Your GA doesn't start without wonders that satisfy both your traits - the Great Library only satisfies scientific so unless you built or captured something agricultural or commercial first, the Great Library would not start a GA for either of those 2.
How to win on Deity Builder-style, step-by-step.
- Thread starter Drakan
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Your GA doesn't start without wonders that satisfy both your traits - the Great Library only satisfies scientific so unless you built or captured something agricultural or commercial first, the Great Library would not start a GA for either of those 2.
One suggestion for this strategy... the reasoning I think will seem clear enough. Remember that you have to PAY some maitnence on every city improvement (playing the sci-fi game in civ II: Test of Time, where you can build workshops... the factory equivalent... after getting primitive machinery VERY, VERY early... think iron working early, taught me this very well). During the Great Library age you have you have maximum taxes and minimum research. Since you have to always pay on city improvements and you have full taxes and no science, build marketplaces first (no need to rush them... you'll actually lose money overall if you rush them). Since your tax rate comes as so high, you'll multiply your income with marketplaces (read the civilopedia entry if needed for the reasoning here). When the Great Library age starts to come to an end... i.e. education comes near... build libraries. Hopefully, your libraries will finish about the same time as the GL turns off. Then, you'll have the multiplier effect going for your science, since it will come as so high. Then build any remaining libraries and your universities BEFORE building any more marketplaces or banks (I wouldn't recommend selling anything). Sure, this might seem like it costs more... but it really doesn't, I'll try and explain.
If you have no taxes whatsoever, your markeplace does nothing, but cost money. Similarly no science, libraries do nothing but cost maintainence (why heavy warmongers never should build libraries?). I haven't fully checked on civ III, but I think if you have 1 commerce going to taxes, your marketplace will do squat, but it still costs money (bad marketplaces). I know civ II rounded down. If civ III rounds up, the marketplace will then produce one extra gold, which means the marketplace just pays for itself, so it still really just sits there and does nothing. If the city produces two gold prior the markeplace, you get one extra gold, so again, the marketplace does nothing but sit there waiting patiently for more commerce. If civ III rounds down, for a 3 gold city a marketplace again just breaks even. Only when you have 4 gold from commerce before the marketplace will the marketplace make you money... and then only one gold. So, if you have your sci. rate at 90% or 100%, probably also 80% and to a lesser extent 70%, (given no luxuries) even marketplaces will either cost you money, break even, or do very little. The reverse works for libraries, except that 1 extra science unit comes into play at 2 beakers... you just basically convert your maintainence cost into an extra beaker this way. So, libraries and universitities end up as more important for this sort of strategy, as soon as the GL ends. Of course, you'll want some marketplaces and banks so that you can bulid stock exchanges for Wall Street, once you have hospitals or large enough cities that even 10% commerce makes commercial improvements worthwhile, and for those few turns when you can adjust that science slider back to 60% or so and still get your technology in N turns. Of course, what works most effectively will vary depending on city size, commerce level, and so on... but consider if you have a city at size 12 producing 26 commerce, and you have your science slide set at 90% (fairly generous high middle age condition). Then you'll have 2.6, or, 2 or 3 going to taxes (depending on how the game rounds), with the rest going to science. Either way a marketplace either costs you or just sits there. A library will give you 11 or 12 extra science, and university will compound that effect (50% of the original 23 or 24 beakers... or 50% of the 32 to 36 beakers you produce with the library??? I don't know). Of course, for a metropolis with 40 commerce, a marketplace makes cash at even 10% taxes. But, depending on commerce bonuses, many cities will need a hospital for that.
If you have no taxes whatsoever, your markeplace does nothing, but cost money. Similarly no science, libraries do nothing but cost maintainence (why heavy warmongers never should build libraries?). I haven't fully checked on civ III, but I think if you have 1 commerce going to taxes, your marketplace will do squat, but it still costs money (bad marketplaces). I know civ II rounded down. If civ III rounds up, the marketplace will then produce one extra gold, which means the marketplace just pays for itself, so it still really just sits there and does nothing. If the city produces two gold prior the markeplace, you get one extra gold, so again, the marketplace does nothing but sit there waiting patiently for more commerce. If civ III rounds down, for a 3 gold city a marketplace again just breaks even. Only when you have 4 gold from commerce before the marketplace will the marketplace make you money... and then only one gold. So, if you have your sci. rate at 90% or 100%, probably also 80% and to a lesser extent 70%, (given no luxuries) even marketplaces will either cost you money, break even, or do very little. The reverse works for libraries, except that 1 extra science unit comes into play at 2 beakers... you just basically convert your maintainence cost into an extra beaker this way. So, libraries and universitities end up as more important for this sort of strategy, as soon as the GL ends. Of course, you'll want some marketplaces and banks so that you can bulid stock exchanges for Wall Street, once you have hospitals or large enough cities that even 10% commerce makes commercial improvements worthwhile, and for those few turns when you can adjust that science slider back to 60% or so and still get your technology in N turns. Of course, what works most effectively will vary depending on city size, commerce level, and so on... but consider if you have a city at size 12 producing 26 commerce, and you have your science slide set at 90% (fairly generous high middle age condition). Then you'll have 2.6, or, 2 or 3 going to taxes (depending on how the game rounds), with the rest going to science. Either way a marketplace either costs you or just sits there. A library will give you 11 or 12 extra science, and university will compound that effect (50% of the original 23 or 24 beakers... or 50% of the 32 to 36 beakers you produce with the library??? I don't know). Of course, for a metropolis with 40 commerce, a marketplace makes cash at even 10% taxes. But, depending on commerce bonuses, many cities will need a hospital for that.
