CIV Gold!
- Thread starter Wyz_sub10
- Start date
Dusty4prez
Krazy Kanuck
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2004
- Messages
- 413
Might I say that the civs you do add better not have UU's that replace the archer 
3 or 4 civs is enough.
3 or 4 civs is enough.Dusty4prez said:Might I say that the civs you do add better not have UU's that replace the archer
Well, most of those come from the original mods. We re-balanced some UUs but we didn't change them. When I look at the "to be added" list, I really don't know which ones among them have archer UUs. Of the 20 *proposed* additions for ver. 2.0, I see only 1 with an archer UU.
Funny you should say that, though. When I did my First Peoples mod, I purposely tried to spread the UUs around as much as possible without breaking the history of the civ.
When I did my Somalia mod, for instance, I replaces SAM Infantry with a UU because no one else did.
Shqype
Shqyptar
Wyz_sub10 said:
I'm afraid I beat you to it, my friend, a few months ago. Check out the thread for my Chechen mod (in my signature) and look at the screenshot of the Chechen UU
Falken65
Chieftain
It is great what you have done given the limitations of re-engineering leaderheads and coming up with new civs with appropriate UUs.
Do you have a request list of civilizations that people would like to see?
If so, I would like to make the case for the following 4:
Illyrians... basically you have this covered with the Albanian civ, however I don't think you actually have an Illyrian leader (please correct me if I'm wrong)
My Suggestion: Bardyllis (only bit of info on him from Wikipedia) - Initially a Dardanian coalman, he claimed the throne of the first Illyrian king, Sirra. He took back all Illyrian land from the Macedonians, defeating four Macedonian kings and was very popular with the Illyrian people when he divided up his spoils. Under his reign, the Illyrians nearly succeeded in destroying the kingdom of Macedon, but in 359 BC, Philip of Macedon conquered Illyria. Bardylis made peace with Philip before dying in 358 BC at the age of 90.
For defeating 4 Macedonian kings and reclaiming all Illyrian land from Macedonia and his generosity to the people, suggestions for traits would be Agressive and ?????? (not sure which trait reflects benevolence to the people). Favorite civic would either be representation or universal suffrage (representation would explain his popularity with the people by the extra happiness... universal suffrage could also, with the ability to complete projects with money and extra production).
Trojan: Could be tied into a Phoenician civlization or the present Carthage civilization (if I'm not mistaken, Carthage was a settlement/city started by Phoenicians).
From Wikipedia: The story of the Trojans first began in myth and legend. According to Greek mythology, the Trojans were the ancient citizens of the city of Troy in the Troad area, in the land of Asia Minor (or Little Asia, now Turkey). Troy was known for its riches, gained from port trade with east and west, fancy clothes, iron production, and massive defensive walls. The Trojan royal family was started by Electra and Zeus, the parents of Dardanus. Dardanus, the legendary founder of Troy, crossed over to Asia Minor from the island of Samothrace, where he met Teucer. Teucer was himself also a coloniser from Attica, and treated Dardanus with respect. Eventually Dardanus married Teucer's daughters, and founded Dardania (later ruled by Aeneas). Upon Dardanus' death, the Kingdom was passed to his grandson Tros, who called the people Trojans and the land Troad, after himself. Ilus, son of Tros, founded the city of Ilium (Troy) that he called after himself. Zeus gave Ilus the Palladium. Poseidon and Apollo built the walls and fortifications around Troy for Laomedon, son of Ilus the younger. When Laomedon refused to pay, Poseidon flooded the land and demanded the sacrifice of Hesione to a sea monster. Pestilence came and the sea monster snatched away the people of the plain.
Trojan rule in Asia Minor was replaced by the Herakleid dynasty in Sardis that ruled for 505 years until the time of Candaules. The Ionians, Cimmerians, Phrygians, Milesians of Sinope, and Lydians moved into Asia Minor. The Persians invaded in 546 BC.
Some famous Trojans are: Dardanus (founder of Troy), Laomedon, Ganymede, Priam, Paris, Hector, Teucer, Aesacus, Oenone, Telamon, Tithonus, Antigone, Memnon, Corythus, Aeneas, Brutus, and Elymus. Kapys, Boukolion, Aisakos, and Paris were Trojan princes who had naias wives.
