carloscodex
Chieftain
Good point on that one. It is was an extremely sought out and valuable pigment/resource.
Dyes can move to a later date with a different impact on society than simply Art.
Prehistoric Era [BNW] - Total Conversion
- Thread starter carloscodex
- Start date
Good point on that one. It is was an extremely sought out and valuable pigment/resource.
Dyes can move to a later date with a different impact on society than simply Art.
carloscodex
Chieftain
And on the subject of Art...
I am happy with BNW's additions in the late game with Works, but I'd also like to see "art" explored and useful in the early game.
It's been a little hard to establish the order of certain art expressions because of the many disputes amongst researchers, archaeologists, etc.
Most establish that aesthetic sensibilities did not develop until about 50K; this being directly related to actual and mostly undisputed archaeological records.
This is the order that I see:
Figurines
Beads (wearable art)
Painting
Petroglyphs
Now, there is evidence of earlier forms of human abstraction (thatch or cross marks on rock) that predate 50K (back to 100k) but these may not be considered Art. Perhaps this is another stepping stone in the Tech Tree and advancement of human civilization.
There is even some that argue that similarities in tool creation (non-functional similarities) could even be considered a form of human abstraction and a display of the aesthetic side. This goes back to 100-150K.
The bigger question is how to engage an art path into gameplay. Along with the techs there should be buildables and bonuses, but what?
I'm exploring a few options...
I am happy with BNW's additions in the late game with Works, but I'd also like to see "art" explored and useful in the early game.
It's been a little hard to establish the order of certain art expressions because of the many disputes amongst researchers, archaeologists, etc.
Most establish that aesthetic sensibilities did not develop until about 50K; this being directly related to actual and mostly undisputed archaeological records.
This is the order that I see:
Figurines
Beads (wearable art)
Painting
Petroglyphs
Now, there is evidence of earlier forms of human abstraction (thatch or cross marks on rock) that predate 50K (back to 100k) but these may not be considered Art. Perhaps this is another stepping stone in the Tech Tree and advancement of human civilization.
There is even some that argue that similarities in tool creation (non-functional similarities) could even be considered a form of human abstraction and a display of the aesthetic side. This goes back to 100-150K.
The bigger question is how to engage an art path into gameplay. Along with the techs there should be buildables and bonuses, but what?
I'm exploring a few options...
UncivilizedGuy
The Village Idiot
Well you could "build" petroglyphs, cave art, the Venus statues as wonders, beadwork, basket work. Art is a tough one.
Other building ideas unrelated to art: burial pit, animal skin hut, spear maker, tattoo hut, tool maker, animal traps, how about a rendezvous or some center for trade. Have you looked at the Caveman2Cosmos mod for civ4? You might find some ideas there.
Other building ideas unrelated to art: burial pit, animal skin hut, spear maker, tattoo hut, tool maker, animal traps, how about a rendezvous or some center for trade. Have you looked at the Caveman2Cosmos mod for civ4? You might find some ideas there.
carloscodex
Chieftain
Yes, have that in my plan. Petroglyphs came a little later than beads, figurines, body art, and regular cave art.
Burial Pit: I've been researching this one and I've had a tough time pinpointing rituals and/or techniques used by prehistoric peoples along with times associated with them. I want to make sure to get at least the time relations correct. Some think that Dolmens were used a burial sites. Some don't.
Once you get to the technology of "Specialization" or "social Structure" then we can start having things like Speak Maker [building], Tattoo Hut, Tool Maker. Before that, everyone usually knew how to make their own stuff no matter where they were. The argument could be made, that perhaps there was a "Pigment Storage" or "Pigment Containers" or something to that effect -- something everyone shared and
Animal Skin Hut: Good idea for a designated area for everyone to do their animal skin stuff. Should give some clothing bonus. Perhaps before the Clothing invention/technology man loses health in Tundra and/or Ice.
Animal Traps: Not really a building but a good idea for pre-settlement (Leader) or Tribe (first small or temporary Settlements).
Flint Maker or just Flint Tools for early settlements could work -- giving a bonus to certain weapons (promotions).
No, not until you mentioned it. It looked pretty interesting. I'd like to speak to some of the contributors if they are still around. They didn't go back that far, but I am sure that have some good insight and may even want to help with this one!
