Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
If we have the SVN version do we need to download it? Or is the the same (or better) as v14?
C2C SVN Changelog
- Thread starter Dancing Hoskuld
- Start date
If we have the SVN version do we need to download it? Or is the the same (or better) as v14?
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
As of right now, they are the same, but as soon as one thing changes in the SVN, the better way is through the SVN, but beware the SVN is twice the size of the normal MODPACK.
EDIT: I just upload three different FPK to the SVN and they are HUGE so beware, it will take awhile. Still trying to figure this DARN Black Terrain problem out
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
So can we still upload/download to the SVN or not?
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
Dont put anything there till i get the new HEAD modpack in thx.
EDIT: PLS do an export when its ready, i will EDIT this post again when it is, ok, thx.
EDIT EDIT: OK after 434 minutes 10 seconds, the NEW SVN is up and running, i hope. Rev 177.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
Removed ALL old UU upgrades.
Remember to always upgrade before committing to the SVN, just a reminder is all, thx.
One other thing, when committing to SVN, pls TRY and NOT to use someone else's modules, in YOUR module (another words no cross modulating), that way a person cant take out parts they dont want.
Remember to always upgrade before committing to the SVN, just a reminder is all, thx.
One other thing, when committing to SVN, pls TRY and NOT to use someone else's modules, in YOUR module (another words no cross modulating), that way a person cant take out parts they dont want.
@All contributors - if you are making wide-ranging chnages and locally you do it by deleting and recreating a bunch of stuff (/eye SO - like everything!) please do NOT commit the delete to SVN. That is if your local process is:
1) Delete one or more folders
2) Fix and replace with a new version
Then ONLY do the SVN commit after (2), NOT in between (1) and (2). A commit after (2) will leave you with the same SVN end state, but by commiting between (1) and (2) you lose (easy access to) all the history of changes that have gone before AND you wind up with the final commit claiming EVERYTHING is changed, even though many of the files you put back were actually the same as the ones you deleted. This makes it very hard to see what has ACTUALLY changed for those of us (probably several) that had outstanding changes locally not yet committed.
1) Delete one or more folders
2) Fix and replace with a new version
Then ONLY do the SVN commit after (2), NOT in between (1) and (2). A commit after (2) will leave you with the same SVN end state, but by commiting between (1) and (2) you lose (easy access to) all the history of changes that have gone before AND you wind up with the final commit claiming EVERYTHING is changed, even though many of the files you put back were actually the same as the ones you deleted. This makes it very hard to see what has ACTUALLY changed for those of us (probably several) that had outstanding changes locally not yet committed.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Ok I update the SVN with my new "culture system". Remember its still being balanced and tweaked so PLEASE give feed back if some seem either to easy or to hard to achieve. The system works where each civilization is given a unique building called "Native Culture", depending upon which civ depends upon what you get such as Japan and China get Native Culture (Asian) while England and Rome get Native Culture (European). These in turn give out a Free culture building to every city in your empire.
The Embassy building are now called just "Culture (Name of Civ)" such as Culture (Zulu) or Culture (Aztec). These have varisu requirements ranging from which Native Culture you have to what religion you have, what civic you have in place, what building you have built or what other cultures you have already. Note this is where I want the feedback since some have lots of requirements while other have not so much. It was very hard to summarize an entire culture with requirements.
All these buildings are normal, except for Culture (Neanderthal) which is still a Great Wonder. Thus more than one civ can have the same culture. In the future I will be making special Great Wonders that will give you the embassy building in every city if you can build 3 embassies in 3 cities.
Note that with the current system you can only make whatever your native culture is, however if you select "assimilation" as a game choice then you can then make the unique building of another type of civ and in turn make their set of culture buildings. For example Spain taking over the Aztecs opens up all the building that require Culture (American) as well as their given Culture (European).
As you can see it is one of the most complex and diverse systems I have done so far. I worked really hard on it so please be nice and give some feedback about it.
You can see the culture requirements here (as well as the tech tree).
The Embassy building are now called just "Culture (Name of Civ)" such as Culture (Zulu) or Culture (Aztec). These have varisu requirements ranging from which Native Culture you have to what religion you have, what civic you have in place, what building you have built or what other cultures you have already. Note this is where I want the feedback since some have lots of requirements while other have not so much. It was very hard to summarize an entire culture with requirements.
All these buildings are normal, except for Culture (Neanderthal) which is still a Great Wonder. Thus more than one civ can have the same culture. In the future I will be making special Great Wonders that will give you the embassy building in every city if you can build 3 embassies in 3 cities.
Note that with the current system you can only make whatever your native culture is, however if you select "assimilation" as a game choice then you can then make the unique building of another type of civ and in turn make their set of culture buildings. For example Spain taking over the Aztecs opens up all the building that require Culture (American) as well as their given Culture (European).
As you can see it is one of the most complex and diverse systems I have done so far. I worked really hard on it so please be nice and give some feedback about it.
You can see the culture requirements here (as well as the tech tree).
