Commanding Officers and Broader Alignment
- Thread starter Grey Fox
- Start date
This sounds way cool. I can't wait to try it. Especially the broader alignments bit is great. I would like if alignment was influenced also by your actions in the game (as in, good civ attacking another good civ without "Casus Belli", that is without negative relations due to previous war, close borders, whatever) should slide you toward evil--more so if they're also following the same religion. Also, I would love if you could give the population of cities alignment. The default would be tied to culture--if 100% of a 6 pop city is culture:Elohim and the Elohim are at +511, then all of the population should be good, and if a pop 10 city has 60% Elohim (who are currently good) and 40% Grigori (who are currently neutral), then 6 pop should be good and 4 pop neutral. This would become interesting for happiness's sake: Protect the meek would only make neutral and good population happy (and evil population unhappy?), good population could have stronger war weariness (or, let's be crazy, context-dependent war weariness: if you wage a war of aggression against another good country, your good pop might become very unhappy, while your evil pop might become really happy). Additionally there could be peace weariness from evil pop: say you have really low relations with a good country next door and they're perceived as weak (power graph wise), and yet you do not go to war with them or anyone--your evil pop could view you as weak and become unruly. Pop alignment would slowly start to change when your realm alignment changes.
But maybe this is too complex. I don't know. I think I'd love it.
But maybe this is too complex. I don't know. I think I'd love it.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
Those sound like very good ideas. Why don't you propose them in the [MODCOMP]Broader Alignment thread of this sub-forum? The Broader Alignment modmod is being made first, and will be available alone. There has already been one release, and he is getting close to a second one.
Having war and peace change alignment is a great idea. I'm pretty sure it is possible, even if you have to resort to random events with python requirements to do it.
Having citizens have their own alignments sounds very interesting, but I'm not sure how feasible it is.
Having war and peace change alignment is a great idea. I'm pretty sure it is possible, even if you have to resort to random events with python requirements to do it.
Having citizens have their own alignments sounds very interesting, but I'm not sure how feasible it is.
xienwolf
Deity
Very interesting ideas indeed. It would be nice for all diplomacy to have some change of Alignment. making demands causing you to go Evil, gifting free stuff making you good. Taking a trade at a loss, makes you good, pushing to make a trade in your favor, evil. That one could be a bit hard though, and if you allowed the changes to happen for just reccomending a trade (+1 Evil for even suggesting he give you 5 Cities for 1 
) then exploitable to make yourself Evil at any point you want to.
If the population were to have alignment of their own, I would go a step further and say that if you are +512 (purest good) & 100% Culture in the city, then all population is Good. But if you were only +360 something (mid good) & 100% culture in the city, then half the population is Neutral, and half is good. (this would of course require far too much processing to be worthwhile though, unless a great many events or other mechanics were tied to Population Alignment.)
) then exploitable to make yourself Evil at any point you want to.If the population were to have alignment of their own, I would go a step further and say that if you are +512 (purest good) & 100% Culture in the city, then all population is Good. But if you were only +360 something (mid good) & 100% culture in the city, then half the population is Neutral, and half is good. (this would of course require far too much processing to be worthwhile though, unless a great many events or other mechanics were tied to Population Alignment.)
Bad Player
Deity
If it's any help as an idea the game Europa Universalis (III I think I played as the demo) allowed you to hire advisers (in various fields) who were IIRC randomly offered throughout the game. Each advisor cost different amounts and gave different bonuses. Perhaps you could use this mechanic for hiring military advisers.
I just wanted to say that I might release a first version of this mod this weekend.
Here is some updates:
Here is some updates:
- Commanders can get Strategic and Tactical experience. You get this experience from combat with other Empires, and not the barbarian civilization.
- Strategic Experience goes towards the Commanders Strategic Level. Each time you gain a level in strategy, you can promote one of your traits. This is not your commander unit's level.
- Tactical experience is divided into 7 subcategories;
- Shock Tactics
- Formation Tactics
- Cover Tactics
- Fortification Tactics
- Siege Tactics
- Harrasment Tactics, and
- Guerilla Tactics
- When you gain a level in one of these tactics, the Drill promotions gain a bonus. For example: If you have level 1 in Shock Tactics, Drill I will provide +10% vs Melee units, a long with its normal bonuses.
- Each Commander have 4 Traits. They start with 1 of them at level 1, and the other three at level 0. At level 0 they don't provide any bonuses, but are available for promotions when you level up. Traits can give the commanding unit passive or active abilities, or give you empire wide bonuses.
- Each trait have 4 levels, 0 to 3. So 3 actual levels.
- Organized trait can switch commander without getting any anarchy. The same is true with the civic Military State. The current time between commander changes is 50 turns on normal speed. I might add some wonders that reduce this timer, to make it possible to switch in and out of commanders if you aim for that possibility.
- Experience and Unit promotions/levels are saved when you switch commander, but you can only use the Commander Unit when you are using that commander.
Most traits are unique to the commanders, some commanders share some traits. But basically, the traits are basically either passive or active abilities of the commanding unit, or nationwide bonuses. Each step of the trait usually boosts the bonus of the trait in some way.