I just played a game yesterday. Even with a delay with the celts to get the faith bonuses at "idols", my religion is the only one present since i wiped the opposition.
Features wont work- I have a permanent settlement, resources wont deply and there is no fog of war. But I used other mods as well...
Features wont work- I have a permanent settlement, resources wont deply and there is no fog of war. But I used other mods as well...
carloscodex
Chieftain
Ok, everyone. I am at a crossroads and dilemna here. And I'd like your feedback. I've been putting a lot of time into the next release -- it's a MAJOR one. The problem is that the gfx are taking a little too long, specifically, the 3d unit animations (for 14 new units). So I can release this new version with some slightly repetitive gfx (I will do some light reskinning) and some possible extra bugs -- OR -- I can wait to finish the gfx and stabilize a lot more (maybe one more month) --- OR --- I can release a completely new mod branch, Prehistoric BNW v0.3.x and continue to stabilize v0.2.x for those that want to continue on it. Details to follow.
Here is a summary list of changes for v0.3.0. THE FULL DETAILS WILL BE IN A DIFFERENT POST.
1. Eras - I've split the single 'Prehistoric' Era into several era covering a larger time span: 'Prehistoric', 'Lower Paleolithic', 'Paleolithic' (which covers middle and upper for now), 'Neolithic', and have altered Ancient to be historically accurate. I've done this because of the massive new additions.
2. Technologies - I've added about 28 new technologies. All of these are pre-Ancient. The first one, Extinction Event, basically goes back to 34M BC (automatically researched along with three others leading up to 8M BC). I am fixing the option to also start at any one of these Eras, but not in that first v0.3.0 release.
3. Wonders - There are about 21 new wonders Pre-Ancient Era. They are limited in their bonuses and will expire in later Eras in order to keep balance. They mostly keep in line with actual historical timelines. Bonuses are different in order to allow for a more unit-based early game rather than city-based early game. Some bonuses are city based, some are national. Also, many wonders need to be unlocked and depend on location, resources, etc (also to balance game).
4. Promotions - Many new promotions with new types of abilities (not in your standard promotion library). Some of these are geared towards units affecting the surrounding environment, migrations, evolution, etc.
5. Buildings - (and Pseudo-Buildings since there was not much early building in pre-history). About 30 new ones. Bonsues, again are somewhat different from your standard city-affecting bonuses or gold/faith/production bonuses.
6. Units - My bane. I've created a unit type circular system. In essence, one unit has certain bonuses to the unit directly across the circle and smaller bonuses against the ones adjacent to the opposing unit. This maybe doesn't make sense without pictures. The combat types are: foot-heavy, foot-light, foot-distance (e.g. long spear), foot-defensive, sentinel, skirmish, vanguard, siege, ranged, support, mounted, carriage, companioned (e.g. dogs), stealth, royal/noble, criminal (a sub-type), slave or conscript (a sub-type), special, and milita (a sub-type). This adds one more layer of strategy to the battle system. I am struggling with making the AI take advantage of this but have found some workarounds.
About 25 new units in Pre-Ancient, with 20+ units Ancient+ that I have postponed for now in order to get this release out. This area is my biggest problem relating to tactics and of course....graphics!!! I woud love some help. I cannot release without the proper unit balance. So I may release with simplified tactics and unit gfx and work on finishing the gfx later. For complete balance across the new strategic circle I have plans for about 15 more pre-Ancient units in later releases.
I am *considering* some slightly non-historical units to make the game a little more fun, perhaps. Thoughts? As an example, we already have the Shaman. I am adding a Mammoth rider, Tiger-companion, a smallish-primate-like skirmisher, a huge barbaric branch of the homo-line (dies out) that is about 8-9 ft tall, but with certain weaknesses (not so mart), etc.
--
No more details. I'll add all of them into the Discussion Thread later. I really would like the feedback. The release is almost done. The gameplay and definitions are done. All gfx are done except a FEW icons and of course the 3d-unit gfx.
I've love your feedback. Release here or in new Mod Branch? Wait for better gfx? Wait for better stabilized gameplay and balance? I am leaning towards separate Mod Branch.
Prehistoric BNW v0.3.0.
Here is a summary list of changes for v0.3.0. THE FULL DETAILS WILL BE IN A DIFFERENT POST.
