Ship Builds

grubbs

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 1, 2014
Messages
3
Hello all,

I'm looking for some common ship builds that you guys use throughout early/mid/late game. I generally go Uni/Tol and have just started playing on impossible. How do your ships hit the enemy when they seem to have 100+ ship defense even in the early stages of the game? I've learned how useful nuke and merc missiles are, especially with the mods, but when do I switch over to lasers?
 
I would say when you are making battleships and have a computer to boost accuracy.
 
I always include a computer. How much do leaders play into it? On repulsive I rarely get leaders or any good ones, maybe thats why my accuracy isn't cutting it?
 
I don't know how much they factor into hitting chances, depends on the leader. I play Rep as well. I only want to get one of the commando leaders from invasion and Loknar. A bonus, if a science leader shows up.

Computers are hard to come by for non creative races. You have to give up something you need.
 
"I don't know how much they factor into hitting chances, depends on the leader." - exactly on theyr amount of Weaponry for whole fleet. And you usually want to have at least on Navigator, as it game-breaking. Also with games versus AI you simply dont need to switch to beams from fighters\missiles as all AI is dead before they are able to manage to survive missiles via tech.
 
So you stick with MIRV Mercs the entire game? VMXA, I've read a bunch of your gameplay threads, what's your build for your 18 Merc BBs?
 
For any missile ship, I would put in a dither slot or 2. Then whatever the best missile I have at the time.

So early I would make a slot or more than 1 with a nuke with or without mods, depends what you have. The a number of slots with the next missile type, say a merc and what mods, depends what the job they are need for at that time.

Early it may be all nukes with just a mod(s) on the 3rd slot and any that follow. The idea is you want to get agro on the cheap missile, so the better ones can get in and hit.

On a huge map, I will get to beam ships as it will take a long time to get to the whole map. The AI will have a lots of ships and missiles will not be able to take down a large fleet, due to max of 5 shots.
 
So you stick with MIRV Mercs the entire game? VMXA, I've read a bunch of your gameplay threads, what's your build for your 18 Merc BBs?

My Merc 18 BB's are BB's with Rein Hull, Battle Pods, and and 18 2 shot, fast, armored,ECCM MIRV Mercs. Playing with Ship Inititive on as I do now I also usually toss on the best computer that I have.

I usually break the 18 into 4 groups of 5 and 4 missiles. It would likely be optimal to break them into smaller groups and use all the weapons bays, but I am lazy and you can't save ship designs and these ships are absolute killers vs the AI until late game anyhow. You also won't have much of a late game when using some custom race as good as UniTol since you've likely won or almost won b4 then.

Perhaps I could make a slightly more effective ship by putting MIRV Nukes in the first bay or two to absorb enemy counter missile fire, but these ships are good enough as I make them and sometimes few missiles are shot down along the way and I want everything that hits to do great damage.

Of course once you have EMG, you can add that to some missiles as well and these definately go in the last couple of weapons bays as you don't want these shot down.

.. neilkaz ..
 
I'm pretty new to moo2 and have a ton of questions about ship building and combat. Right now I crush the game on average difficulty basically by out teching/producing everyone. I have been sticking to beam weapons and always using heavy armor/structure on my ships and just duking it out. I always kill theirs before they kill mins cus I have better construction techs and usually one or two levels of beam weapons higher.

But it sounds from this thread that heavy armor/structure aren't worth it and beams aren't ideal. I should look into making elusive missile boats instead for early fighting? How do you determine the range of a beam weapon so you can stay away? Do you put on any point defense weapons to take out opposing fighters or missiles? Are fighter and bomber bays any good?

I'm also figuring these are pretty much for early game supremacy and then late game if going for orion or antares you build death stars full of maulers or death rays.
 
Generally is very easy to kill AI ships, as they are of nonsence design. To easily win game with AI you could skip anything beside imbalanced fighter bays, if you see this as too cheap - mirved nukes is enough to win too, also you can do it with lasers, tho its somewhat harder. Heavy armor is not usually worth a space on ship. Range is 50 for HE 23 for NO 11 for PD, but it maximun range, and unless its max +attack race you can ignore distant shots from AI untill it will get 100 targeting comp (cannot happen unless you play intentionally bad race or simply let AI do live SO long). But as its a powerhouse of early game where trageting is not exist, you bring fighters/2-shot missile ships (destroyers or battleships) along with 2-3 emptly scounts, ideally with augmented engines and battle pods, and you just retreat main ships after they shot theyr payload, while flying frigates to opposite end of screen from the enemy. After it you fly some more turns with frigates, waiting till missiles will hit theyr target. So actually range of beam of no matter, and AI is unable to shot a missiles in a right way, so they are utterly effective even with such easy (and not actually good) way. In case you want to skip fighters\nukes and use lasers - you load ships with only 360 radius PD and one Heavy beam (actually versus AI you could even use FX PD with ease). Bomber bays are absolutely useless in vanilla moo2 unless you intentionally want to use them, just for the sake of it. No orion or antares requre maulers or death rays, they requre EMG missiles, merculite for orion, and even nukes for antares (tho you also need to bring something else to kill fat starfortress). Also this http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005/03/master-of-orion-ii-strategy-guide.html could be good for new player, but ideally also some other deep reading in other articles.
 
