Middle-Earth:Lord of the Mods (XI)

If TLC and I agree about Mordorian/mordorians, let's go with that, to celebrate!

That 10/8/1 ATAR unit up there is supposed to be the Uruk Hai Infantry, and the UU for Isengard (at least..., or am I getting confused in my old age?).

When discussing the trolls with PCH yesterday I got the idea to have a building that needs Stone/Quarry (or whatever we named it) in the city radius. This building (call it Troll Cave or something) would spawn a troll unit every now and then. This way you may get some Troll Caves, but not too many, hopefully, so you won't be flooded in trolls, if we set it up right. I think that the trolls should be good defensive units, what with them shunning the sun, and so.

Hello,

Agree on names. just don't know with who. Roquen is in UT, other names? who knows! I'm sure I don't!! let yourselves decide. would like some elvish names.

I'm here to comment on stats. Basically, my comment was the elvish units were better than mannish units but cheaper. was thinking like this:

Ist eras. significantly better in stats, but higher cost.
last eras. not significantly better, but still same proportionately higher cost.

Trying to finish up unit lines for remaining evil civs.

Like the idea for the troll cave.

Are those orcish units posted there? can't really think on them without all the other units directly at hand. did seem a bit better in comparison to mannish units then I suspected.

RRnut

Great idea with Troll caves. I've always been a fan of unit spawning.

Here's a new drgaon that was made by Drift, just in case you guys needed a Smaug for anything.

Smaug

There are more dragons if you scroll up, but I thought the Smaug would be most interesting for the mod, if your making a dragon unit for scenario's or a preplaced barb.

Well, it looks like things are progressing. I have some reasonably serious questions about balance, but I've not been following anywhere near closely enough to make intelligent comments on that.

Do use Eorlingas instead of Eorlings, though. It's more correct and no more confusing.

Also, when this is done, I'm probably up to help beta test and work on balance. But I doubt I'll see it. Will somebody PM me when it's done?

Arathorn

Arathorn-
Also, when this is done, I'm probably up to help beta test and work on balance. But I doubt I'll see it. Will somebody PM me when it's done?

Arathorn

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Will do.

Hello!!

Welcome back Arathorn. DOn't worry, I'm trying my best to make it balanced

view the attachment at the bottom for that Re: Mordor.

Re: conception of trolls. was thinking of them as one move, high attack and decent offense. basically similar to high mannish offensive unit of same era. also could be defensive unit, but seriously, isn't it nicer to have trolls bashing things up, not just standing in cities?

re: misc. will be away for two weeks with no internet access. hope to see at least a gamma if not a beta by then .

RRnut

Arathorn in old school, you wouldn’t remember him .
I have no idea what evil power could force you not to be next to an internet connection, but have fun with whatever it is . The gamma has been done for about 3 weeks now, I even posted it. The gamma however, isn’t really that important, as it has no flavor. I think we should be able to finish up the tech tree quickly, as it doesn’t really involve anything to compromise over. But again, I might be wrong. After the tech tree is complete, I will have to go back and add all the preq. in the civilopedia and so on, so that in itself will take about 3-5 days, then I would post the beta.

I don’t like the idea of combining offense and defense units from the 2nd era on, no reason too.
Here are some altered orcish stats, to make line more different than the mannish one. I only believe the offense and defense units needed to be altered.

Defense unit 1
1\2\1 (0HPB) 15 shields

Defense unit 2
2\3\1 (0HPB) 30 shields

Defense unit 3
3\5\1 (0HPB) 45 shields

Defense unit 4
5\7\1 (0HPB) 70 shields
0 Range Bombard(4)


Offense unit 1
3\1\1 (0HPB) 20 shields

Offense unit 2
5\2\1 (0HPB) 30 shields

Offense unit 3
7\3\1 (0HPB) 50 shields

Offense unit 4
10\7\1 (0HPB) 80 shields ATAR

Mrtn and I talked about the Troll caves some more. I don’t believe one troll cave is really enough. Thus we can make three different small wonders. The first will require stone, this small wonder will generate the default ‘troll’ in the early second era. The second will require gold (symbolizing their love for loot) and will allow you to build another small wonder, which gives you the same troll, but in the early third era. The last one would require stone and iron, and would let you build a small wonder which generates the Olog hai, in the early fourth era.

The Last Conformist, I changed the name to Isengarder\Insengarders. Thanks for all your name help, makes it much easier.

Whats the statline for trolls?

