reddishrecue
Some dude on civfans
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Ind could be interesting since you can build forges up quicker also.
Micro-managing specialists - essential or not?
- Thread starter FlorbFnarb
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Ind could be interesting since you can build forges up quicker also.
Imperator Knoedel
Simperator Knoedel
Ind is definitely a top tier trait, though you need to actively micromanage a ton for it to be really effective, similar to Spiritual.
reddishrecue
Some dude on civfans
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No, the only difference is that ind increases wonder production while spiritual gives you no anarchy during revolutions.
The only similarity is quick forges and quick temples = quick priests and quick engineer.
Imperator Knoedel
Simperator Knoedel
wat. How is that in any way related to what I said?
Seraiel
If you want anything from I please ask in German
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I think he wanted to say to you, that IND doesn't take huge amounts of micromanaging, like SPI does.
The 2nd sentence is because he still hasn't internalized that Priests are mostly bad GPs, and quick Forges are because he doesn't whip / chop enough, otherwise, non-IND-Forges would be as quick. Cheap Forges would be better.
reddishrecue
Some dude on civfans
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You don't need spiritual or industrial trait that much when you can whip to 1.. these production GPs won't be available particularly when you whip to 1.
Seraiel
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No, you should aim for GSs and GEs, not Priests. Whipping to size 1 is a war-tactic or a tactic for cultural-helper-cities, don't necessarily do it, as there are various circumstances, under which growing cities makes sense, like you i. e. not being at war, so that once you go to war, you can whip them down. Advantage: Units stored in population that can be whipped don't cost maintenance, but even bring in gold, when i. e. working a Cottage.
You should also always at least try, to let your capital grow to happy-cap, once the initial Settlers are out. Your capital runs Bureacracy at most times and is your most important city with probably also having an Academy, care for it.
Imperator Knoedel
Simperator Knoedel
Well maybe not quite as much micromanaging as SPI, but you still need to take care of where to invest hammers in what wonder for the purpose of failgold, especially with national wonders.
reddishrecue
Some dude on civfans
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Bureaucracy and academy looks like a good combo for a science city. Cottages are good gold. I remember recently starting out a civilization 4 bts random game on deity difficulty and tried that slavery strategy out by producing axemen. I did have good production where I ended up with 4 cities. However, I wasn't able to get that much technology or units that weren't that good since eventually the neighbor attacked with crossbowmen and catapults.. You'd know how that went..
Seraiel
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Deity in CIV4 takes months to conquer and years to master. If you don't "study" the game excessively, so 8h+ / day, prepare for needing some years, 'til you'll beat Deity.
@Seraiel
In post #67 you mention whipping to size 1 as a tactic for culture helper cities. I tend to play in a decidedly 'uncultured' fashion meaning--I hate CV games
and have only gone for culture a handful of times mainly due to necessity.
I mention this because I have no idea what a culture helper city is nor what whipping such a city to size 1 would accomplish
. I'm guessing maybe a culture helper city might be one dedicated to producing primarily missionaries (and the applicable temples). Is this what you meant? Or, whipping spies maybe...? 
In post #67 you mention whipping to size 1 as a tactic for culture helper cities. I tend to play in a decidedly 'uncultured' fashion meaning--I hate CV games
and have only gone for culture a handful of times mainly due to necessity.I mention this because I have no idea what a culture helper city is nor what whipping such a city to size 1 would accomplish
. I'm guessing maybe a culture helper city might be one dedicated to producing primarily missionaries (and the applicable temples). Is this what you meant? Or, whipping spies maybe...? 
elitetroops
Deity
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Yes, a culture helper city is needed for missionaries and temples. And of course to grow cottages for the cultural cities that use them, so don't go whipping them to size 1 just for the sake of it... The cultural cities need to get up cathedrals and marble wonders, so it is best if the outer cities can handle religion spread and as many temples as possible. Also, you don't want to whip your cultural cottage cities very much, so they cannot produce temples and missionaries as fast.
A mistake I've made often. A city doesn't need a temple to build a cathedral.
I wonder if players micromanage production to get the extra/bonus (25%) hammer(s) from a forge and/or OR.
Imperator Knoedel
Simperator Knoedel
Ho boy you have no idea. I'm running priests more often than I should because otherwise I'd have for example only 19 hammers instead of 20 and I really really don't like it when my base production doesn't mesh perfectly with the modifiers. It's even worse when I'm running State Property.
Seraiel
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I always do that, and try to get multiples of 4, so 4, 8, 12, 16 or 20 :hammmers: as city production. I sometimes even work supposedly "bad" tiles for that, because those can become good-tiles with an extra
.The "rule of multiples of four" I generally always micromanage--however, in certain cases, microing tiles to remove hammers in preparation for a 2pop whip the next turn can be good.
I play standard speed pretty much always and an example that comes to mind is wanting to 2pop whip a build costing 60 hammers and you have a forge. So each pop whipped gives 37 hammers (rounded down). I cannot tell you the number of times I've sought to maximize the OF but mistakenly put 23 hammers into that 60 hammer build. And then--it becomes a 1 pop whip....
Queue another build and try again...
I play standard speed pretty much always and an example that comes to mind is wanting to 2pop whip a build costing 60 hammers and you have a forge. So each pop whipped gives 37 hammers (rounded down). I cannot tell you the number of times I've sought to maximize the OF but mistakenly put 23 hammers into that 60 hammer build. And then--it becomes a 1 pop whip....
Queue another build and try again...
Pangaea
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The "rule of multiples of four" I generally always micromanage--however, in certain cases, microing tiles to remove hammers in preparation for a 2pop whip the next turn can be good.
I play standard speed pretty much always and an example that comes to mind is wanting to 2pop whip a build costing 60 hammers and you have a forge. So each pop whipped gives 37 hammers (rounded down). I cannot tell you the number of times I've sought to maximize the OF but mistakenly put 23 hammers into that 60 hammer build. And then--it becomes a 1 pop whip....
Queue another build and try again...
Same here, especially with the capital under Buro, as I forget you get a lot more hammers there. Also sometimes forget I was supposed to whip, go back to the city only to see that there are now 7
into an Axe or whatever. Grr.Typically don't bother to micro to the extent that I get 4,8,12 etc hammers, but often micro to time whips, which can then include working poor tiles, not work iron and even food, and so forth.