1. Eras - I've split the single 'Prehistoric' Era into several era covering a larger time span: 'Prehistoric', 'Lower Paleolithic', 'Paleolithic' (which covers middle and upper for now), 'Neolithic', and have altered Ancient to be historically accurate. I've done this because of the massive new additions.
2. Technologies - I've added about 28 new technologies. All of these are pre-Ancient. The first one, Extinction Event, basically goes back to 34M BC (automatically researched along with three others leading up to 8M BC). I am fixing the option to also start at any one of these Eras, but not in that first v0.3.0 release.
3. Wonders - There are about 21 new wonders Pre-Ancient Era. They are limited in their bonuses and will expire in later Eras in order to keep balance. They mostly keep in line with actual historical timelines. Bonuses are different in order to allow for a more unit-based early game rather than city-based early game. Some bonuses are city based, some are national. Also, many wonders need to be unlocked and depend on location, resources, etc (also to balance game).
4. Promotions - Many new promotions with new types of abilities (not in your standard promotion library). Some of these are geared towards units affecting the surrounding environment, migrations, evolution, etc.
5. Buildings - (and Pseudo-Buildings since there was not much early building in pre-history). About 30 new ones. Bonsues, again are somewhat different from your standard city-affecting bonuses or gold/faith/production bonuses.
6. Units - My bane. I've created a unit type circular system. In essence, one unit has certain bonuses to the unit directly across the circle and smaller bonuses against the ones adjacent to the opposing unit. This maybe doesn't make sense without pictures. The combat types are: foot-heavy, foot-light, foot-distance (e.g. long spear), foot-defensive, sentinel, skirmish, vanguard, siege, ranged, support, mounted, carriage, companioned (e.g. dogs), stealth, royal/noble, criminal (a sub-type), slave or conscript (a sub-type), special, and milita (a sub-type). This adds one more layer of strategy to the battle system. I am struggling with making the AI take advantage of this but have found some workarounds.
About 25 new units in Pre-Ancient, with 20+ units Ancient+ that I have postponed for now in order to get this release out. This area is my biggest problem relating to tactics and of course....graphics!!! I woud love some help. I cannot release without the proper unit balance. So I may release with simplified tactics and unit gfx and work on finishing the gfx later. For complete balance across the new strategic circle I have plans for about 15 more pre-Ancient units in later releases.
I am *considering* some slightly non-historical units to make the game a little more fun, perhaps. Thoughts? As an example, we already have the Shaman. I am adding a Mammoth rider, Tiger-companion, a smallish-primate-like skirmisher, a huge barbaric branch of the homo-line (dies out) that is about 8-9 ft tall, but with certain weaknesses (not so mart), etc.
--
No more details. I'll add all of them into the Discussion Thread later. I really would like the feedback. The release is almost done. The gameplay and definitions are done. All gfx are done except a FEW icons and of course the 3d-unit gfx.
I've love your feedback. Release here or in new Mod Branch? Wait for better gfx? Wait for better stabilized gameplay and balance? I am leaning towards separate Mod Branch.
Prehistoric BNW v0.3.0.
I think 0.2 and 0.3 can both be available at the same time.
I played a second game as Spain. You will have to downgrade their UA because a Solomon's mine 12 production next to the capital from 6000 bc is way too much!
I saw some bugs:
- the primitive archer is a melee unit, loosing health when moving to an enemy tile
- In the 2 games, the IA was short of money and then science soon- usually before the agriculture bootleneck.
- Religion is way too important because converting it is the only real money source...
I played a second game as Spain. You will have to downgrade their UA because a Solomon's mine 12 production next to the capital from 6000 bc is way too much!
I saw some bugs:
- the primitive archer is a melee unit, loosing health when moving to an enemy tile
- In the 2 games, the IA was short of money and then science soon- usually before the agriculture bootleneck.
- Religion is way too important because converting it is the only real money source...
Alfapiomega
Chieftain
First of all full support for you for making this mod. It sounds awesome and I will playtest it once you release the new version.
Second I would keep it as compact as possible without too much branching. It might lead to further problems when there are more than one "versions" out at the same time.
And regarding he units - I would go for them but be careful to keep them close to history if possible. If you go out too much you might make it too far away from the feeling of the game and it could become... well silly.
lp_04
Prince
Hey.