(Request continued in next post):
Do you have a request list of civilizations that people would like to see?
If so, I would like to make the case for the following 4:
Illyrians... basically you have this covered with the Albanian civ, however I don't think you actually have an Illyrian leader (please correct me if I'm wrong)
My Suggestion: Bardyllis (only bit of info on him from Wikipedia) - Initially a Dardanian coalman, he claimed the throne of the first Illyrian king, Sirra. He took back all Illyrian land from the Macedonians, defeating four Macedonian kings and was very popular with the Illyrian people when he divided up his spoils. Under his reign, the Illyrians nearly succeeded in destroying the kingdom of Macedon, but in 359 BC, Philip of Macedon conquered Illyria. Bardylis made peace with Philip before dying in 358 BC at the age of 90.
For defeating 4 Macedonian kings and reclaiming all Illyrian land from Macedonia and his generosity to the people, suggestions for traits would be Agressive and ?????? (not sure which trait reflects benevolence to the people). Favorite civic would either be representation or universal suffrage (representation would explain his popularity with the people by the extra happiness... universal suffrage could also, with the ability to complete projects with money and extra production).
Trojan: Could be tied into a Phoenician civlization or the present Carthage civilization (if I'm not mistaken, Carthage was a settlement/city started by Phoenicians).
From Wikipedia: The story of the Trojans first began in myth and legend. According to Greek mythology, the Trojans were the ancient citizens of the city of Troy in the Troad area, in the land of Asia Minor (or Little Asia, now Turkey). Troy was known for its riches, gained from port trade with east and west, fancy clothes, iron production, and massive defensive walls. The Trojan royal family was started by Electra and Zeus, the parents of Dardanus. Dardanus, the legendary founder of Troy, crossed over to Asia Minor from the island of Samothrace, where he met Teucer. Teucer was himself also a coloniser from Attica, and treated Dardanus with respect. Eventually Dardanus married Teucer's daughters, and founded Dardania (later ruled by Aeneas). Upon Dardanus' death, the Kingdom was passed to his grandson Tros, who called the people Trojans and the land Troad, after himself. Ilus, son of Tros, founded the city of Ilium (Troy) that he called after himself. Zeus gave Ilus the Palladium. Poseidon and Apollo built the walls and fortifications around Troy for Laomedon, son of Ilus the younger. When Laomedon refused to pay, Poseidon flooded the land and demanded the sacrifice of Hesione to a sea monster. Pestilence came and the sea monster snatched away the people of the plain.
Trojan rule in Asia Minor was replaced by the Herakleid dynasty in Sardis that ruled for 505 years until the time of Candaules. The Ionians, Cimmerians, Phrygians, Milesians of Sinope, and Lydians moved into Asia Minor. The Persians invaded in 546 BC.
Some famous Trojans are: Dardanus (founder of Troy), Laomedon, Ganymede, Priam, Paris, Hector, Teucer, Aesacus, Oenone, Telamon, Tithonus, Antigone, Memnon, Corythus, Aeneas, Brutus, and Elymus. Kapys, Boukolion, Aisakos, and Paris were Trojan princes who had naias wives.
(Request continued in next post):
Falken65
Chieftain
Apaches: (from Wikipedia):
Apache is the collective name for several culturally related nations of Native Americans, aboriginal inhabitants of North America, who speak a Southern Athabaskan language. The modern term excludes the related Navajo people.
The Apaches formerly ranged over southeastern Arizona and north-western Mexico. The chief divisions of the Apaches were the Arivaipa, Chiricahua, Coyotero, Faraone Gileno, Llanero, Mescalero, Mimbreno, Mogollon, Naisha, Tchikun and Tchishi. They were a powerful and warlike tribe, constantly at enmity with the whites. The final surrender of the tribe took place in 1886, when the Chiricahuas, the division involved, were deported to Florida and Alabama, where they underwent military imprisonment. The U.S. Army, in their various confrontations, found them to be fierce warriors and skillful strategists. The Apaches are now in reservations in Arizona, New Mexico and Oklahoma, and number between 5,000 and 6,000.
