Rezca
The Greatest Jaggi
Isn't that only while you're running Tribal(ism) though?
Which also cuts the income of your cities, amongst other things.
Improvement Balancing
- Thread starter Vokarya
- Start date
Isn't that only while you're running Tribal(ism) though?
Which also cuts the income of your cities, amongst other things.
I guess we can give Watermill a small yield increase, but I don't want to go any higher than +1 total. Does Watermill need an improvement right away or just in the late game? If it's an immediate need, I think it would be fine with +1 hammer immediately; if not, we can restore the +1 food at Replaceable Parts.
My preference would be for increased production or commerce, not food. I already find that there's way too much food in AnD, we don't need more (i.m.o.).
I also think Jungle Camps are rather too good.
An early civic gives an extra commerce, the yeilds I mention are without this bonus.
I think it needs something straight away, but I am not at all sure.
Jungles murder any civ unlucky enough to start in that terrain, so having the camps is a good idea.
Rezca
The Greatest Jaggi
Only in BTS. AND turned it into a wonderful place to start with the Jungle Camps and removing the
from Jungles. Don't even need Iron Working to clear them either. They might slow them down a small touch while you're waiting for the Camps to come in, but they're far from murdering. Of course, I guess the camps making them bearable was your point anyway wasn't it?
I keep wanting to go in and re-add the
from Jungles but always forget to 
I don't think Jungle starts are really bad anymore, if anything the only 'bad' start would be a Desert or Tundra/Ice locked one.
Rezca
The Greatest Jaggi
I asked about that a few times before, pretty sure there was some reasons why it was removed. I still keep thinking it's there and when I see a huge swath of jungle the first thing that comes to mind is "Cut it all down and replace with cottageeesss!"
But then as I'm doing so I remember "But Jungle Camps give food and production, and can spawn rare resources!"
So I decide to cut down only half of the jungle instead
I've had AI lurk in those Jungles pillaging my camps and for the protective bonuses, so having them all there at once just gives 'em more places to hide.
<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
I don't think jungles need unhealthiness. I'd rather decrease its values of jungle camps a bit. Since it has a chance to discover some resources, it is better than a water mill of the same total yield values.
Currently in AND I find jungles to be some of the best terrain. If you are nomadic it feels totally overpowered if you have riverside jungle to start with.
Yeah, better than watermills and 2 eras earlier.
Rezca
The Greatest Jaggi
I'd prefer the unhealthiness over reducing camp's value any further, and besides it's already been trimmed down a lot (Much to Joseph's dismay) so why cut it down any further? It'd just be like every other improvement then.
Still, Mines only give +1 production initially and can discover resources (rarely), Cottages only give +1 commerce, Jungle Camps - even after being weakened somewhat - still provide better bonuses than any other improvements at the time. Though they are exclusive to jungles, so if you don't live in a Jungle then you're out of luck.
I don't want to touch Jungle Camps any more. I think they need to be pretty good to start in order to prevent players from cutting down Jungle too early. We have moved from BTS having forest=good/jungle=bad to having forest=good/jungle=neutral/swamp=bad. Jungle Camps also don't get any additional bonuses after the bonus from Naturopathy. On top of that, while Jungle Camps can discover resources, they don't produce resources, so you have to build another improvement to actually utilize the resource and lose the JC in the process.
Rezca
The Greatest Jaggi
Swamps are the new Jungle
Don't seem nearly as common as Jungle tiles though.
Don't seem nearly as common as Jungle tiles though.
gay_Aleks
from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!
Marshes, on the other hand...
Rezca
The Greatest Jaggi
MythDragon
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2015
- Messages
- 4
Long time lurker here, while watermill was too powerfull in previous revisions i think it become nearly useless now. It is strictly worse than lumbermill when it first becomes avaliable. Forest tiles already produce 1 hammer so building a watermill doesn't give you anything in long term. Even after agricultural tools it cannot compete with other improvements in its current state.
triplebassist
Chieftain
This is probably a simple case of user error, but I can't figure out how to build a Hamlet without going through the cottage stage. The worker menu description says that a cottege will be build, and I can't find anything to tell the worker to build a Hamlet.
Have you reached Civil Service yet? The tech to direct-build the improved cottages comes about an era after the tech that enables the improved cottages to upgrade naturally. So it really only helps if you are trying to replace a previous improvement or a pillaged improvement. You should see something like this if you can build an upgraded cottage. The selected worker is able to build a Cottage or a Village (the Hamlet option is masked by the Village, but the mod doesn't handle double-masking properly).
View attachment 393005
Also, check your version number. I had to add some missing code in v958 to make the later improvements actually buildable.
Aciv4playerA
Chieftain
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2015
- Messages
- 53
I only build farms and mines at the beginning, then replace all farms with industry after I found a food corporation.
There are so many buildings to add research and commerce and also food, so that it more efficient (my gut feeling) to get as much raw hammers as possible and build staff.
There are so many buildings to add research and commerce and also food, so that it more efficient (my gut feeling) to get as much raw hammers as possible and build staff.
triplebassist
Chieftain
I should hope I researched Civil Service; I founded Shinto only 30 turns ago (not that you could have known that). Anyway, I was on rev956, so that looks like the problem. Thanks!
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