I really like this concept, the idea of nomadic people, the evolution trought mesolithic and neolithic, the reestruturation of the techtree... Everything points to a more extended expression of the History of mankind and, sincerly, it will improve the game.
Although, I have some few points to establish as negative. First of all, the overall conception of prehistory present in here, at least as I have read it, is way too much early XX century. The idea of progression, the nomenclature of bans, chiefdom, etc., the idea of very low communication that wouldn't allow maps to be created... They are just overpassed by the cientific paradigma. Actually, the pre-history of mankind is much more of high points and low points where humans tried to adapt in a cultural way just as deep as ours but represented in ways we can not conceptualize as we are in sedentarian, industrialized societies that produce their own food and are biased to see the past as "primitive". It ould be better to consider the overall conceptualization. Just like "cartography won't be possible just because there are no ways to record the data". Simple
Other point I would like to add is the fact that this mod should only use Homo sapiens. the idea of CIV is to develop a culture in politics, economy and social organization, and the level o culture of the most ancient Men was way too much related to the environment and the biological component played a major role. Not the I dislike human evolution, but in fact the biology of the sapiens is something that allowed them to establish a culture just as deep as ours, 1000 kyr ago. Neandethalensis also developed deep cultural components, but insering the biological problem on the game would be too much.
Finally, the early human societies developed their culture and society by the influence of the surrounding environment. I see that this has already been considered, but if possible (and I have no ideas so far), increase the role of climate and orogeny on the first nomadicv people.
I may seem contraditory, but I have already used too much lines to expose my point of vew. Any explanation, ask me.
Do not consider these points as something to let you down, they are supposed to be constructive in order to assimilate the game to the cientifical facts. I think this project is awsom and, as a guy who studies prehistory, It is my thing never stop this, even if it takes years to improve, it is another dimension of civ that shuld be created and I give you my full congratulations for leading this forward
PS: If you need , I could try to help you. If you don't good luck. I will anxiously expect the release of this mod in complete connextion with the civ experience.
PPS: Sory for the bad english
I really like this concept, the idea of nomadic people, the evolution trought mesolithic and neolithic, the reestruturation of the techtree... Everything points to a more extended expression of the History of mankind and, sincerly, it will improve the game.
Although, I have some few points to establish as negative. First of all, the overall conception of prehistory present in here, at least as I have read it, is way too much early XX century. The idea of progression, the nomenclature of bans, chiefdom, etc., the idea of very low communication that wouldn't allow maps to be created... They are just overpassed by the cientific paradigma. Actually, the pre-history of mankind is much more of high points and low points where humans tried to adapt in a cultural way just as deep as ours but represented in ways we can not conceptualize as we are in sedentarian, industrialized societies that produce their own food and are biased to see the past as "primitive". It ould be better to consider the overall conceptualization. Just like "cartography won't be possible just because there are no ways to record the data". Simple
Other point I would like to add is the fact that this mod should only use Homo sapiens. the idea of CIV is to develop a culture in politics, economy and social organization, and the level o culture of the most ancient Men was way too much related to the environment and the biological component played a major role. Not the I dislike human evolution, but in fact the biology of the sapiens is something that allowed them to establish a culture just as deep as ours, 1000 kyr ago. Neandethalensis also developed deep cultural components, but insering the biological problem on the game would be too much.
Finally, the early human societies developed their culture and society by the influence of the surrounding environment. I see that this has already been considered, but if possible (and I have no ideas so far), increase the role of climate and orogeny on the first nomadicv people.
I may seem contraditory, but I have already used too much lines to expose my point of vew. Any explanation, ask me.
Do not consider these points as something to let you down, they are supposed to be constructive in order to assimilate the game to the cientifical facts. I think this project is awsom and, as a guy who studies prehistory, It is my thing
never stop this, even if it takes years to improve, it is another dimension of civ that shuld be created and I give you my full congratulations for leading this forwardPS: If you need , I could try to help you. If you don't good luck. I will anxiously expect the release of this mod in complete connextion with the civ experience.
PPS: Sory for the bad english
Alfapiomega
Chieftain
Hey.
I really like this concept, the idea of nomadic people, the evolution trought mesolithic and neolithic, the reestruturation of the techtree... Everything points to a more extended expression of the History of mankind and, sincerly, it will improve the game.