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@strategyonly
When i started a new game I got 1 band of Homo Sapiens, 1 Clubman and 1 Nulla Nulla! It should be a stone thrower and the Nulla Nulla should only be available with an Aborigine Embassy. Please fix so it will not come up as a free unit at the start.
When i started a new game I got 1 band of Homo Sapiens, 1 Clubman and 1 Nulla Nulla! It should be a stone thrower and the Nulla Nulla should only be available with an Aborigine Embassy. Please fix so it will not come up as a free unit at the start.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
I knew i forgot something, i changed it in 'my" game but forgot to put it in the SVN, sorry about that.
Looking over your copy of CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml, looks like you used the OLD one and NOT the new one, cause all the CIV4UnitArtStyleTypeInfos,xml are messed up.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Do you have the new one? If so could you update the SVN with it so i can put back in all the new unique buildings? Right now all i have are my modified version and the old version.
Sounds awesome. Obviously you did it without XML capability changes in the end - are there any that would make it smoother that you'd like now you've had chance to work through it?
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
Updated the FPK, with new Light_Mech, changed Nulla Nulla info, changed Olmec to Eagle Warrior, changed Holkan to spearthrower, more when i think of it . . .
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Do I still need to fix this? It looked like it already got fixed.
EDIT: I Tweaked the Embassy buildings again. They should be easier to obtain, but not too easy. Please give feedback!
EDIT2: I went a tweaked a bunch of units. Hopefully they will be more balanced.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
Speaking of SVN, i need some SVN Beta Testers, that are willing to test this mod in all kinds of areas and ways. And give HONEST opinions, no matter good or bad.
Might be more or less only the current SVN users that read this thread - suggest you post this request more widely, and have people that are interested start reading here (I'll keep posting here when I make SVN changes)
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
Already did that, thx
EDIT: Make sure you read ALL of the HUD Utility before using it.
Just pushed the start of some very ambitious AI changes (and a few bug fixes) to SVN. This will need considerable play testing (I've been testing for the past 3 days, but it needs in-depth long-term checking for odd side-effects).
In this rev:
The two big things here are the new underpinnings in the AI. They are not used much yet (mostly for the worker escort changes) but I'll be making lot more use of them in future updates. The two new mechanisms are, in a bit more detail:
Vicinity danger monitoring with history
Basically before this change the AIs concept of danger was 'can I see a nearby enemy unit'. This fell down quite badly to repeated sneak attacks and similar tactics (e.g. - keep an assassin just out of sight and dart in and kill, then withdraw every couple of turns).
I have added a new system to enhance this rather simplistic view of danger (currently they are operating side by side and I am only using the new one in limitted roles, but the new one is more runtime efficient too, so I'll likely migrate many existing cases to it over time). In the new system each plot has a 'danger score'. Each visible enemy adds danger to its plot in proportion to its combat strength, and also to the nearby plots (it decays with distance over a range of 2 each side currently). The score is retained from turn to turn and gradually decays over time (it reduces by one third each turn). Hence a permanently visible enemy unit will add its danger score each turn, but when it leaves the danger will decay slowly (so a unit passing through counts less, but the recent activity leaves a trace). For the mathematically inclined, this is convergement and assymptotically reaches 3*one turn contribution for a permananently stationary unit.
Having a unit killed also adds danger proportional to the strength of the killed unit (plus a constant since we want workers who die mysteriously [to invisible units in other words] to add to the local danger). Similarly having an improvement pillaged.
As far as visible units are concerned, enemies count full value. Non-allies count 1/3 value in territory other than your own, and nothing in your own territory. This is so that non-declared-enemy troop buildups on your borders don't pass un-noticed. The reason non-allies that are not declared enemies don't count in your own territory is that their very presence implies a treaty, and we don't want to consider our treaty partners as dangers really. Note that units with hidden nationality always count as enemies.
Inter-unit AI cooperation
The AI runs extremely autonomously for each unit, without any real 'communication' or centralised planning. In some ways this makes things easier, but it makes it hard to add cooperative behaviour, or to implement more centrally planned strategies. I have added a contract-broking mechanism to address this. This new mechanism allows units with nothing very critical to do to advertise themsleves as available for work, and other units to request units for activities they need help with.
The main initial use of both of the above systems is to arrange for worker escorting in dangerous areas. When a worker decides it wants to go make some improvement (or build some route, or whatever) it checks the local danger level, and if it's above a certain threshold, it uses the brokerage system to ask for a defensive unit to escort it. The city counter units who don't have immediate high priority activities (i.e. - are not needed for what the AI considers a reasonable acceptable defense in their current city) are the ones that currently advertise themselves as potentially available for work, and hence the ones that wind up doing the escorting.
The worker escort is just a fairly crude early example of using the new systems and will undergo further tweaking (e.g. - currently any old defensive unit (and just one) is considered a suitable escort regardles of the danger level, which obviously isn't perfect). However, in my testing it certainly makes sneak attack pillage-and-run strategies against the AI (asuming reasonably similar tech level so it's not trying to defend against assassins with stone axemen) much less effective, because the AI starts to 'learn' and increases its defense in the areas you are attacking.
