I find it weird when people use the domestic version of it for someone who has the name in his language.
An example for that would be calling an Israeli whos name is Avraham Abraham instead.

And it gets a little more confusing becasue it has happened that through cultural "blowback" some Biblical names have shown up in our languages several times in several guises - in English "John", "Ian", etc.

As for place names, it depends. Every culture has its own historical relationship with the world and some places moreso than others; this means that often local vernacular names develop for foreign place names. The city of London is for Poles "Londyn", a literal transliteration in Polish of how Londoners pronounce the name of their city. The American capital is "Waszyngton", pronounced (with English phonetics) "Vashing-ton". (We don't have the English "w" sound.) Similarly, I would dare most here to pronounce the Polish city Lódz's name correctly; with the full diacritic marks I can't reproduce here it is pronounced in Polish "Woodzh" (rhyming with "stooge") but in English-language Holocaust documentaries I hear it pronounced "Lahdss" or "Lawdz". The bottom line is that languages do not all share the same sounds, and sometimes we simply cannot re-create other language's pronunciations. This is why I say that it is not disrespectful to say "Munich", "Warsaw", or "Paris" instead of München, Warszawa or Paris. Or can YOU say "Hódmezôvásárhely"...? (Means "Beaver field marketplace" in Hungarian. I once dated a girl who had relatives there.)

Originally posted by Vrylakas
With people's names, it should be as they desire. If someone introduces themselves to you as "John" rather than their original "Hans", then that's what you should call them.

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Well that's definately right, but I rather meant cases where people don't even think about pronouncing it correctly.

Although I should add that it annoys me to no end that Americans and Canadians rarely bother with my first name, instead opting for the English equivalent. I'll introduce myself, they'll squint at me and ask me to repeat it, then after a couple times of that they ask, "Oh - you mean Tom? Does that mean Tom? Well why didn't you just say so, Tom?" This used to bother me much more than it does now but I've largely gotten over it. Largely.

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I have to admit that Polish isn't very well known to me, although Poland is a neighbouring country. But there always have been efforts to pronounce the names correctly, it's just that Walesa or Malysz is almost impossible to be said correctly be an untrained German.

I would dare most here to pronounce the Polish city Lódz's name correctly; with the full diacritic marks I can't reproduce here it is pronounced in Polish "Woodzh" (rhyming with "stooge") but in English-language Holocaust documentaries I hear it pronounced "Lahdss" or "Lawdz".

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That's what I mean. Especially the sound you describe with "W" is very strange to me.

Btw, kind of sad that the (only?) thing you hear about Lodz in the US are Holocaust documentaries...

Or can YOU say "Hódmezôvásárhely"...? (Means "Beaver field marketplace" in Hungarian.

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I guess not.
But I've often wondered how that is pronounced. Since I was about six years old I have a map of Europe that is still on my room's wall today. The by far strangest name on it is Hódmezôvásárhely, so I often thought about that.