Although, I have some few points to establish as negative. First of all, the overall conception of prehistory present in here, at least as I have read it, is way too much early XX century. The idea of progression, the nomenclature of bans, chiefdom, etc., the idea of very low communication that wouldn't allow maps to be created... They are just overpassed by the cientific paradigma. Actually, the pre-history of mankind is much more of high points and low points where humans tried to adapt in a cultural way just as deep as ours but represented in ways we can not conceptualize as we are in sedentarian, industrialized societies that produce their own food and are biased to see the past as "primitive". It ould be better to consider the overall conceptualization. Just like "cartography won't be possible just because there are no ways to record the data". Simple
Other point I would like to add is the fact that this mod should only use Homo sapiens. the idea of CIV is to develop a culture in politics, economy and social organization, and the level o culture of the most ancient Men was way too much related to the environment and the biological component played a major role. Not the I dislike human evolution, but in fact the biology of the sapiens is something that allowed them to establish a culture just as deep as ours, 1000 kyr ago. Neandethalensis also developed deep cultural components, but insering the biological problem on the game would be too much.
Finally, the early human societies developed their culture and society by the influence of the surrounding environment. I see that this has already been considered, but if possible (and I have no ideas so far), increase the role of climate and orogeny on the first nomadicv people.
I may seem contraditory, but I have already used too much lines to expose my point of vew. Any explanation, ask me.
Do not consider these points as something to let you down, they are supposed to be constructive in order to assimilate the game to the cientifical facts. I think this project is awsom and, as a guy who studies prehistory, It is my thing
PS: If you need , I could try to help you. If you don't good luck. I will anxiously expect the release of this mod in complete connextion with the civ experience.
PPS: Sory for the bad english
Your English is not bad though I would ask for a clarification of:
"Actually, the pre-history of mankind is much more of high points and low points where humans tried to adapt in a cultural way just as deep as ours but represented in ways we can not conceptualize as we are in sedentarian, industrialized societies that produce their own food and are biased to see the past as "primitive"."
What do you mean by that?
First of all full support for you for making this mod. It sounds awesome and I will playtest it once you release the new version.
Second I would keep it as compact as possible without too much branching. It might lead to further problems when there are more than one "versions" out at the same time.
And regarding he units - I would go for them but be careful to keep them close to history if possible. If you go out too much you might make it too far away from the feeling of the game and it could become... well silly.
I agree with Alfapiomega - thanks for making such a great MOD. I am not sure if you still play Civ 4 but there is a MOD there called "Caveman2Cosmos" which has a great deal of material relating to prehistoric times. It is very extensive - too much so in some ways - but might provide you with more ideas for technologies, for example. Just be sure to give the C2C team credit
Keep up the great work, it is definitely appreciated!
Skaz881
History Major
This looks very interesting, but I can't find where to download it. Is it not here?
Hyronymus
Troop leader
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2003
- Messages
- 1,869
I don't know. Can't you make one when you installed the mod?Why is it so hard to upload a single screenshot from the mod?
carloscodex
Chieftain
Release information and previews added to main page. Example below.
Steam: v13 (v0.2.10a) or URL http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=187671255
Current (GitHub): https://github.com/carlosfhernandez...Era (BNW) (v 13)__v0.2.10a__.civ5mod?raw=true
Others (previous): https://github.com/carlosfhernandez/civ5-prehistoric/tree/master/releases
Non-functional preview-release v0.3.x: https://github.com/carlosfhernandez...(v 20a)__v0.3.0a-preview01__.civ5mod?raw=true (spoiler below)
Steam: v13 (v0.2.10a) or URL http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=187671255
Current (GitHub): https://github.com/carlosfhernandez...Era (BNW) (v 13)__v0.2.10a__.civ5mod?raw=true
Others (previous): https://github.com/carlosfhernandez/civ5-prehistoric/tree/master/releases
Non-functional preview-release v0.3.x: https://github.com/carlosfhernandez...(v 20a)__v0.3.0a-preview01__.civ5mod?raw=true (spoiler below)
Spoiler :
I played the mod a few weeks ago.