I've not really been paying too much attention to unit lines lately, but I notice that in those orkish lines, the A/D ration sticks to about 1.5. Since better defensive improvements and bigger cities are going to come along as the game progresses, that means that cities will become progressively harder to take, which doesn't feel entirely right. Now, this is less of a problem for the Mordorians, who get some help from their siege machinery, but for other races it could be a real problem. I think I've mentioned this before, but I just wanted to make sure it's considered.

PCH: Re: names, I'm happy to be able to contribute!

Hello,

one more post before I leave:

Arathorn left just as I got on. He doesn't remember me I'm sure...

Oh so that was the gamma. ok. hope to see the beta!

As for combining unit stats, 2 reasons:
People liked the idea, and this seemed like a good place to try it.
It conserves on already scarce orcish units.

Like the idea on troll caves.

Thanks for making the post TLC. I've been trying to say that.

Re Angmar and Isengard. Give them a wonder that creates a free improvment like Rhuadanian Treachery in every city. Perhaps one culture, nothing else. Then give them a building, Rhuadanian Outpost, (100 shields) which requires the other building and spews out men every 5 turns. eliminates the balance concerns of having every city on continent spew out units.

RRnut

Originally posted by RRnut
As for combining unit stats, 2 reasons:
People liked the idea, and this seemed like a good place to try it.
It conserves on already scarce orcish units.

Click to expand...

Indeed!

so... I don't particularly want to browse through 10 pages on each of 11 threads. Are there any working beta versions of this mod yet, or is it still in the discussion stage?

Working stage, but drawing quickly closer to that beta, at least that's what it appears to me. I've been watching since the beginning.

I still have the crown of least useful person to post in all 11 threads

I dunno I've been pretty useless to this particular thread. I think I came into the project too late.

My usefulness extended to just a comment about scouts requiring a tech. After that I think I was just a thread jacker. Kind of babbled like we're doing now. Sorry guys, I'm going back into lurker mode in this thread. Can't stand in the way of progress.

We only have two different archers to work with, unless we add the color conversion of the "Black Orc Archer". But still, we have far more orcs than we do Elves, Dwarves, or Hobbits. We would be foolish to lower the count from 7 units to 4! I don’t see the logic in making all the civilizations (except men) have only 8 units, total. The units below exclude embryodeads Black Orc Warrior. Should we use that one?

We can make the Yrch have only 1.1.1, thus it would significantly lower the stats.
Offense:
Snotling [Yrch] (upgrades to Snaga) {1.1.1}
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53033

Orc Warrior [Snaga] {3.1.1}
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41024

Orc Swordsman [Orc Warrior] {6.2.1}
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53344

Uruk-hai (uu) [Uruk-hai Infantry] {10.7.1}
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47064


Defense:
Snotling [Yrch] (upgrades to Snaga) {1.1.1}
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53033

Goblin Spearman (embryodead) [Goblin Warrior?] {2.3.1}
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53035

Goblin Spearman (Kindred72) [Glamhoth?] {3.5.1}
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52204

Uruk-hai Berserker [Uruk-hai Warrior] {6.7.1}
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47064

Originally posted by PCHighway
We only have two different archers to work with, unless we add the color conversion of the "Black Orc Archer". But still, we have far more orcs than we do Elves, Dwarves, or Hobbits. We would be foolish to lower the count from 7 units to 4! I don’t see the logic in making all the civilizations (except men) have only 8 units, total. The units below exclude embryodeads Black Orc Warrior. Should we use that one?

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Eh? If we have even less graphics for Elves, Dwarves and Hobbits than we do Orcs, why wouldn't we reduce the count from 7 to 4? Thattaway we wouldn't have to double-up on so many graphics. To be fair, we could do the same reduction on Mannish units -- excepting flavours or UUs or the like. Or am I even understanding you at all?

Mithadan-
Eh? If we have even less graphics for Elves, Dwarves and Hobbits than we do Orcs, why wouldn't we reduce the count from 7 to 4? Thattaway we wouldn't have to double-up on so many graphics. To be fair, we could do the same reduction on Mannish units -- excepting flavours or UUs or the like. Or am I even understanding you at all?

Click to expand...

I hope you’re not understanding me. The only reason we are using less graphics, is because of the fact that those graphics do not exist. The second someone makes a new fantasy unit (like embryodead’s Swordmaster) we will add that unit to the game! Why wouldn’t we? So far, we use four as the default. In regular civ3 there are many, many, more units. We lowered it to four simply because of the lack of fitting graphics. I am not for using graphics that do not fit, but many of these units have been made for this and other fantasy mods.
By your logic we shouldn’t use the Uruk-hai at all, or leave out Kindred72's goblin spearman.
Why on earth would we limit ourselfs to a bland looking game?