Suggestion for Leaders: obviously Cochise and Geronimo
Minoans (once again, borrowing from Wikipedia):
The Minoans were a pre-Hellenic Bronze Age civilization in Crete in the Aegean Sea, flourishing from approximately 2600 to 1450 BC when their culture was superseded by the Mycenaean culture, which drew upon the Minoans. Based on depictions in Minoan art, Minoan culture is often characterized as a matrilinear society centered on goddess worship.
The Minoans were primarily a mercantile people engaged in overseas trade. Their culture, from ca 1700 BC onwards, shows a high degree of organization. Many historians and archaeologists believe that the Minoans were involved in the Bronze Age's important tin trade: tin, alloyed with copper apparently from Cyprus, was used in the manufacture of bronze. The decline of Minoan civilization and the decline in use of bronze tools in favor of superior iron ones seem to be correlated. The Minoan trade in saffron, which originated in the Aegean basin as a natural chromosome mutation, has left fewer material remains: a fresco of saffron-gatherers at Santorini is well-known. This inherited trade pre-dated Minoan civilization: a sense of its rewards may be gained by comparing its value to frankincense, or later, to pepper. Archaeologists tend to emphasize the more durable items of trade: ceramics, copper, and tin, and dramatic luxury finds of gold, and silver.
Objects of Minoan manufacture suggest there was a network of trade with mainland Greece (notably Mycenae), Cyprus, Syria, Anatolia, Egypt, Mesopotamia, and westward as far as the coast of Spain,
However, finding a leader would be tough... Minoan society was matriarchal and Wikipedia lists no leaders whose names would be associated with Minoan culture...
According to Jacquetta Hawkes, “The absence of … manifestations of the all-powerful male ruler that are so widespread at this time and in this stage of cultural development as to be almost universal, is one of the reasons for supposing that the occupants of Minoan thrones may have been queens” [3] “In the scenes from the seal stones, not only is the Goddess always the central figure, being served and honored in a variety of ways; she is sometimes shown seated on a throne. Supposing that a king did rule as consort of the Goddess, one would expect at the very least that at the royal court, which elsewhere, in Egypt and the Orient, was seen as the human reflection of the divine order, there would have been a throne for the queen as the counterpart of the Goddess. Yet in the sacred room at Knossos, and apparently also in the state apartment in the residential quarter, the throne stood single and alone.”[4]
Suggestion: It could be folded into a Mycenean civilization, the civ that predated Greece:
The Mycenaean period flourished between the arrival of the proto-Greeks in the Aegean around 1600 BC and the collapse of their Bronze-Age civilization around 1100 BC. The collapse is commonly attributed to the Dorian invasion, although some archaeologists and historians doubt that any such invasion took place. The major Mycenaean city-sites were Mycenae and Tiryns in the Argolid, Pylos in Messenia, Athens in Attica, Thebes and Orchomenos in Boeotia, and Iolkos in Thessaly. In Crete, Mycenaeans occupied the ruins of Knossos. In addition there were some sites of importance for cult, such as Lerna, typically in the form of house sanctuaries. Mycenaean settlement sites also appeared on islands in the Aegean, on the coast of Asia Minor, and then in Cyprus.
Apache is the collective name for several culturally related nations of Native Americans, aboriginal inhabitants of North America, who speak a Southern Athabaskan language. The modern term excludes the related Navajo people.
The Apaches formerly ranged over southeastern Arizona and north-western Mexico. The chief divisions of the Apaches were the Arivaipa, Chiricahua, Coyotero, Faraone Gileno, Llanero, Mescalero, Mimbreno, Mogollon, Naisha, Tchikun and Tchishi. They were a powerful and warlike tribe, constantly at enmity with the whites. The final surrender of the tribe took place in 1886, when the Chiricahuas, the division involved, were deported to Florida and Alabama, where they underwent military imprisonment. The U.S. Army, in their various confrontations, found them to be fierce warriors and skillful strategists. The Apaches are now in reservations in Arizona, New Mexico and Oklahoma, and number between 5,000 and 6,000.
Suggestion for Leaders: obviously Cochise and Geronimo
Minoans (once again, borrowing from Wikipedia):
The Minoans were a pre-Hellenic Bronze Age civilization in Crete in the Aegean Sea, flourishing from approximately 2600 to 1450 BC when their culture was superseded by the Mycenaean culture, which drew upon the Minoans. Based on depictions in Minoan art, Minoan culture is often characterized as a matrilinear society centered on goddess worship.
