[MOD] More Naval AI

Since 1.0 was just released, should I assume that it is designed to go with patch "o" of FFH? When new official patches come out (if there are any more), do they generally change different files, so I can just update the "naval AI" version of FFH, or do I need to wait for a newer version of your mod to incorporate the changes?

Your changes/improvements look great, looking forward to giving it a try this week!

clearbeard said:

Since 1.0 was just released, should I assume that it is designed to go with patch "o" of FFH? When new official patches come out (if there are any more), do they generally change different files, so I can just update the "naval AI" version of FFH, or do I need to wait for a newer version of your mod to incorporate the changes?

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Yes, this mod can be installed on top of Patch O. I replace the DLL as well as the entire python and XML directories, so unless there are art file changes, you can really install it on top of almost any version.

Generally I grab the source files of any new patch from Kael, compare it to the previous official FFH version and incorporate changes as needed. In the case of Patch O, it was all just bug fixes which I already added to my version, so I haven't actually taken anything directly from patch O. A little confusing, but in short, my mod is designed to be compatible with and replace the latest official FFH patch.

Has anyone tried this mod multiplayer? My friend and I just tried to get a game going, and it consistently crashes to desktop at the end of turn 1. Install order was 0.41d (full), then patch o, then more naval AI for both of us, and the game runs fine for both of us single player, with the same game options selected. Any ideas?

clearbeard said:

Has anyone tried this mod multiplayer?My friend and I just tried to get a game going, and it consistently crashes to desktop at the end of turn 1.

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Can you load up the turn 0 autosave and play it single player?

Tholal said:

Can you load up the turn 0 autosave and play it single player?

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Didn't know that was possible. Thought the 2 save types weren't interchangable. Anyway, we started a BUG game later, so the broken turn 0 autosave is gone.

Anyway, I think I found the source of the problem: victory conditions. I usually play with time, domination, and cultural conditions turned off. Evidently when I tested single player yesterday, they defaulted back to on, so it worked.

Checking them individually, it appears that time is the issue. Turning off the other two still works. I double checked in a base FFH game, and turning off the time victory works there (in case my PC is wonky for some reason), so looks like it's a genuine bug in your mod. Behavior doesn't seem to change with different map types or sizes. I have no idea why, but there you go!

clearbeard said:

Anyway, I think I found the source of the problem: victory conditions. I usually play with time, domination, and cultural conditions turned off. Evidently when I tested single player yesterday, they defaulted back to on, so it worked.

Checking them individually, it appears that time is the issue. Turning off the other two still works. I double checked in a base FFH game, and turning off the time victory works there (in case my PC is wonky for some reason), so looks like it's a genuine bug in your mod. Behavior doesn't seem to change with different map types or sizes. I have no idea why, but there you go!

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OK. Thanks for the bug report! I'll look into it. I think I know what's causing that issue.

clearbeard said:

Anyway, I think I found the source of the problem: victory conditions.

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OK. Think I fixed it. try this DLL. Just unzip it and copy it into your assets folder for the More Naval AI install (replacing the current DLL). This build also happens to include fixes for two other crashes that I ran across earlier this week.

Version 1.1 released. Links to the installer and the source code have been updated in the first post.

Version 1.1

• Fixed several crash bugs
• Taught Loki to use his Entertain spell
• Kuriotates can now upgrade their settlements if they start losing their cities
• First pass at changing how the AI decides which mana types to build
• Minor tweaks to AI for city production and civic choice

Finally got around to playing a game (as Calabim) with your mod. Naval AI seems much improved (from it's previously non-existent state, anyway), but I have some issues:

1. Galleys are too powerful for the early game. I like the ability to enter ocean with optics, but I'd put movement and cargo both at 2 (down from 3 and 4, respectively). Enough to send a settler and escort to another continent, but not allow for huge amphibious landings so early.

2. Caravels, being out of the upgrade trees, are next to worthless now, yet the AI wastes time and resources building them, even after they can build better ships. Not sure what to suggest as a better solution.

3. Galleons upgrading to Queen of the Line is a mistake, IMO. Queens are, to my play method, inferior ships. The +2 combat (7-->9) and +2 cargo (8-->10) pale in comparison to their -2 speed (5-->3). Transports have no business in combat anyway, and once you are able to build Queens, you can't build Galleons at all.

4. Cargo capacities seem high across the board for the transport line. I'd recommend:

Galley: 2 --> Caravel: 3 --> Galleon: 4

Queen of the Line: 6 or 8 (fresh build, not an upgrade, or increase speed to match Galleon)

Trireme --> Frigate --> Man 'O War

5. Not sure if they're intended or not, but I'm seeing some unusual barbarian units, including freaks, various religious disciples, lightbringers, and lunatics randomly wandering around.

clearbeard said:

Finally got around to playing a game (as Calabim) with your mod. Naval AI seems much improved (from it's previously non-existent state, anyway), but I have some issues:

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Thanks for the feedback!

