PhilBowles
Deity
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2011
- Messages
- 5,333
That makes me feel ancient... I started when Civ 1 came out, and was discussing it with a colleague who had the same experience only a couple of days ago.
Civ 4 vs. Civ 5?
- Thread starter YungPtolemy666
- Start date
That makes me feel ancient... I started when Civ 1 came out, and was discussing it with a colleague who had the same experience only a couple of days ago.
Wizard-Bob
Always remember to Find Your FUN!
I hear ya ... I was in my 30's with 2 kids when Civ 1 came out. I've been playing CivX ever since
Lexicus
Deity
DizzKneeLand33 said:
noto2 said:
Oh, the nostalgia just hit me so hard. I might actually have to fire up 3 before too long now
Another Civ III sound that will never be matched again was the sound of Knights fighting
rschissler
King
Oh, the nostalgia just hit me so hard. I might actually have to fire up 3 before too long now
Another Civ III sound that will never be matched again was the sound of Knights fighting
The nostalgia of Civ III hit me too a couple months ago, and I've played a couple games since. Civ III had the best music and sound effects, and that's why wanted to play it again.
WackenOpenAir
Deity
Nostalgia. I so miss the civ2 advisors. 
What i liked about civ3 was how clear your objectives were. You'd start a game and you know your objective is to produce settlers ASAP. You'd make an excel file and try how you could push out the first settler the fastest (or how you'd get your settler factory online asap). The fastest solution you found from that excel was the best. The fastest you could crank out more settlers the better. Food was god, all else was secondary.
Now in civ5 i often have this feeling it all doesnt matter so much. Getting those settlers out faster may even be detrimental if you cant keep up the happiness. Growing your cities same thing. No use if you cant keep the pop happy, and even if you can, often you add citizens and they dont really add to the production, just able to make their own food. Now that is how it first seemed and was dissapointing. Now that i learned the game better i know that food is still god, its just that you have these added complications to keep your growth going. Its just not so obvious anymore at first sight. More balanced, more depth.
What i liked about civ3 was how clear your objectives were. You'd start a game and you know your objective is to produce settlers ASAP. You'd make an excel file and try how you could push out the first settler the fastest (or how you'd get your settler factory online asap). The fastest solution you found from that excel was the best. The fastest you could crank out more settlers the better. Food was god, all else was secondary.
Now in civ5 i often have this feeling it all doesnt matter so much. Getting those settlers out faster may even be detrimental if you cant keep up the happiness. Growing your cities same thing. No use if you cant keep the pop happy, and even if you can, often you add citizens and they dont really add to the production, just able to make their own food. Now that is how it first seemed and was dissapointing. Now that i learned the game better i know that food is still god, its just that you have these added complications to keep your growth going. Its just not so obvious anymore at first sight. More balanced, more depth.
Lexicus
Deity
rschissler said:
I still listen to the Civ III music on my iPod...does that make me weird?
My all-time favorite Civ music is actually a few tracks from Civ V--Genghis' themes are absolutely amazing.
The other one is Askia's peace theme, which has a sort of haunting quality to it. I spent a lot of time playing Askia just listening to his theme instead of managing my empire! Even when I'd play other civs, I'd love when Askia was in the game so I could leave his diplomacy window open for a while
With those two exceptions, I agree that Civ III had the best music. The ancient and medieval themes in particular are just too groovy.
Those were the best! I still remember the first time I checked in with my military advisor when I was on a good run...
I am struck by how petty everything is. Early typical tile yields being just two. Two! And several many turns increases that to three.
It really all balances out pretty well. And I am enjoying V so much more than III or IV. But my, everything is so much smaller...
noto2
Emperor
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2008
- Messages
- 1,715
Well.... the scale is smaller, as in fewer cities and units, but the decisions are more. Can you imagine trying to play 5 on the scale of 2? As in, empires with 100 cities, and armies in the hundreds? That does not sound like fun to me.
Back to nostalgia, though, I still listen to some Civ3 music. In 5, I'd say Spain is still my favourite theme music.
And, boy oh boy do I miss the Civ2 advisors. It's amazing how much little things like that added to the game
Back to nostalgia, though, I still listen to some Civ3 music. In 5, I'd say Spain is still my favourite theme music.
And, boy oh boy do I miss the Civ2 advisors. It's amazing how much little things like that added to the game
meatpardle
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2015
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- 169
Civ 6 should bring back the throne room.
plasmacannon
Emperor
I'm glad this thread was here.
I'm a long time Civ4 player and poster on this forum. I remember really not liking the changes made in Civ5 and refused to buy it when it came out. I forgot why. This post has reminded me of some of my likes and dislikes of the two games.