All in all it was certainly an interesting experience and I quite enjoyed it. It offers a very different experience of Civ 5 then I'm used to & certainly means you don't feel so bogged down trying to do everything in the normal ancient era - like trying to get infrastructure, wonders, cities, military & trade routes all out in 50 turns
. I'll list some problems I identified.
Most Civs went bankrupt after about 200 or so turns on the standard speed & many far earlier. At that point they were stuck & could not technologically advance. I noticed that unit upkeep costs keep increasing relative to the number of turns & not the era. I don't know if this is something put in place by the devs to scale to the age of the game but many Civs end up stuck in the prehistoric age and can't tech up and can even be hundreds of gold in the negative each turn. I stayed out of trouble by sticking with Tradition's Oligarchy. Unit costs will definitely have to scale per era and not increase past 1 until well into the later ages.
Pantheons - Here's another issue. I complete a religious City-States quest and they give me lots of faith each turn. That's great, the only problem is that when I get a Pantheon I still can't see what resources are near my cities so I don't know what Belief I should take. I end up taking God King but it still feels like I miss out on a core feature. Perhaps you could consider revealing resources on the map earlier but just not allow any of the resource bonuses or pantheon beliefs to be used from that tile until you research the pre-requisite technology?
Natural Wonders are also crazily overpowered in this scenario as the benefits to things like culture, faith, science etc really do give that civ a huge advantage.
Also outposts can't be upgraded to farms when I need to.
Ancient era Wonders feels a bit odd. It takes ages to get to unlock the Pyramids which of all the Wonders in Civ 5 were one of the earliest. Now it feels like I can't get them until much later and it ends up being a Classical era Wonder. Perhaps you can move the Pyramids or Masonry earlier in the tech tree.
Otherwise its looking good so far, can't wait to see what you have in store for the future
All in all it was certainly an interesting experience and I quite enjoyed it. It offers a very different experience of Civ 5 then I'm used to & certainly means you don't feel so bogged down trying to do everything in the normal ancient era - like trying to get infrastructure, wonders, cities, military & trade routes all out in 50 turns
. I'll list some problems I identified.Most Civs went bankrupt after about 200 or so turns on the standard speed & many far earlier. At that point they were stuck & could not technologically advance. I noticed that unit upkeep costs keep increasing relative to the number of turns & not the era. I don't know if this is something put in place by the devs to scale to the age of the game but many Civs end up stuck in the prehistoric age and can't tech up and can even be hundreds of gold in the negative each turn. I stayed out of trouble by sticking with Tradition's Oligarchy. Unit costs will definitely have to scale per era and not increase past 1 until well into the later ages.
Pantheons - Here's another issue. I complete a religious City-States quest and they give me lots of faith each turn. That's great, the only problem is that when I get a Pantheon I still can't see what resources are near my cities so I don't know what Belief I should take. I end up taking God King but it still feels like I miss out on a core feature. Perhaps you could consider revealing resources on the map earlier but just not allow any of the resource bonuses or pantheon beliefs to be used from that tile until you research the pre-requisite technology?
Natural Wonders are also crazily overpowered in this scenario as the benefits to things like culture, faith, science etc really do give that civ a huge advantage.
Also outposts can't be upgraded to farms when I need to.
Ancient era Wonders feels a bit odd. It takes ages to get to unlock the Pyramids which of all the Wonders in Civ 5 were one of the earliest. Now it feels like I can't get them until much later and it ends up being a Classical era Wonder. Perhaps you can move the Pyramids or Masonry earlier in the tech tree.
Otherwise its looking good so far, can't wait to see what you have in store for the future
lp_04
Prince
Just a little thing. You have:
« Mesolithic: "Middle Stone Age" »
But the MSA occured if Africa and corresponds to the european period of Homo neanderthalensis. Its the period of what we consider in europe as Middle Paleolithic (with Mustrian technology) but that occured in Africa and belonged to the first sapiens. Blooms cave and such things that emancipate the modern human behavior occured in this period.
There is also the archaeological paradigma of the 1970s where societies evolved linearly:
« Band -> Tribe -> Clan -> Chiefdom »
I think this is too retrograd, nowdays there is a different interpretation and the archaeological record cannot tell us that such evolution happened. Each society was different. These names label sonething that possibly was not true. But well...