The Minoans were primarily a mercantile people engaged in overseas trade. Their culture, from ca 1700 BC onwards, shows a high degree of organization. Many historians and archaeologists believe that the Minoans were involved in the Bronze Age's important tin trade: tin, alloyed with copper apparently from Cyprus, was used in the manufacture of bronze. The decline of Minoan civilization and the decline in use of bronze tools in favor of superior iron ones seem to be correlated. The Minoan trade in saffron, which originated in the Aegean basin as a natural chromosome mutation, has left fewer material remains: a fresco of saffron-gatherers at Santorini is well-known. This inherited trade pre-dated Minoan civilization: a sense of its rewards may be gained by comparing its value to frankincense, or later, to pepper. Archaeologists tend to emphasize the more durable items of trade: ceramics, copper, and tin, and dramatic luxury finds of gold, and silver.
Objects of Minoan manufacture suggest there was a network of trade with mainland Greece (notably Mycenae), Cyprus, Syria, Anatolia, Egypt, Mesopotamia, and westward as far as the coast of Spain,
However, finding a leader would be tough... Minoan society was matriarchal and Wikipedia lists no leaders whose names would be associated with Minoan culture...
According to Jacquetta Hawkes, “The absence of … manifestations of the all-powerful male ruler that are so widespread at this time and in this stage of cultural development as to be almost universal, is one of the reasons for supposing that the occupants of Minoan thrones may have been queens” [3] “In the scenes from the seal stones, not only is the Goddess always the central figure, being served and honored in a variety of ways; she is sometimes shown seated on a throne. Supposing that a king did rule as consort of the Goddess, one would expect at the very least that at the royal court, which elsewhere, in Egypt and the Orient, was seen as the human reflection of the divine order, there would have been a throne for the queen as the counterpart of the Goddess. Yet in the sacred room at Knossos, and apparently also in the state apartment in the residential quarter, the throne stood single and alone.”[4]
Suggestion: It could be folded into a Mycenean civilization, the civ that predated Greece:
The Mycenaean period flourished between the arrival of the proto-Greeks in the Aegean around 1600 BC and the collapse of their Bronze-Age civilization around 1100 BC. The collapse is commonly attributed to the Dorian invasion, although some archaeologists and historians doubt that any such invasion took place. The major Mycenaean city-sites were Mycenae and Tiryns in the Argolid, Pylos in Messenia, Athens in Attica, Thebes and Orchomenos in Boeotia, and Iolkos in Thessaly. In Crete, Mycenaeans occupied the ruins of Knossos. In addition there were some sites of importance for cult, such as Lerna, typically in the form of house sanctuaries. Mycenaean settlement sites also appeared on islands in the Aegean, on the coast of Asia Minor, and then in Cyprus.
Shqype
Shqyptar
Wow, I'm impressed! Not only an Illyrian request, but also knowledge on them and one of their kings!Falken65 said:
Teuta was meant to be the Illyrian leader for the Albanian civ. Her husband Agron defeated the Greeks in many battles (and actually died after feasting such a victorious battle). When she inherited the throne the Illyrian navy was the strongest in the area, and she continued her assaults on the south. The Illyrian Lembi terrorized the Adriatic. But, the Greeks appealed to the Romans for help and Rome eventually intervened. Originally when I made the civilization, I chose Teuta for the Illyrians because she was a popular leader and because she was the best choice out of all the leaders I had a picture for (although it is only a statue). Plus, for CIV Gold, there was a request for more female leaders, so Teuta was the obvious choice.
Bardhyli was definitely one of the greatest Illyrian leaders, and under his reign the Illyrian kingdom reached its peak, combined with the lands of Illyria, Macedonia, and Mollosia/Epirus.
PS- regarding Troj, the legendary founder is named "Dardanus." Where do you think that name comes from? There are actually authors that go so far as to claim that the Dardanian Illyrians founded Troy, and that is from where the river Dardanelles gets its name. Just a FYI.
So, back on track; for my release I was thinking about Bardhyli as a second Illyrian leader, but I didn't have any image to represent him, so I decided against it. Since with animated leaderheads that's not an issue, perhaps for the second version of CIV Gold a replacement can be made.