I think that 3 cargo space is the minimum for settler ships. The AI likes to have a settler, worker and a defender when it launches a naval settling operation.

My thought for Caravels was that they would be used for exploration and missionary missions, not as main transports.

I made the ship stat changes back before I incorporated Better AI's improved naval movement. Those changes to ship stats certainly could use a review. I'll make some time during this coming week to sit down with all the stats and figure out a plan of action and then post it here for further feedback.

5. Not sure if they're intended or not, but I'm seeing some unusual barbarian units, including freaks, various religious disciples, lightbringers, and lunatics randomly wandering around.

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Yes, This is a frustrating bug that I have not been able to figure out despite several attempts. It's normally just Freaks and Lightbringers though. The Lunatics are most likely from an AI that has adopted Octopus Overlords and built an Asylum.

@Tholal:

Forgive the possibly ignorant question, but could the unusual barbarian units be in some way connected to some of what you merged in from Wild Mana? I only recently tried Wild Mana and was surprised by the real weird variety of barbarian units, so maybe there's some connection there.

I'm not a programmer, so I could be completely off base, of course, but just thought I'd suggest the possibility.

I always get a crash on the current or next turn with the attached save.

Note: I installed "More Naval AI" to a backup of my FfH2 folder, and renamed it "FfH2MNA" .. so Civ is looking for that when loading the save ...

Arralen said:

Note: I installed "More Naval AI" to a backup of my FfH2 folder, and renamed it "FfH2MNA" .. so Civ is looking for that when loading the save ...

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I don't understand how to load the game with your described setup.

Edit: I figured out how to load your save and replicated the crash. Currently building a debug version to try and track down the source. Thanks!

Edit2: I found the source of the crash but not the reason. It's Loki. If you delete him, you can continue playing. I'm still looking into why he's causing this issue for your game.

Edit3: Figured out the problem. I wasn't setting pBestPlot to NULL in the LokiMove function and in your game, since the Balseraphs were so isolated and Loki was created very early, this was causing a crash. Fix is in the attached DLL and will be included with the next release. Thanks for the bug report!

I've assembled a chart showing data for naval units in this mod compared to FFH Patch O and included some changes I'm thinking of incorporating after reading Clearbeard's suggestions.

Proposed changes are highlighted in dark orange. In short, bombard rates are being reduced, Galleys are getting a nerf, Galleons are being changed to be a Jack-of-all-trades ship, and Caravels are adjusted to be more useful for exploration and missionary duties.

I haven't yet tested these proposals, but I would love to hear any feedback or thoughts on these changes.

Looking over your chart, I like all of your suggested updates! A minor personal preference would be to keep galleons as move 5 (with the combat reduction you suggest), but I like fast ships.

One other thing I noticed in my game that I forgot to mention earlier is that arcane barges do not appear to currently require fire mana, as the mod notes suggest. I may be mis-remembering, but I'm 90% sure I didn't have any fire mana when I could first build them.

After you incorporate whatever changes you decide on, I'd be happy to give it another play though when the bugs of Civ5 annoy me too much again.

clearbeard said:

One other thing I noticed in my game that I forgot to mention earlier is that arcane barges do not appear to currently require fire mana, as the mod notes suggest. I may be mis-remembering, but I'm 90% sure I didn't have any fire mana when I could first build them.

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I noticed that as well. Apparently I never implemented that change (or it got lost somewhere along the way). It will be in the next build.

I really like the look of this mod, but am currently hooked on Orbis. I'll no doubt give it a try sometime before too long regardless. Have your changes been merged over to any of the other mods?

Version 1.2 released. (doesn't break saved games from previous version)

Includes the following updates:

• Volcano event has a chance to start fires and smoke in nearby lands (taken from Flavour mod)
• Fix for potential crash in LokiMove
• Fix for InquisitionMove
• Fix to keep non-elf terraformers from casting Bloom on top of bonuses
• Various tweaks to stats for Naval units (see this post for details)

mcwill123 said:

Have your changes been merged over to any of the other mods?

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Not that I'm aware of. Denev used a few lines of my code, and he also merged in the latest Better AI code into his mod, but as far as I know, the three major modmods are all doing their own thing in regards to Navy and AI tweaks.

Tholal said:

... the three major modmods are all doing their own thing in regards to Navy and AI tweaks.

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This is a shame, because AFAIK I won't play vanilla FFH2 ever again. Playing without any BUG feature is just too much of a chore.