Is this MoO2 or classic? In classic, I always thought the optimal strategy was to max out maneuverability through engines and maximize your targeting computer. Shields and ECMs, except in a few specific cases, largely cannot keep up with more maneuverable ships in a fight.
 
I almost always win on hard, but have not yet won on impossible, so keep in mind I am not the best here.

I play a tech-and-expansion game with a repulsive, creative race.

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In the early game, I build a few battleships with whatever my newest missile is. They have battle pods, but that's it. Maybe they have class 1 shields, but usually not. They serve as a deterrent to attackers, and (with transports) take a few colonies from anyone who attacks me.

I fire a missile salvo, and turn to run. Fire again, and turn again. Fire again, and run. Repeat until all enemy ships are destroyed. Why the AI guides missile-only ships in close against beam ships is beyond me.

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Later, I build battleships with those scanners that add 50% to targeting, class 3 shields, and a bunch of one kind of beam weapon. The beam weapons are always neutron beams or phasors. (I add more Neutron beams when I get the tech to build graviton beams, and I pack in more phasors when I get the tech to build disruptors. "At some point quantity has a quality all its own.") I configure them as forward extended, and neither point defense nor heavy mount. I use the beams mainly for defense against missiles and fighters.

The important thing is to not let the computer control these ships in combat. You target fighters first, then missiles, then mobile enemy ships from smallest to largest. Board and capture anything that is immobile, though star base / battle stations / star fortresses need a lot of raiding first. Move forward as aggressively as you can. Your beam weapons loose hit points with range.

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Much later, I fill titans with forward-extended phasors, class 5 shields, battle pods, scanners, high-energy focuses, and those capacitors that let you have an extra beam shot.

The same tactics apply to titans as to battle ships.

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Finally, there is the all-important scout. It should have extended fuel tanks, one very cheap weapon , and possibly augmented engines (is that what they are called?) and possibly troop pods. There are 4 uses for the all-important scout:

(1) Scouting distant star systems (this the extended fuel tanks)

(2) Destroying enemy transports that arrive at Your system after their fleet has been destroyed, has fled, or has been recalled because you took the planet that was resupplying them. I often build one transport just to kill 16 or 20 transports.

(3) In combat against a star base / battle station / star fortress, scouts lead the way. They fly in faster than anyone else and begin raiding the star base with their marines. Destroying half the stations weapons makes it much easier to get capitol ships in close enough to board it.

(4) If the scouts are destroyed before they get to the star base, at least they took the hits in place of the capitol ships. Just like wet navy destroyers have traditionally screened their capitol ships, these scouts protect their capitol ships.
 
I have a couple of wins on Impossible with stock races and just found out I am missing the basics of ship design.

Spoiler :

Its not about late-game designs, its about basic shipbuilding. You need to leave at least 1 free space on a ship (unless its absolutely impossible, but its a truly exotic case), as you will rise a speed by 1 then, that is a best use for 1 given point of space. You missed the Augmented engines and Inertial stablizer (must-be overall exept some early ships), and battle scanner (must-be for a beam ship, without it no need to use non-PD beams). While its possible to use F PD beams VS AI, due to total incapability of AI in a battle, its a bad habit still. PD should be 360, as your ships wouldnt be able to self-defence in case of missile heading from slightly wrong direction, and you will have a huge problem on concentrating the fire on missile during missile destroying maneuvers perfomed by a whole fleet. Its also quite handy to have Heavy beams as Fx, but it not really needed all the time, if fleet is really late and big - F is fine too, as you just shoot forward with it anyway. Normal beams are of low value generally, exept some special cases, say Plasma cannon, as they are of less range, and dissipate more on a given distance, compared to Heavy ones. By the same time PD modification is much more effective for a defence function, compared to Normal. Generally, the later game stage is, and more developed technology is used - the more important the beams become, very late ships could easily use only Heavy load (as you just inflicting heavy blow with one strike), while early one need a huge PD load with 1-2 Heavy beams.

