How many Naval units You build ?

AdamCrock

AdamCrock

Polish Pirate
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
6,083
Location
Under Jolly Roger
Just how many Naval units You build ? I know it is important that You guard Your sea resources (crabs, clams and fishes) or do not get blockaded by enemy vessels. but I've been wondering how many units are optimal ? I used to alwys guard my coast with at lest few triremes/destroyers/frigates when possible. Of course a sub with tactical nuclear missiles and a transport ship with marines is always nice :) So... how many units do You build to feel that Your "coast is clear" ? Usually I end up with 50+ destroyers just to guard the coasts :O Is that to many ? Or should i just stack them together and destroy enemy navy in case of war ?
 
That depends on what the demands for the navy are. If there are advanced destroyers, I would try to stack a couple of ironclads and save them until I get destroyer technology. When destroyer technology is finally here then one would upgrade the ironclads into destroyers to defend.
When going for offense, a stack of frigates and before that, caravels to see the nearby seas of the rival navy. Once that's done, frigates and ships of the lines would be enough to get offenses. I would sneak in a galleon with land units to land on their lands, if possible and if their weaknesses aren't that bad.
 
On most maps, one can do with 0 navy.

On water-heavy maps, one maybe needs 20 ships, if one sinks most of the enemy's navy on T0 of a war, while they're stationed in a city one can conquer.

50 ships I could only imagine in highscore games, because then one needs tons of Galleons to transport the Settlers to their islands. 50 still is very very much though, maybe highscore + large map at least.

In most cases I build something like 2 Triremes to protect the northern and southern coastal entry-point of my empire, most of my games don't go 'til combustion but end with something like Cuirrassiers, Cavs or Rifles, so I mostly win without even researching Astronomy.
 
Usually 5 frigates for protection and enough galleons to transport my army overseas. In most game not much more is needed. Unfortunately the capabilities of navies are limited Civ 4.
 
covok48 said:
Usually 5 frigates for protection and enough galleons to transport my army overseas. In most game not much more is needed. Unfortunately the capabilities of navies are limited Civ 4.
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Limited civilization 4 capabilities? Are you talking about civilization 5?
 
hmm... Thanks for the insight :O I know it is obvious You don't need navy when playing Pangea map but well... it's kinda like cheating yourself You do not need a navy .... because navy is awesome ... is it not ? :)
 
AdamCrock said:
hmm... Thanks for the insight :O I know it is obvious You don't need navy when playing Pangea map but well... it's kinda like cheating yourself You do not need a navy .... because navy is awesome ... is it not ? :)
Click to expand...

Navies are great in civ 4 but they aren't that necessary. Airships are a lot more necessary than navies because they can shoot both land and air units before the modern era and its fighter/bomber combo.
 
The size of the navy is wholly dependent on the map, and your opponents. If your opponents are building a lot of Galleons or Transports, it would be wise to have some Frigates or Destroyers. It is a LOT easier to destroy an invasion stack at sea, before it hits your shores...
 
crazyotto65 said:
It is a LOT easier to destroy an invasion stack at sea, before it hits your shores...
Click to expand...

On this note, it's also much easier to destroy the enemy navy by taking the city where it parked its naval stack (as opposed to engaging in a naval battle).

This happened to me recently--after enduring Louis XIV's intercontinental invasions for centuries (he didn't do much, but once managed to pillage my only source of Iron due to my negligence) I was finally ready to take the fight to him--DoW, immediately capture his closest coastal city that has his massive stack of destroyers and transports. His power graph took a precipitous drop and he capitulated soon after.
 
Depends. If I'm playing unmodded, I usually won't build any sort of navy until I do a naval invasion (the exception, of course, would be Triremes to hunt pirates, Caravels to find people, and maybe Galleons if there's a choice island or two worth settling).


If I'm playing K-Mod, there the AI's approach to naval warfare is just downright nasty, and I find I often need to have one or two coastal cities constantly pumping out Frigates/Destroyers to hold them off. I also need to have quite a few stationed around my continent at key points so that I can see enemy invasions coming from further away.
 
