SGOTM 15 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

Sleepless · May 7, 2012

PPP sounds good to me as well. I don't think we need any more fast workers as they don't have alot to do once Kyoto is back up and running.

City builds in legendary cities should be the most culture for least hammers so monuments - monasteries but they should be concentrating on artists mostly instead of buildings.

Military once we have machinery I would start some maces for kyoto from Palitpura. If we have to go on the attack they would be our strongest units. Remember we still ahve Liz/HC and GK out for us. Whether anything materialises we don't want to get caught like last time. Tbh though the only one I'm worried about is Liz.

No real need to stop now unless we are declared on. Just check for better resource deals and selling techs for cash etc.

Note once Kyoto finishes its Stupa get the stone back from HC to spped the cathederal. Also one forest left near Kyoto for chopping. Don't want to miss that one.

Edit. Great people. Bombay has a gp due in 4 turns though it will be later due to Vijays being due. As its odds for a prophet are very high we should make sure we get artists from Vijay/Agra first so Bombay spens longer on artists.?

adrianj · May 7, 2012

I've been playing around with the GPP spreadsheet some more.

Patal is another city that we don't need to produce any GArtists. I suggest we assign a few merchants here instead of the artists. The city doesn't need to be starving either, you could put one of the pop back on to a GMine.

As Sleepless notes, we could swap Agra and Bombay so Agra produces GArtist first and Bombay gets higher odds. To achieve this we should slow Bombay down slightly (fire 2 artists). In a couple turns from now, hire an extra in Agra (slowly starving). Hopefully Agra should produce a GArtist before Bombay without needing to lose any Agra population through starving. We don't want to starve Agra down, because it will be producing another GArtist later on.

adrianj · May 7, 2012

Accumulated :gp:

is always rounded down to the nearest integer each turn isn't it?

If a city is producing say 15 raw :gp:

/turn (like Agra), it should pruduce 15*3.5 = 52.5. However, it actually produces only 52, the 0.5 is wasted. If that same city oscillated between 12 and 18 :gp:

/turn then nothing would get wasted.

Just sayin'...

adrianj · May 7, 2012

I've updated the GPP spreadsheet, and fixed the GPP rounding formula.

GPP Spreadsheet

The order we can expect GArtists to be born is:

T179: Vijay. Just steady as she goes. (cost 900)
T184: Agra. See below for more detail. (1000)
T188: Bombay. See below for detail. (1200)
T194: Kyoto. Hire 7 artists from T188. (1400)
T203: Tokyo. Could improve this date with some starvation, but not strictly necessary. Last one from here. (1600)
T212: Kyoto (1800)
T218: Bombay. (2000)
T222: Vijay. Last one from here. (2200)
T228: Varanasi. Last one from here. (2400)
T234: Agra. Last one from here. (2600)
T238: Kyoto. (2800)
T242: Delhi. not great odds though. (3000).

I suggest we get Bombay to build Heroic Epic from now. It should fire at least 2 artists (keep 3 on) so might as well put them to work in the mines. Once Agra has produced a GArtist, Bombay can assign 5 artists again.

This should give us 10 GArtists pretty much guaranteed, but up to 13 if we're lucky. The two from Bombay have a chance of being non-GA, the last one from Delhi has quite a high chance of being non-GA.

Grifftavian · May 7, 2012

adrianj said:
I've updated the GPP spreadsheet, and fixed the GPP rounding formula.

GPP Spreadsheet

The order we can expect GArtists to be born is:

T179: Vijay. Just steady as she goes. (cost 900)
T184: Agra. See below for more detail. (1000)
T188: Bombay. See below for detail. (1200)
T194: Kyoto. Hire 7 artists from T188. (1400)
T203: Tokyo. Could improve this date with some starvation, but not strictly necessary. Last one from here. (1600)
T212: Kyoto (1800)
T218: Bombay. (2000)
T222: Vijay. Last one from here. (2200)
T228: Varanasi. Last one from here. (2400)
T234: Agra. Last one from here. (2600)
T238: Kyoto. (2800)
T242: Delhi. not great odds though. (3000).

I suggest we get Bombay to build Heroic Epic from now. It should fire at least 2 artists (keep 3 on) so might as well put them to work in the mines. Once Agra has produced a GArtist, Bombay can assign 5 artists again.

This should give us 10 GArtists pretty much guaranteed, but up to 13 if we're lucky. The two from Bombay have a chance of being non-GA, the last one from Delhi has quite a high chance of being non-GA.

Thanks, aj! Excellent to outstanding analysis, as usual! :goodjob:

I was going to ask about the Heroic Epic. I'll put it in at the top of Bombay's build queue!