Falken65 said:
Apaches are planned for a bit down the road, but they are included in a regional civ with the Navajo. Long story, short - for my First Peoples mod I was trying to get a comprehensive picture so I created regional civs as a "what if" approach.
Minoans is a civ I have absolutely thought about doing.
Hey!
I must admit that I don't like the way you have formed the Polish leaderhead >> Casimir III the Great!
I think he looks like a fagot!!! Try this link out and tell me about your opinion concerning this leaderhead. They were supposed to look like in the same way, but couldn't you make him as in this link? I don't like it!
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=144016
I must admit that I don't like the way you have formed the Polish leaderhead >> Casimir III the Great!
I think he looks like a fagot!!! Try this link out and tell me about your opinion concerning this leaderhead. They were supposed to look like in the same way, but couldn't you make him as in this link? I don't like it!
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=144016
Falken65
Chieftain
Poltjek said:
Using the term "fagot" can be interpreted as using hatespeech... try to use a more constructive word... I'm sure the moderators will correct it but using slurs isn't going to get you very far in life, socially or career-wise... just a piece of advice.
Sevo
Leaf on the Wind
Wyz_sub10 said:
I concur with regards to the language.
With regards to the leaderheads, I'm dying to actually model new leaderheads. I think that it's actually not going to be all that difficult to change the models; the hard part is importing/exporting the meshes from the NIF files. But people are regularly creating new units, so I think we're getting close. We've been kicking around another expansion with more civs, but I'd like to attempt some new modelling first. I'm pretty good with 3ds once I get going; the trick will be whether or not I can make use of the models.
I may give it a rip this week and see...wouldn't it be fantastic to have some actual new leaderheads instead of just reskins?
Falken65
Chieftain
Shqype said:Wow, I'm impressed! Not only an Illyrian request, but also knowledge on them and one of their kings!
Bardhyli was definitely one of the greatest Illyrian leaders, and under his reign the Illyrian kingdom reached its peak, combined with the lands of Illyria, Macedonia, and Mollosia/Epirus.
So, back on track; for my release I was thinking about Bardhyli as a second Illyrian leader, but I didn't have any image to represent him, so I decided against it. Since with animated leaderheads that's not an issue, perhaps for the second version of CIV Gold a replacement can be made.
Actually, it's going to make me seem very very old, but I played a game where Sid Meier drew some inspiration from for the first Civilization game
http://members.optusnet.com.au/dacoutts/Billabong/rcivil.htm
and here's a quote from the Wikipedia section on the board game Civilization:
"Sid Meier was a fan of this game and developed a computer game containing many of its elements. He named his game Civilization also, but gave a nod to the board game upon which he based his work (he included a flyer advertising the board game in early printings of his game). Meier's game was a huge success and gained a wide fan base."
Anywho, I was probably playing the board game about the time Sid was writing the original code for the first Civilization computer game. My favorite civilization in the game to start with were the Illyrians... I enjoyed starting in the game between the Roman and Cretan player as I usually lost the game in the long run but usually gave the Roman a sound thrashing. The starting civilizatons in the game were: Babylon, Egypt, Africa (probably Carthage, but referred to as the Africans in the game), Crete (probably Minoan, as the game tokens used a bull as the symbol for the civ), Rome, Assyria and last but not least, Illyria. I played the game maybe 5 or so times in my life, but I always considered it my duty to take the Illyrians and beat the snot out of the Romans... even though my heritage is English, Welsh, German and Swedish (with a bit of Native American blood (Choctaw)), I probably have a bit of Illyrian blood in me somewhere (the Celts were supposedly originally from the area of Greece/Italy... so it could be the Welsh in me). It probably doesn't hurt that my Celtic/English side of me loves beating up on the Romans and the perfect civilization for that was Illyria in the board game.
rockinroger
WoC Team Member
To the civ gold team, its a excellant mod and i enjoy playing it.Your hard work is appreciated.
Shqype
Shqyptar
Falken65 said:
Very, very interesting! Thanks for your post
Some Illyrians and Celts "mingled." Especially in the north, there were Celticized Illyrian tribes.
Have you ever tried playing The Ancient Mediterranean? It is a mod for CIV 4 that emulates the ancient Mediterranean, and the Illyrians are one the playable civilizations. I highly recommend you download the mod and play the scenario. It's really fun!