Fast bombarding of fortifications is invaluable. So yes, I rather have more than less ships. Besides, upgrading Frigates to Destroyers gives a tremendous effect on powerratio.
Should also mention reducing AIs healthpoints and tradingopportunites is a good thing.
 
Well I tend to build a lot of naval units myself like I have mentioned in the first post and I've also noticed that AI is usualy stacking all of his invasion fleet together (don't know how he proceeds in some mods that emphasise AI's naval behaviour however) and the best way to stop him I figure is a tactical nuke or two (early detection is the key xD) It can simply do wonders (not to mention that since it's water You'll get no fallout to clean up afterwards). The only drawback is a diplomatic penalty. Of course a stack of conventional missiles is great too. On the other hand I wish there would be some kind of a submarine unit that can target trasports first ;)
 
reddishrecue said:
Limited civilization 4 capabilities? Are you talking about civilization 5?
Click to expand...

In previous civs ships could bombard land units, attack more than once per turn ( no promotions) take out stacks of transports, etc. nothing a navy can do that air power can't do much better.
 
Navies are bad, plain and simple answer. The hammers you put into your navy could be better used for your invasion force. The whole goal is to take the initiative and attack first, that way your only naval move is dropping off troops, or if it's later, nuking everyone to oblivion.
Even on water heavy maps I only build a few destroyers/battleships, mostly to help cover my own transports. Smothering the AI, bombarding cities, pillaging, blockading, etc is just not worth it. When you're forced by difficulty level to have either 70% of hammers on army and 30% towards navy, or 90% army 10% navy, you'll realize 90/10 wins a lot more. Naval support just isn't as good as air support, which isn't as good as nuke obliviation. Plus you don't have strong tile defense modifiers on your side, so AIs will pick away at your ships in battles that are super critical on the outcome of the war.
 
@ drewisfat: I agree mostly, except for the point that bombarding cities is not worth it. I found it always very helpful, as it can lead to very cheap or very early amphibious invasions, like i. e. with drafted Infantries and Destroyers, while the target still only has Rifles + Frigates. Ofc, Air Support is good, but it comes later, so there definately is a time-window where bombarding cities with ships is the only choice.
 
drewisfat said:
Navies are bad, plain and simple answer. The hammers you put into your navy could be better used for your invasion force. The whole goal is to take the initiative and attack first, that way your only naval move is dropping off troops, or if it's later, nuking everyone to oblivion.
Even on water heavy maps I only build a few destroyers/battleships, mostly to help cover my own transports. Smothering the AI, bombarding cities, pillaging, blockading, etc is just not worth it. When you're forced by difficulty level to have either 70% of hammers on army and 30% towards navy, or 90% army 10% navy, you'll realize 90/10 wins a lot more. Naval support just isn't as good as air support, which isn't as good as nuke obliviation. Plus you don't have strong tile defense modifiers on your side, so AIs will pick away at your ships in battles that are super critical on the outcome of the war.
Click to expand...

Carriers on the other hand are a very powerful unit - they are hmm.. how to phrase this "transmitters" of one's air power over the seas (as I see it) and You would not want that unit to be sunk on the spot I guess. They are a great support for the marines and the land invasion. Of course my favourite Civ unit of all times is the missile cruiser - I know it comes very late and most players never have used it's true potential but it's there :) I mean ... oh man so much power in such a single unit. It makes it worth a while to postpone Your unavoidable winning to make use of that vessel xD
 
I also generally build very few naval units until the later game. The leap from wooden ships to destroyers is so huge, if you get there first you own the seas - so unless I am on an island, I will often try to avoid a naval invasion until I have destroyers and transports. The bombard feature can take down a city defence in one turn (from a small stack) making a single turn conquest not only possible but cheap. I can't see much benefit in subs other than as border guards.
 
If I get the trireme quest, I'll build 11 to get the free combat 1 and promote them to caravels. Theoretically, you can get blitz for them then with 10 XP and one of the military techs.
 
Battleships are really good units.. I would prefer to build battleships and destroyers than submarines. Battleships are really powerful and clearing the navies and seas is a common thing for me when I take it easy and eventually get to the modern eras when I go for a later science victory.
 
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