It's all over Facebook and other sites that Steam has discounted http://store.steampowered.com/sale/civilization/
Civ5 Complete Edition is -75% off to $12.49
Civ4 Complete Edition is -75% off to $7.49
I was trying to decide myself, if this might be the time to get it. However, for me, price isn't the only issue. If there hasn't been a mod yet to increase the 1UPT to some acceptable higher number, and Civ5 can not be played separately or LAN based, without having a Steam account, then for me, it's still too soon to buy. I don't have a Steam account and see no reason to have to register to anyone's website to play a game that I purchased. I don't have to for a Playstaion3 game. I remember now refusing to buy StarCraft2 for this reason as well. I have a LAN and multiplayer with a friend, usually vs. several AIs. None of this is online. Similar to any local game station platform.
To the OP, check out the Civ4 section here. There are a lot of mods made. I'd recommend trying Civ4 BTS with the latest patch for a while. If you start looking for variety, then check out the mods.
Realism Invictus is a great mod. Slave revolts actually produce slaves that fight back. It also creates more than the rock/paper/scissors style of combat by making recon units actually valuable and upgradable. There are enough changes that it feels like a different game, as if you operate solely on your base Civ4 game mastery, you could find your units wiped out fast. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=411799
Fall from Heaven II is a fantasy version of Civ4. From magic nodes, werewolves, treants, vampires, to magically improving the land around you, gaining random unique items for your unit, to fighting a Red Dragon. It has many fantasy elements already coded in. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=171398
Come back to the Civ4 and Civ5 forums as you seek insight. There are many knowledgeable people here and both are active forums.
I'm a long time Civ4 player and poster on this forum. I remember really not liking the changes made in Civ5 and refused to buy it when it came out. I forgot why. This post has reminded me of some of my likes and dislikes of the two games.
It's all over Facebook and other sites that Steam has discounted http://store.steampowered.com/sale/civilization/
Civ5 Complete Edition is -75% off to $12.49
Civ4 Complete Edition is -75% off to $7.49
I was trying to decide myself, if this might be the time to get it. However, for me, price isn't the only issue. If there hasn't been a mod yet to increase the 1UPT to some acceptable higher number, and Civ5 can not be played separately or LAN based, without having a Steam account, then for me, it's still too soon to buy. I don't have a Steam account and see no reason to have to register to anyone's website to play a game that I purchased. I don't have to for a Playstaion3 game. I remember now refusing to buy StarCraft2 for this reason as well. I have a LAN and multiplayer with a friend, usually vs. several AIs. None of this is online. Similar to any local game station platform.
To the OP, check out the Civ4 section here. There are a lot of mods made. I'd recommend trying Civ4 BTS with the latest patch for a while. If you start looking for variety, then check out the mods.
Realism Invictus is a great mod. Slave revolts actually produce slaves that fight back. It also creates more than the rock/paper/scissors style of combat by making recon units actually valuable and upgradable. There are enough changes that it feels like a different game, as if you operate solely on your base Civ4 game mastery, you could find your units wiped out fast. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=411799
Fall from Heaven II is a fantasy version of Civ4. From magic nodes, werewolves, treants, vampires, to magically improving the land around you, gaining random unique items for your unit, to fighting a Red Dragon. It has many fantasy elements already coded in. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=171398
Come back to the Civ4 and Civ5 forums as you seek insight. There are many knowledgeable people here and both are active forums.
unfairlane
Warlord
Civ5 was a big step in the wrong direction for Civ. Some improvements but a big step back when it comes to realism.
Mainly for 3 reasons:
1: Removing the axe-warriours simply kills any pre-gunpowder scenario.
2: Embarking units, what genious came up with this?
3: One unit pr. tile. No, this is not playable.
Mainly for 3 reasons:
1: Removing the axe-warriours simply kills any pre-gunpowder scenario.
2: Embarking units, what genious came up with this?
3: One unit pr. tile. No, this is not playable.
WackenOpenAir
Deity
whats you mean ? also about the 1 unit per tile ?
You guys should give it a try. I was so hardcore addicted to civ3 that i couldnt change. 10 years later i got over me prejudices and played civ5 anyway. And it is so much better really its unbelievable. Even though civ3 is the love of my life.
1: What do you mean with killing pre gunpowder scenario ? i see no problem with early warfare at all.
2: Embarking units i agree, this is imo a silly thing in civ5. Not only for realism reasons, also because it simply reduces the whole importance of water. There was nothing wrong with needing some planning to get your transport at the right place for moving your units across.
3: To say it bluntly, you have no idea what you are talking about and probably didnt really give the game a try. Its like a starcraft zerg player saying protoss sucks because you cant hatch eggs like the zerg can. They are different systems, that doesnt mean the one you are not yet used to is bad.