I would really appreciate it if you gave it a try and told me what experiences you had while playing as the Illyrians. Here is a link to discussion thread where you can download the mod:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=144716
Rockinroger, I'm glad you enjoy it. Do you have any suggestions to make it better?
Just out of curiosity, were you guys planning on adding things to alter the game play aside from adding new civs and their UU and such? I ask because in playing the game, Ive thought of some features I wouldnt mind seeing added, like military alliances and/or wartime options like surrendering to quickly end wars and such.
As for the leader heads, for the most part they are all very good. I think the only improvements needed would be to make the leaders look more like their real world counterparts. Since I dont know the process you guys use to make the new leader heads I cant offer any real suggestions on how to do that but when Warlords comes out youll have access to a bunch of new leader heads. So youll have more options when reskinning. One thing I was thinking about is the animations the leader heads do, like some seem more arrogant while others are more gracious, do you guys try to find an appropriate animation for each leader head, or are you stuck with certain animations for certain skins?
As for the leader heads, for the most part they are all very good. I think the only improvements needed would be to make the leaders look more like their real world counterparts. Since I dont know the process you guys use to make the new leader heads I cant offer any real suggestions on how to do that but when Warlords comes out youll have access to a bunch of new leader heads. So youll have more options when reskinning. One thing I was thinking about is the animations the leader heads do, like some seem more arrogant while others are more gracious, do you guys try to find an appropriate animation for each leader head, or are you stuck with certain animations for certain skins?
Wyz_sub10 said:
Hi..
I'm sorry about my "****** stuff"
I would like to apologize you for the swearword..
I just became furious and disappointed about seeing the Polish leaderhead Casimir III the Great. He was a brave man and in the CIV Gold pack he doesn't look like a brave man... You can see a portrait of him, and also a portrait of another Polish leader, John III Sobieski at theese sites:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=144016
http://img489.imageshack.us/img489/2351/poland011cc.jpg
I REALLY appreciate your work, but I must admit I became a little disapointed.. I'm sorry
I would like to add one more notice:
The second leaderhead; John III Sobieski. He had dark hair, and not gray/white hair as in your CIV Gold pack. Can you please think it over?
Poltjek
Sevo said:I concur with regards to the language.
With regards to the leaderheads, I'm dying to actually model new leaderheads. I think that it's actually not going to be all that difficult to change the models; the hard part is importing/exporting the meshes from the NIF files. But people are regularly creating new units, so I think we're getting close. We've been kicking around another expansion with more civs, but I'd like to attempt some new modelling first. I'm pretty good with 3ds once I get going; the trick will be whether or not I can make use of the models.
I may give it a rip this week and see...wouldn't it be fantastic to have some actual new leaderheads instead of just reskins?
Hey Sevo!
I'm sorry about my "****** stuff"
I would like to apologize you for the swearword..
I just became furious and disappointed about seeing the Polish leaderhead Casimir III the Great. He was a brave man and in the CIV Gold pack he doesn't look like a brave man... You can see a portrait of him, and also a portrait of another Polish leader, John III Sobieski at theese sites:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=144016
http://img489.imageshack.us/img489/2351/poland011cc.jpg
I REALLY appreciate your work, but I must admit I became a little disapointed.. I'm sorry
I would like to add one more notice:
The second leaderhead; John III Sobieski. He had dark hair, and not gray/white hair as in your CIV Gold pack. Can you please think it over?
Poltjek
Sevo
Leaf on the Wind
Poltjek said:
No prob on the coarseness...we're just looking out for one another.
Anyway, with regards to the leaders, we did our best to make unique, historically semi-close portrayals where possible, but the existing models just don't cut it for everyone out there. In some cases I had to be creative to make things work so that leaders didn't look the same. We are planning a new version of the mod (2.0); it's in the very early stages but Wyz_sub10 is starting to set things in motion. Anyway, we're looking at other options for leaderheads and we can certainly look at re-doing the Polish leaders.
Everyone out there is sensitive to the leaders from their own countries...it's hard to put enough time and attention into thirty-odd leaderheads to get them all perfect and still release a mod in a reasonable timespan. But we're receptive to the community and we'll see what we can do.
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