Anyways, a question to you all. To avoid confusion, should the Commanding Officers be renamed Generals, or Field Marshals or something like that instead of Commanders?
Anyways, a question to you all. To avoid confusion, should the Commanding Officers be renamed Generals, or Field Marshals or something like that instead of Commanders?
A suggestion: You can mix traits among commanders, you don't need every trait to be unique. So Nievell the Saviour's call to glory can also be a trait of Valin or Sphener, Siege Warfare of Bambur... The same way that leader traits are distributed among leaders.
MayNilad Man
King
*poke*
Is this modmod still alive?
Is this modmod still alive?
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
Well, I believe that Grey Fox has said that he doesn't intend to do anymore work on the Broader Alignments part (although Xienwolf and Vehem will, as it is part of FF). I don't know if he is still working on Commanding Officers, but he might be. From what I hear, he only has internet access for a short time every couple months, so you may not get a response anytime soon. If he is working on it, it will probably be a lot better when he comes back.
Vehem
Modmod Monkey
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2005
- Messages
- 3,219
He did mention it last time I saw him in #erebus (couple of weeks ago) - so I don't think it's over yet...
I cast rezzurection, not to be a douche, but because it sounds like a neat idea.
Well, I would recommend reading over the previous posts unless u are quite familiar with them. Now, I will say the rest of my post in the spirit of the thread, jumping right into a suggestion.
- I think their should be a commander slot, and a religious commander slot. And, agnostic civs, like the Grigori, would have 2 slots for military commanders.
- The Illians I think should still have the Religious commander slot, instead of a second military one, being the Three winter priests as switchable Relig commanders. Agantios, Rurios, and Dumanios.
Another option would simply be for the Illians to have three commander slots at all times, but only allow these commanders. THis would leave the Illians to be uncustomizable, but allow all three priests at a time, while having them be a commander, and maintain the Static feel of the Ice Sphere. Also, they would only gain this "commander" power upon re-establishment of the White Hand (the ritual that spawns the priests) instead of starting off with one and being able to gain a hero later.
Also, if each religious hero is connected as a religious commander, most likely a nation could only field one religious hero at a time.
Well, I suppose if having 3 commanders for the Illians is too much power if everyone else just gets a possible 2 ... you could make the third slot for other civs be the "trophy" commander, like Orthus, Barbatos, Acheron, ect. OR a domestic or economic "administrator" instead of a troop commander, Which would make the Illians the only nation with three -unit- subcommanders, while every one else has max of 2 unit commanders.
On the other hand, if you went with the trophy slot option, some commanders should probably not represent themselves. Ie Acheron. I would suggest a half-dragon Dragon disciple, that comes with a building in your capital called dragon shrine, which allows such shrine to be build in other cities, which enables the building of specialized orcish Dragon cult units. Or even just specialized units of your race that can upgrade to half dragons at tier 4. Each special unit would probably have a limit of one or two here, and I understand I am getting out of hand perhaps.
I think another Idea to implement the Acheron commander is by having a 4 limit on the Half Dragon disciples (which can fly and breath fire, I would imagine) only buildable by dragon hoard. And having Acheron as a trophy commander places the Dragon Hoard in your Capital. If this version has cult of the dragon initialised, the Hoard should probably have a high chance of giving any unit the cult of the dragon promo or religion.
In any event, Dragon disciples are generally arcane casters that gain physical attributes of the Dragon in order to become less vulnerable, perhaps even a tank caster, although their are probably easier ways to be tank casters, but these people are obsessed with dragons, or have some draconic blood already, ectetera (eventually becoming half dragon at the later stages). So I would imagine them starting with (hopefully the Dragon promotoin), but if not, then at least Earth II and Fire II, and maybe Air II just to represent their magical nature. Stone skin is definitley a must have, and all half dragon disciples have some fire breathing abilities. Nothing too powerful in ways of strength, but definitely stronger than archmages ... (well, I think there should be two phases) the first phase is stronger than mages, and only Fire II (unstead of meteor from dragon) and the second phase is stronger than an archmage with dragon race and flying. Both would get stoneskin and earth II of course, as well as arcane unitclass and channeling I and II, with the second phase getting channeling III as well. Honestly I see the second phase should be unlocked by Theology, to represent the religious (maybe obsessive?) nature of the cult, even though they are actually arcane casters. In any event, Theology feels more true for these cult leaders, as opposed to strength of will. It also gives intersting strategies to someone that focuses on a religious path with the Dragon subcommander.