In the love of my life, civ3, warfare was simply bringing a stack of horsemen, attacking with them till you capture the city, hoping you have enough and hoping those who didnt kill a unit would retreat rather than die. Always in 1 turn because if you didnt succeed in 1 turn, chances for succes were rather low and it would become very costly. Super simple, super imbalanced.
In civ5 when attacking a city, you have 1 tank unit to take the hits from city defence while healing himself. You optionally add 1 unit that heals adjacent units to heal your tank. To actually take down the city, you add a handfull of ranged units. It takes a few turns so while you do this, you must take care and do something about newly incoming defenders. You can choose to come with only 2 ranged units and need 10 turns to bring the city down if your tank can survive that long, or you can bring 6 ranged units and need 2 turns. Or anything in between. More depth, more options, more planning, more balanced.
Really as i said before, its just change that everyone is afraid of. I know, i was too. More than anyone probably, seeing how deep i got myself invested into civ3.
Drakarska
Epic Dadness
@ Plasma C. There are mods that increase the 1UPT, and some of the TC's are actually enjoyable to play with this feature. However, Steam is still required in order to play the game ( something I detest as well).
Concerning the last three issues ( and I'm a BTS fanatic);
1) I see no problem changing from axes to other types of ancient units. RI mod for Civ IV does this, and all it takes is a bit of adjustment to your thinking.
2) Embarking. Bleh. Totally agree. As a retired navy vet who's one of many jobs ( I was an Ops Spec) was designing boat lanes, checking nav maps for appropriate beach access, making sure those marines didn't sink, etc, this one totally irritates me. And yes, I've heard all the arguments of streamlining, makes it easy, yada yada, but the strategic importance of a major beach head and the tactical planning of a successful amphib op has been reduced to nothing more than click and go here. The Swabbie in me is screaming in rage
3) Concerning 1UPT; I'm in the meh category, as the AI really is an idiot using it. However, since I play heavily modded ( Btw, Ackens mod is a definite step in the right direction) in order to make the game enjoyable for me to play, then I don't have an issue with it.
Concerning the last three issues ( and I'm a BTS fanatic);
1) I see no problem changing from axes to other types of ancient units. RI mod for Civ IV does this, and all it takes is a bit of adjustment to your thinking.
2) Embarking. Bleh. Totally agree. As a retired navy vet who's one of many jobs ( I was an Ops Spec) was designing boat lanes, checking nav maps for appropriate beach access, making sure those marines didn't sink, etc, this one totally irritates me. And yes, I've heard all the arguments of streamlining, makes it easy, yada yada, but the strategic importance of a major beach head and the tactical planning of a successful amphib op has been reduced to nothing more than click and go here. The Swabbie in me is screaming in rage
3) Concerning 1UPT; I'm in the meh category, as the AI really is an idiot using it. However, since I play heavily modded ( Btw, Ackens mod is a definite step in the right direction) in order to make the game enjoyable for me to play, then I don't have an issue with it.
plasmacannon
Emperor
1 Unit per tile. In Civ4 I know of any limit and yes that could become a problem if the AI has a stack headed between 2 of your cities and you only have time and the units to defend one. If stacks permit say 3-5 units then this would limit outrageous stack sizes and permits more than 1 UPT like a chess game.
One thing Civ4 Realism Invictus did was to place increasing limitations on your units performance when in larger stacks. So, for example, 3 stacks of 10 units would perform better than 1 stack of 30 units.
Embarking units, I forgot about those.
Perhaps limits on where units can embark/disembark would help. They probably can't already from mountains, but add hills too. Lowland tiles make the most sense for a Normandy style invasion.
In Civ4 Realism Invictus, one can chose a leader with the Expansive Trait which builds the varies transport units 50% faster if you want that advantage. That also means you can destroy your opponent's transports limiting them from assaulting your continent. Yours too have to be protected.
Hakan-i Cihan
Emperor
You have to realize that embarkation as it is, can be utilized much better by the AI than transports. Ok they are still weak in water and are not defending the embarked units that well, but in previous iterations I cannot remember that AI often transports units to attack civs on other continents/islands.
Verrucosus
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2002
- Messages
- 210
Europa Universalis IV has this tooltip for transport ships: "Everyone knows that soldiers cannot magically turn into boats"
Drakarska
Epic Dadness
Um, ok. Everyone is entitled to their opinion as to what "massive improvement" is. I agree to disagree with you bro
.Your right. The AI does a great job of utilizing its embarked units directly into the path of my frigates
. As to other iterations of civ, I've had numerous games to where the AI has surprised me with a well done amphib op. Dutch, Portugal, and Vikings are the sneakiest in BTS when it comes to that.
I'm not trying to start anything here. It's just a difference of opinion.
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