Grifftavian · May 7, 2012

PPP for the next few turns starting T178/1180 AD

Questions in Blue
Updates in Maroon

RESEARCH

Continue research on Guilds -> Banking path @ 0% Science pending trades

TECH TRADES

This turn: Trade Theology + 15 Gold for Metal Casting.
Next turn: Trade Education for as much as we can get.
Turn after next: See if we can trade Hammy Liberalism or something else, hopefully getting Guilds.
Check for new trade deals every turn.

DIPOLMACY

Sign Defensive Pact with Hammy this turn.
Be nice to everyone else.
Encourage heathens to convert to Hinduism or adopt Free Religion.

CITY BUILDS

Delhi: finish Hermitage (3T); Monument; Buddhist Monastery; University; Culture.

Bombay: change to Heroic Epic; finish Theater (5T); Christian Monastery; Buddhist Monastery; University; Culture.

Vijay: continue building Wealth & running Artist Specialists

Pata: finish Spearamn (2T); Wealth until we get Machinery, then some Macemen.
Pata currently starving @ -1 Food/turn; fix it? Yes, and change to Merchant Specialists.
Build Iron Mine near Pata? No.

Vara: continue building Wealth & running Artist Specialists

Osaka: continue building Wealth & running Merchant Specialists
Do we need another Fast Worker? No.

Toyko: continue building Wealth & running Artist Specialists

Kyoto: finish Buddhist Stupa (8T); finish Christian Cathedral (11T) (get Stone back!); Monument; Christian Monastery; University; Culture.

Agra: continue building Wealth & running Artist Specialists. Generate GA before Bombay!

FAST WORKER ACTION PLAN

Replace improvement on east side of Kyoto.
Farms for Wealth/Artist cities.

UNIT MOVES

Military units to Kyoto or Fort NW of Pata.
Work Boat 3 to explore West toward Inca.

CIVICS CHANGES & OTHER STUFF

No Civics changes planned. Change to Mercantilism if/when we get Banking!
Will be nice toward everyone.

REASONS TO PAUSE

Anything out of the ordinary (like a large stack of units showing up).

adrianj · May 7, 2012

Nothing in blue there Griff :goodjob:

A few points:

1) After the Stupa is built in Kyoto, start assigning more artists. It will slow the Cathedral build, but I think that is ok. The only mine you should work is the powerful copper mine - once it is back up of course.

2) Add a forest chop to the list of worker actions near Kyoto.

3) Don't run too many merchant specs in Osaka. GMines are preferable. Same goes for Patal.

4) When you trade out Education next turn, make sure Machinery is definitely in the list of techs we receive. Calendar is also high priority. If you need to do away with one or two, drop HBR and Compass. Picking up Guilds on subsequent turn would be super excellent.

5) The order to build culture buildings should be:

culture:/

)

Theatre (0.06), Monument (0.033), Monasteries (0.033), University (0.03). Looks like you've already mastered this, I just wanted to make sure you've got the theatres in there.

Sleepless · May 7, 2012

We should plan to build Palits iron mine. Just not high priority otherwise everything sounds good.

Nice work with gp production aj :goodjob:

Ozbenno · May 7, 2012

Are we likely to flip a city (thinking Hatty in the east). If we are, what should we do with it?

And very nice GP work aj!!

adrianj · May 7, 2012

Ozbenno said:
Are we likely to flip a city (thinking Hatty in the east). If we are, what should we do with it?

I think we should strictly avoid this.
Extra cities will add maintenance, and not have enough time to contribute anything much (in terms of GArtists). They also stretch our borders further out. I quite like our two tidy bottlenecks that are easy to defend.

If the option arises, I wonder if the city would be razed if we refused? I've seen this happen in normal games, but with the No City Razing option I suspect it would simply stay in the original owner's hands.

I did consider that gaining a city with Judaism (or some other 4th religion) would be good, but I think it's now too late in the game for us to get any benefit.

adrianj · May 7, 2012

Another random thought: Should we drop a GArtist bomb in Kyoto right now already?

It should expand Kyoto's borders another ring, which would give us an extra turn to react if an angry AI stack comes towards us from that direction.

The only down side I can think of is if by some unfortunate event Kyoto gets captured, it will end up being a wasted artist. But we have plenty of incentive to stop that happening!

Ozbenno · May 8, 2012

adrianj said:
Another random thought: Should we drop a GArtist bomb in Kyoto right now already?

How soon until we acquire those tiles by natural culture pressure? We will be overwhelming Hatty's culture here for sure.

Sleepless · May 8, 2012

We are already up to the borders of Satsuma so 3 tiles/turns to get to us unless its all mounted then there will be no siege so should have 3 turns grace.

Agree we refuse to take a city which wants to become part of the great Indian Empire. If we have to take them (doubtful) wouldn't bother garrisoning them and just run a load of merchants.

Ronnie1 · May 8, 2012

PPP looks good.

1 question, because we are Philosophical, are Universities before Monasteries a better option? I don't know, just asking.