Pyrrhos... the GL won't trigger a GA for Sumeria or Greece unless you also have another wonder built which matches the other trait. For Greece along with the GLB you need a commercial wonder, such as the Colossus (on Deity???) or Smith's Trading Company (maybe) if you want to trigger your GA via wonders. For Sumeria you would need an agricultural wonder along with the GLB such as the Pyramids (on Deity???), Hanging Gardens (on Deity???), Universal Suffrage, or Hoover Dam.
For a pre-build on the Great Library, you can either play as industrious, or use those king units to get early contacts and then trade around for masonry... probably after you've traded around for alphabet... and you can probably use alphabet to trade for masonry.
For another example see "Deity Builder" in the stories and forums thread or click here http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=281173
Parts of this perhaps. I can't see the main idea giving much help on Chieftain though, as I don't know why you want The Great Library there other than for culture and they don't really have all that much cash from what I've seen.
Spoonwood, I was wondering how you managed to get some of the wonders done so fast. The Iroquois game especially. Salamanca made Sufferage in 640AD and then in 770AD finished Hoovers. They are both 800 shields and Salamanc is making a base of 12 shields and boosted to 24.
Byz game also was impressive with the capitol making US in 660AD, ToE in 800 and Hoover in 930AD. It is a bit better of a city in that it has 16 base shields.
Byz game also was impressive with the capitol making US in 660AD, ToE in 800 and Hoover in 930AD. It is a bit better of a city in that it has 16 base shields.
VMXA,
1) The quick tech pace. O.K., so that doesn't explain much.
2) In short, you only see the final configuration here. In a diplo. or potentially space game like these (I tend to think differently for a 20k game and I know I *would* think differently for an industrial/modern age conquest/domination game), once I get Steam Power I usually like to rail everything up first... if I have coal, of course. After I've done that, except for cities building special projects like wonders, my cities usually have hospitals, so I irrigate everything to speed growth, since I don't really need production at that point, and so I have more specialists. Oh wait... I'd better go back. In the ancient ages I usually mine green/irrigate brown and food bonus squares. In the early middle ages I usually do much of the same, sometimes I irrigate a little green. In the high medieval period when I have cities hit size 12 (maybe due to adding in workers), I'll mine/forest until my cities produce as many shields as they can. I more or less stick with that configuration until I irrigate in the industrial age, except for maybe chopping a few forests once rails appear. The cities I have producing the three industrial great wonders don't get irrigated until they've finished their wonders, or I'll consider re-mining to get those in faster.
1) The quick tech pace. O.K., so that doesn't explain much.
2) In short, you only see the final configuration here. In a diplo. or potentially space game like these (I tend to think differently for a 20k game and I know I *would* think differently for an industrial/modern age conquest/domination game), once I get Steam Power I usually like to rail everything up first... if I have coal, of course. After I've done that, except for cities building special projects like wonders, my cities usually have hospitals, so I irrigate everything to speed growth, since I don't really need production at that point, and so I have more specialists. Oh wait... I'd better go back. In the ancient ages I usually mine green/irrigate brown and food bonus squares. In the early middle ages I usually do much of the same, sometimes I irrigate a little green. In the high medieval period when I have cities hit size 12 (maybe due to adding in workers), I'll mine/forest until my cities produce as many shields as they can. I more or less stick with that configuration until I irrigate in the industrial age, except for maybe chopping a few forests once rails appear. The cities I have producing the three industrial great wonders don't get irrigated until they've finished their wonders, or I'll consider re-mining to get those in faster.
Jokeslayer
Dedicated
Two things I'd say here:
Depending on the number of luxes/size of the city, the marketplace's effect of increasing the content faces can be very useful.
The marketplace might not always produce money when you're running very high science, but usually it's possible to drop the sci slider in the last turn or two. The marketplace can pay for itself in that turn. And if you have Adam Smith's, of course, it's free money.
Zardnaar
Deity
Great article. I'm gonna dig up civ3 again and try it out.
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