Finally, your tech three is not actually a tech three but an historical three. "Bipedalism", "Locomotion", etc are not actuallytechnologies but biological evolutions that occured at the same time as some technologies. "Acheulean", "Musterian", "Magdalenian"... these are the technologies of Paleolithic. I have an idea for a tech three which I shall post when I fully finish it. It converges with the regular civ V design of tech three being only composed of technologies (that's why we don't have mysticism, priesthood, divine right, etc.). If you use something of the tech three, great, if not, great. Your mod is unique and I like it. Just trying to make costructive ideas
« Mesolithic: "Middle Stone Age" »
But the MSA occured if Africa and corresponds to the european period of Homo neanderthalensis. Its the period of what we consider in europe as Middle Paleolithic (with Mustrian technology) but that occured in Africa and belonged to the first sapiens. Blooms cave and such things that emancipate the modern human behavior occured in this period.
There is also the archaeological paradigma of the 1970s where societies evolved linearly:
« Band -> Tribe -> Clan -> Chiefdom »
I think this is too retrograd, nowdays there is a different interpretation and the archaeological record cannot tell us that such evolution happened. Each society was different. These names label sonething that possibly was not true. But well...
Finally, your tech three is not actually a tech three but an historical three. "Bipedalism", "Locomotion", etc are not actuallytechnologies but biological evolutions that occured at the same time as some technologies. "Acheulean", "Musterian", "Magdalenian"... these are the technologies of Paleolithic. I have an idea for a tech three which I shall post when I fully finish it. It converges with the regular civ V design of tech three being only composed of technologies (that's why we don't have mysticism, priesthood, divine right, etc.). If you use something of the tech three, great, if not, great. Your mod is unique and I like it. Just trying to make costructive ideas
beewyka819
Warlord
When will a functional release of the soon to be newest update be out?
carloscodex
Chieftain
I had a terrible time with this because let's just face it: evolution was not and never will be linear. In fact, it regresses at points, while other societies jump ahead, borrowing from another, and some dissolve into almost nothing (or nothing) then spread rapidly borrowing from others. And then we have the possible co-mingling of sub-species and the continuous re-categorization of fossils and strike-throughs of names.
So, for the game's sake (now) I simplified it. I will evolve it into something more accurate. I am aware of many of these discrepancies but also ask that more of you knowledgeable folks help me out. I appreciate the insight lp_04.
Very good point. My thoughts were to have an initial and generic societal evolution pattern, and then, depending on each civilization, add a little historical touch. There is NO WAY we could be accurate with modern societies because they did not evolve this way (e.g. United State); but, perhaps I can borrow from some of our ancient lost cousins and adopt them--help them make their mark again
In the case of the United States, I could start with different sort of societal evolution pattern with unique traits:
scout fort -> pilgrim settlement -> homogeneous village -> port -> trading town -> ...
I wouldn't touch on the native peoples since they would have their own path (I've gotta fit in something for everyone).
Finally, your tech three is not actually a tech three but an historical three. "Bipedalism", "Locomotion", etc are not actuallytechnologies but biological evolutions that occured at the same time as some technologies. "Acheulean", "Musterian", "Magdalenian"... these are the technologies of Paleolithic. I have an idea for a tech three which I shall post when I fully finish it. It converges with the regular civ V design of tech three being only composed of technologies (that's why we don't have mysticism, priesthood, divine right, etc.). If you use something of the tech three, great, if not, great. Your mod is unique and I like it. Just trying to make costructive ideas
I made a call to re-purpose the TECH TREE as a TECH, EVOLUTION, AND EVENT TREE. I tried real hard to make it work with the standard progression:
Oldowan -> Acheulean -> Clactonian -> Mousterian -> Aterian -> ...
But, I found it too contrived to fit into gameplay over millions of years and eras. So, by simply re-purposing the tech tree and including events, I could create a better game experience. The events are directly tied to a major evolutionary change that usually changed the way humans did things. These external events forced the humans to do things differently. The evolutionary changes (yes, they were gradual but they typically fit into some sort of timeline [before-after] for someone -- remembering that at times other sub-species could have had their evolution timeline with some deviations).
I WOULD ABSOLUTELY LOVE YOUR TIMELINE INPUT. Please send me (or respond) any work in progress.
This mod has become quite monstrous and any help is always appreciated.
And as a side note, some interesting graphics for everyone to look at:
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