Perhaps Patal should build the National Wonder 'Transportation Security Administration'. I think techs required are Flight and Fascism.

That is frickin funny!

adrianj · May 8, 2012

Sleepless said:
We are already up to the borders of Satsuma so 3 tiles/turns to get to us unless its all mounted then there will be no siege so should have 3 turns grace.

Agree we refuse to take a city which wants to become part of the great Indian Empire. If we have to take them (doubtful) wouldn't bother garrisoning them and just run a load of merchants.

Ah, Satsuma. So, yeah, bombing Kyoto early serves no useful purpose whatsover.

Ronnie1 said:
PPP looks good.

1 question, because we are Philosophical, are Universities before Monasteries a better option? I don't know, just asking.

No. Unis = 200/2 = 100 :hammers:

for 3

, = 0.03

/

. Monasteries = 60 :hammers:

for 2

, 0.0333

/

, so slightly better.

Perhaps Patal should build the National Wonder 'Transportation Security Administration'. I think techs required are Flight and Fascism.

Click to expand...

That is frickin funny!

I'm glad someone read it

The suspense is killing me Griff :mischief:

By the way - I just noticed that Hammu doesn't actually know Guilds. Picking it up in trade is therefore difficult. He does have Engineering though (has some Pikes) which would be a good tech to pick up.

Huayna and Hammu are pleased with us. Should we try begging 10 :gold:

off Huayna for some enforced peace? And then off Hammu after our current peace deal ends?

Sleepless · May 8, 2012

Mmm TSA?? Just googled it as I had no idea what it is. Think I'm still missing something somewhere...

Actually got there in the end... I think :lol:

I would save the 10 gold with HC for the moment as there might come a time when its more important to beg..

Grifftavian · May 8, 2012

Looks like we have a majority on board with the PPP, so I'll plan on starting my turn set ~2 hours from this post. Last call for comments!

Grifftavian · May 8, 2012

adrianj said:
...

3) Don't run too many merchant specs in Osaka. GMines are preferable. Same goes for Patal....

Don't believe either city will run more than 2 Merchant specialists. Osaka is growing slowly at +1 food/turn, when the new citizen is born, I'll assign him to a Grass Hill Mine and stagnate growth in Osaka. Pata is starving at -1 food/turn, but reassigning one Artist to a Mine and moving the other two Artists to Merchants will stagnate growth in Pata with 2 Merchants.

Sleepless said:
We should plan to build Palits iron mine. Just not high priority ...

Noted; I'll work this in.

Off to start my turn set in the next few minutes.

Grifftavian · May 8, 2012

I've played 15 turns. Game uploaded to P&R page, or get it with following link...

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm15/Misfit_Gypsy_Nuts_SG015_AD1330_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1180 AD to 1330 AD:

Spoiler :

Turn Set Autolog...

Spoiler :

Report to follow.

Grifftavian · May 8, 2012

Things went as planned. IIRC, there were 3 Great Artists born. We now have a total of 5 Great Artists in reserve, 2 are sleeping in Kyoto & 3 are sleeping in Bombay.

IBT T187/T188 GA born in Bombay @ 57% chance! :woohoo:

IBT T191/T192 GA born in Kyoto @ 82% chance!

Legendary City status...

Delhi = 40 turns to Legendary
Bombay = 100 turns to Legendary
Kyoto = 2 turns to Influential

Made the Tech trades with Hammy previously discussed. Had to research Guilds & Banking without benefit of trades, but we have them now. I've put a couple of turns into Engineering, thinking we may want a Castle in Kyoto, plus the road movement bonus and the ability to upgrade Spears to Pikes if another war develops.

I've sold or gifted Liberalism & Banking to any who needed them. After all our efforts to get Hinduism to all of Hammy's cities, he has adopted Free Religion of his own accord. The Inca/Mali team have adopted Mercantilism, so we're getting a +1 attitude bonus with them, as I adopted Mercantilism after learning Banking. I did go through all of our cities and made sure the free specialist form Merc was an Artist, except in Osaka & Pata, which are both running 2 Merchants.

Speaking of War, Liz became friendly with us, and the opportunity to sign a Defensive Pact with her came up, so I signed it! There were multiple DP's signed among the AI Civs, so maybe that will preclude any wars.

I managed to stay at 80% Culture the entire turn set, but was never able to increase it above that without draining the treasury any more than we were. Now that we have Guilds & Banking, should we consider building some Grocers & Banks? The Banana Plantation has been built, so a Grocer will give +1 :health:

in addition to the +25% :gold:

.

I don't want to hog all the fun, so I'm happy to turn it over to the next person here, but if nobody is available to play right away, I could play a few more turns if needed.

SGOTM 15 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Emperor

Emperor

Deity

Deity

Fly Fly Away

Deity

Deity

Fly Fly Away

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Emperor

Emperor

Emperor

Emperor

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