ROTM - Rise of the Mongols

two views of the playtest, yet no feedback?

That Flying Tiger graphic will work (though in RL the paddlewheels were hidden, so that it frightened the enemy as it had no visible means of movement).

So you're using some of the stuff I added? Though I really would like the Yangtze to be navigable. That way the Mongols can't just plow straight down into the Song territory, they will have to try and outflank the river. It would also give the ships a use, especially if you gave 'em bombard.

And I assume all civs are playable? Or perhaps just the major ones (Mongols, the Two Chinas, Japan, Korea, India, Khwarzhim, Mamlukes, Crusaders, Russia)?

And China did use firelancers at this time... and thunder crash bombs. Those would be a lovely addition (Make them a one range cruise missile).

I've started to play, and some suggestions very early in (like first war in)

Hsia-hsia campaign overveiw

Hsia-hsia are a bit to powerful, IMHO (or maybe it is just my bad playing skills). Firstly, make the Keshiks more durable (+hitpoints). Secondly, make the Hsia much weaker. Their outlying cities should have barely any defenses, it was their capital alone that held out for long. Also, game turns should be in "seasons", it will give it a very medieval air, and be a bit more realistic.. I think. I conquered the Hsia four turns in, and the Mongols acheived that in one, after a few raids that barely touched them. I'm not sure how long it will take to crush China under my thumb, but I guess much longer than it should. Basically, have the Hsia have perhaps two or one pikemen in every city but the capital. That should have maybe five vet pikes, or more regulars. After all, with barely a third of my army I managed to take it in one turn, where in RL it took almost the entire horde, and with ingenuity (flooding the city out) they made it fall.

Also, Mongols should have at least two more armies, I think. Subadai, perhaps the best general in history, and whichever the other really major commander of Genghis was.. I can't remember.

Wonderful! ¡Maravilloso! Merveilleux ! Wunderbar! Meraviglioso! Fantastisch! Maravilhoso! Замечательный! Vidunderlig! 好极了！

Thank you!

I wasn't sure how powerful to make civs. So I'll cut back on the Hsi-Hsia. As for China, I've done some playtesting myself. Do not underestimate the Chin. Commit MOST OF your forces to the initial invasion. Once you have Peking, the rest tends to fall into place.

I'll add two more armies and add hitpoints.

Yeah, it was easy enough, but it still made a dent in the horde. don't underpower them, just don't overpower them, either. It is a delicate balance. Basically everthing but the capital should be a pushover (but give them some offensive units, too. The mongols destoryed their offensive army easily in RL, but it was still there. If the Mongols had been stupid, it might have done serious damage). Oh, yeah, and make the Mongols have infinite unit support, give them something like a "Tribal" government to do that, give everyone else a monarchy, and have everyone but the mongols prefer monarchy, the mongols prefer Tribal.

Either put the "Tribal" government in a flavor tech everyone else doesn't want (and is expensive to research) or an "era none" tech. Preferred governments don't determine which gov a civ uses (although I'm willing to bet Amenhotep already knew that ).

I would give you some feedback, but I've given up trying to get Civ 3 to work (all it does is turn the computer screen off but for some reason, the music still plays)

Hmm... Strange. Have you gone to the technical support forum? You may find the answer to your problem...

I had the same problem ages ago, I just reinstalled Civ and then it worked. That isn't working this time. At the Tech Forum anyway, I was greeted with silence. I'll pretty much work only from screenshots now.

Crap... well, lemme see what I can do.

Wait... Did you just reinstall civ3 or the expansion packs? Because you may want to reinstall all your civ games including PTW and C3C...

North King- How did you fare against the Chin?

Haven't played that far... Think I'm about to tryr, though.

Good luck.

I find it best if you just are utterly unrelenting. Assault the border cities with ferocity, and when Peking falls so shall the Chin dynasty.

Well, I surprised myself. It was either that I focused my entire horde on them, everthing but I think 5 garrison Keshiks, or that they were underpowered. I think it was the former, because IRL the Mongols fought the Khara Khitai at the same time or earlier.

Overveiw of the Chin

It was in this campaign that I noticed a few things: the complete lack of dedicated infantry for the Mongols, the fact that all cities are size one(!), the excellence of a hit-and run strategy, and the greatness of armies of armies.

As in RL, the Keshiks work best if you use hit and run tactics. If you are playing against the Chin, for example, kill one of their longbowmen, retreat, and wait for the rest to come after you. I never lost a single Keshik defensively, and only I think two offensively, which is realistic, because of the Mongol strategy of retreat. A false withdrawl also works in Civ3, as it should... I just noticed this now because you need four movement to do it properly.

The China are easy enough, all you really have to do is outflank them. If you focus your attacks on the northern frontier, then switch to attacking the southern frontier, they will send their longbows back and forth and in effect, do nothing.

Also, did I mention an army with a 7 attack unit ROCKS!?

Anyway, now the sugestions:

1. The chin are underpowered, however, I think that this will need probably no solving. Al you really need to do is give them bigger cities, which I assume will come later.

2. Combat is coming along really well. The Mongol signature tactics actually work! (A rarity in Civ 3 at best)

3. The Mongols are very stretched by this time; they have to use fifteen or so Keshiks to hold the China and Hsia down. This is realistic, actually, since they actually were quite stretched, but I would give the Mongols the tech fuedalism, and with that include a unit: "Mongol Foot Archer" Stats: 3/3/1 cost: 20 sheilds, maybe, given that they are going to have a hard time building anything with the resisting Chin cities. It should require nothing, but you should give them maybe two in the beginning, garrisoning their two home cities so we can use all the Keshiks to attack and rampage.

All in all, it is coming along quite nicely. Good job on the scenario!

Oh, and just for fun, screenshot of the conquest of Chin (next I think is Khara Khitai, their horsemen riding around my empire are quite irritating):

WOOT![dance]

Nice going!

Suggestions have been duely noted. Yes, like I said, I did miss some superficial details like city size. That'll change in the beta test. Then to gamma test, then release.

Keep going!

Oh yes, and I forgot about locked war. Who should be in locked war? Crusaders/Mamelukes? Latin Empire/Byzantines?

Exactly what I was thinking. Crusaders/Mamlukes, Latin Empire/Byzantines... Which means that you might want to give still more defensive units to the Crusaders, because they are going to be on the defensive.

Rename Peking Ta-Tu. And if you didn't add it, add Shang-Tu on the grasslands 3 sqaures northeast of Kalgan. It also looks like Khwarazm is a little bit underpowered at the moment.

Why rename Peking? Wasn't it called Peking? And how does Kwarzam look underpowered. We don't even have a screen of them yet.

Mongoloid Cow, I thought Shang-tu was founded by Kubalai Khan?

You should add the Great Wall of China as a wall of fortresses in the Chin territory. It should not be garrisoned too heavily as the Mongols didn't have much of a problem with the Wall.
The Mongols themselves didn't use infantry, but they did imploy infantry mercenaries mostly from China.