More specifically: for a late beam ship, beside a real 100\125 computer one also want some overpowered techs - High Energy Focus, Structural Analyzer and Hyper-X capacitors (surely its possible to wreak havoc on AI without all the stuff).

Heavy armor - you can prefer HA over Rhull only versus AP weapons, that are pretty rare. Rhull, while offering same HP increase, also triple the Engine's HP, making the ship much more reliable and sustainable to damage. Also Rhull is important VS structure-damaging weapons, while HA simply have no effect at all in that case. Surely there is nothing bad at all to use them together, beside the space.

Autorepair - unlike moo1, where it is a good technology, moo2 autorepair is simply crap. Surely it can work versus AI, that is unable to concentrate fire on a ship and just randomly aim on some closest target, but using it is a distraction and a bad taste still. Goal is to prevent a damage to a ships at all, as much as possible, not autorepair them for a pretty large chunk of space (and that space is totally wasted, until the ship is actually damaged, so it just weaken the weaponload that time).

Weapon themselves is the least important here, but Death Rays are really weak weapon (compared to middle-late beams), and Lasers are simply better than Fusions for PD (you need to use all the mods, obviously).

In a summary - the certain ship have horrible low Beam Attack value for a beam ship (in classic moo2 - problem of actual beam ship is lack of good targeting computer, not actual beams, and good computers came really late), making it able to hit Starbases only on a regular basis (and probably some AI tin cans of worst designs too), have a weak damage payload, and basically non-existent missile defence capabilities. Surely would work versus Antares still.

Thanks Darza!

So what works in the Civ4 forum should also work here. Post a screenshot and invite criticism. :)
 
I forgot to add: I try not to lose ships. (I know, it sounds obvious, but I go all out here.)

I build a fleet that can kill anything and conquer the galaxy while only providing more transports.

This starts with being cybernetic, which means my ships repair themselves after every combat.

Then I only build large ships (except for the scouts.)

Finally, I throw more ships at the enemy than is needed. Throwing in twice as many ships means loosing fewer ships. When I can defeat all the enemy's fighters and missiles, I have a chance. When I can trash the enemy's fleet before they can get to their first move, I have won the war.
 
I have a couple of wins on Impossible with stock races and just found out I am missing the basics of ship design.

Thanks Darza!

So what works in the Civ4 forum should also work here. Post a screenshot and invite criticism. :)

If you mean sarcasm here - then probably my fault is in word "basic". I meant it here as "non-special" (as some special shipbuilds not following the basic shipbuilding, but its exclude, not a rule), not as if you "have no idea what to do at all". And it was not criticism, it was explanation. If i got you wrong, and you didnt meant it - forget it.
(One doesnt need to build a good ships to get a couple wins with stock races, techically good ships are needed only to never lose with stock races, or, if you simply want a good ships (say about human)).
 
No sarcasm intended - It was a good explanation on how to build better ships so the next time I play MOO2 I will read up on it.
 
I've played on Impossible since release. No need for a computer on a missile ship as I'm pretty sure it only aids beam targeting. Lots of games (small galaxy size) can be won with nothing better than a few ships with 2x MIRV Merculite or Pulson missiles with ECCM from a sub-Titan ship with Reinforced Armor. If you want to take down Orion all you need is a few of these ships and then you can refit with the goodies you get from Orion or from Loknar's ship. I don't have much trouble with missiles being stopped when they have ECCM, Fast and Heavy Armor but if so then the first rack would be of a lesser vanilla missile type. Fast missile racks can also make nearly impossible battles go your way as you can launch everything at once.

The risk with missile ships is you can destroy much or all of a planet with overkill when you try to take out planetary missile bases and other defenses. If the AI only has minimal armor then a MIRV of Pulsons could obliterate everything, including the population you want to pacify to boost your score.

The best beam weapon for it's size is the Plasma Cannon, I always use the heavy version for greater range and power. It hits all four shields meaning quadruple damage and if you add in High Energy Focus, Structural Analyzer or Achilles Targeting, it doesn't take many cannons to destroy any enemy ship, even Antarans. I don't often bother with shields as it takes up room I could use for weapons and with a good computer my move is usually first meaning they don't get to fire at all most of the time. Shields don't work against Antaran weapons either.

If I want to beat the Antarans I always take Orion, sometimes using a saved game until I get the tech I need which is at least Damper Field. Xentronium Armor is also nice but Damper Field cuts all incoming damage by 3/4 which means even Neutronium Armor is adequate if you add in Reinforced Hull/Heavy Armor.
 
Well computers aren't useless on a missile boat, they raise initiative. There are some points where initiative is so important that people lacking a good computer will mount augmented engines... but since I can't remember the details, I'll shut up here.
 
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