Im not sure why Acheron would follow a mortal, but same goes with Orthus and Barbatos, and they are "trophies" after all. Maybe an option to dissallow trophy commanders
But expanding on that thought, it would be nice to see a dragon lead an empire, and not the Kuriotate kind, but more of an Obsessive, Megalomaniac, Charismatic cult leader kind of like Khad, but a dragon, probably Chromatic dragon, green or red. A dragon that wants power and highly enjoys having followers, in addition to being charismatic and headstrong. Probably a character that might not really *want* to bring back the gods war, but has a strong habit of bending and breaking as many rules as possible, in order to make erebus is own personal playground. I would guess he would have a gladitorial type building for Pit fights, similar to the Balseraph arena. Only these are usually more pride oriented battles between followers of the cult, putting on a life or death display for their Draconic leader. It may bet too similar to the Doviello duel system, but I think it must require the Arena/ Pit fight building in the city, and be a fight between two units with Cult of the Dragon religion. Probably give a small (or large) bonus to the winner. Probably depending on how good the leader is, But I digress, I beilieve I have gotten far off topic already and may or may not be wasting your time at the moment. However, suffice it to say that I definitly like dragons, and would like to find some way for just a couple more of them to enter erebus.
Well, I would recommend reading over the previous posts unless u are quite familiar with them. Now, I will say the rest of my post in the spirit of the thread, jumping right into a suggestion.
- I think their should be a commander slot, and a religious commander slot. And, agnostic civs, like the Grigori, would have 2 slots for military commanders.
- The Illians I think should still have the Religious commander slot, instead of a second military one, being the Three winter priests as switchable Relig commanders. Agantios, Rurios, and Dumanios.
Another option would simply be for the Illians to have three commander slots at all times, but only allow these commanders. THis would leave the Illians to be uncustomizable, but allow all three priests at a time, while having them be a commander, and maintain the Static feel of the Ice Sphere. Also, they would only gain this "commander" power upon re-establishment of the White Hand (the ritual that spawns the priests) instead of starting off with one and being able to gain a hero later.
Also, if each religious hero is connected as a religious commander, most likely a nation could only field one religious hero at a time.
Well, I suppose if having 3 commanders for the Illians is too much power if everyone else just gets a possible 2 ... you could make the third slot for other civs be the "trophy" commander, like Orthus, Barbatos, Acheron, ect. OR a domestic or economic "administrator" instead of a troop commander, Which would make the Illians the only nation with three -unit- subcommanders, while every one else has max of 2 unit commanders.
On the other hand, if you went with the trophy slot option, some commanders should probably not represent themselves. Ie Acheron. I would suggest a half-dragon Dragon disciple, that comes with a building in your capital called dragon shrine, which allows such shrine to be build in other cities, which enables the building of specialized orcish Dragon cult units. Or even just specialized units of your race that can upgrade to half dragons at tier 4. Each special unit would probably have a limit of one or two here, and I understand I am getting out of hand perhaps.
I think another Idea to implement the Acheron commander is by having a 4 limit on the Half Dragon disciples (which can fly and breath fire, I would imagine) only buildable by dragon hoard. And having Acheron as a trophy commander places the Dragon Hoard in your Capital. If this version has cult of the dragon initialised, the Hoard should probably have a high chance of giving any unit the cult of the dragon promo or religion.
In any event, Dragon disciples are generally arcane casters that gain physical attributes of the Dragon in order to become less vulnerable, perhaps even a tank caster, although their are probably easier ways to be tank casters, but these people are obsessed with dragons, or have some draconic blood already, ectetera (eventually becoming half dragon at the later stages). So I would imagine them starting with (hopefully the Dragon promotoin), but if not, then at least Earth II and Fire II, and maybe Air II just to represent their magical nature. Stone skin is definitley a must have, and all half dragon disciples have some fire breathing abilities. Nothing too powerful in ways of strength, but definitely stronger than archmages ... (well, I think there should be two phases) the first phase is stronger than mages, and only Fire II (unstead of meteor from dragon) and the second phase is stronger than an archmage with dragon race and flying. Both would get stoneskin and earth II of course, as well as arcane unitclass and channeling I and II, with the second phase getting channeling III as well. Honestly I see the second phase should be unlocked by Theology, to represent the religious (maybe obsessive?) nature of the cult, even though they are actually arcane casters. In any event, Theology feels more true for these cult leaders, as opposed to strength of will. It also gives intersting strategies to someone that focuses on a religious path with the Dragon subcommander.
Im not sure why Acheron would follow a mortal, but same goes with Orthus and Barbatos, and they are "trophies" after all. Maybe an option to dissallow trophy commanders
But expanding on that thought, it would be nice to see a dragon lead an empire, and not the Kuriotate kind, but more of an Obsessive, Megalomaniac, Charismatic cult leader kind of like Khad, but a dragon, probably Chromatic dragon, green or red. A dragon that wants power and highly enjoys having followers, in addition to being charismatic and headstrong. Probably a character that might not really *want* to bring back the gods war, but has a strong habit of bending and breaking as many rules as possible, in order to make erebus is own personal playground. I would guess he would have a gladitorial type building for Pit fights, similar to the Balseraph arena. Only these are usually more pride oriented battles between followers of the cult, putting on a life or death display for their Draconic leader. It may bet too similar to the Doviello duel system, but I think it must require the Arena/ Pit fight building in the city, and be a fight between two units with Cult of the Dragon religion. Probably give a small (or large) bonus to the winner. Probably depending on how good the leader is, But I digress, I beilieve I have gotten far off topic already and may or may not be wasting your time at the moment. However, suffice it to say that I definitly like dragons, and would like to find some way for just a couple more of them to enter erebus.