Modified city vicinity defensive posture
The final significant change in this revision is to the AI's defensive posture around cities. Apart from a minimal defense (plus whatever might be needed for military happiness) it will now tend to place city counter units in the area around the city rather than leave them all stacked in it. The way it selects plots to fortify on is quite crude currently, and just causes it to occupy good defensive terrain nearby, with a weighting towards areas where there is known danger.
I plan to tweak this in several ways in future:
In this rev:
- Fixed the iCityLimit problem with active civics if its changed in your assets since the save
- Fixed the erroneous ejection of units from other players' territory for no obvious (to the player) reason
- Fixed the negative beakers issue (though it only happens when the XML is imposing over-large adjustment values, which I believe has already been corrected)
- Added new UNITAI type UNITAI_PILLAGE_COUNTER. The trained-dogs line of units now has this as its default AI. The thief has it as a usable AI. Basically this will cause the AI to try to ensure it has better coverage for seeing invisible units, though I'm still tweaking it
- Added new underpinning mechanism to allow more cooperation between AI unit stacks (see below)
- Added new underpinning mechanism to allow the AI to monitor danger with a history (see below)
- Modified the AI's city-area defensive posture
- Used the unit cooperation features and the danger monitoring to cause AI workers to be escorted in dangerous areas
The two big things here are the new underpinnings in the AI. They are not used much yet (mostly for the worker escort changes) but I'll be making lot more use of them in future updates. The two new mechanisms are, in a bit more detail:
Vicinity danger monitoring with history
Basically before this change the AIs concept of danger was 'can I see a nearby enemy unit'. This fell down quite badly to repeated sneak attacks and similar tactics (e.g. - keep an assassin just out of sight and dart in and kill, then withdraw every couple of turns).
I have added a new system to enhance this rather simplistic view of danger (currently they are operating side by side and I am only using the new one in limitted roles, but the new one is more runtime efficient too, so I'll likely migrate many existing cases to it over time). In the new system each plot has a 'danger score'. Each visible enemy adds danger to its plot in proportion to its combat strength, and also to the nearby plots (it decays with distance over a range of 2 each side currently). The score is retained from turn to turn and gradually decays over time (it reduces by one third each turn). Hence a permanently visible enemy unit will add its danger score each turn, but when it leaves the danger will decay slowly (so a unit passing through counts less, but the recent activity leaves a trace). For the mathematically inclined, this is convergement and assymptotically reaches 3*one turn contribution for a permananently stationary unit.
Having a unit killed also adds danger proportional to the strength of the killed unit (plus a constant since we want workers who die mysteriously [to invisible units in other words] to add to the local danger). Similarly having an improvement pillaged.
As far as visible units are concerned, enemies count full value. Non-allies count 1/3 value in territory other than your own, and nothing in your own territory. This is so that non-declared-enemy troop buildups on your borders don't pass un-noticed. The reason non-allies that are not declared enemies don't count in your own territory is that their very presence implies a treaty, and we don't want to consider our treaty partners as dangers really. Note that units with hidden nationality always count as enemies.
Inter-unit AI cooperation
The AI runs extremely autonomously for each unit, without any real 'communication' or centralised planning. In some ways this makes things easier, but it makes it hard to add cooperative behaviour, or to implement more centrally planned strategies. I have added a contract-broking mechanism to address this. This new mechanism allows units with nothing very critical to do to advertise themsleves as available for work, and other units to request units for activities they need help with.
The main initial use of both of the above systems is to arrange for worker escorting in dangerous areas. When a worker decides it wants to go make some improvement (or build some route, or whatever) it checks the local danger level, and if it's above a certain threshold, it uses the brokerage system to ask for a defensive unit to escort it. The city counter units who don't have immediate high priority activities (i.e. - are not needed for what the AI considers a reasonable acceptable defense in their current city) are the ones that currently advertise themselves as potentially available for work, and hence the ones that wind up doing the escorting.
The worker escort is just a fairly crude early example of using the new systems and will undergo further tweaking (e.g. - currently any old defensive unit (and just one) is considered a suitable escort regardles of the danger level, which obviously isn't perfect). However, in my testing it certainly makes sneak attack pillage-and-run strategies against the AI (asuming reasonably similar tech level so it's not trying to defend against assassins with stone axemen) much less effective, because the AI starts to 'learn' and increases its defense in the areas you are attacking.
Modified city vicinity defensive posture
The final significant change in this revision is to the AI's defensive posture around cities. Apart from a minimal defense (plus whatever might be needed for military happiness) it will now tend to place city counter units in the area around the city rather than leave them all stacked in it. The way it selects plots to fortify on is quite crude currently, and just causes it to occupy good defensive terrain nearby, with a weighting towards areas where there is known danger.
I plan to tweak this in several ways in future:
- Bias in the direction of your borders, so units will tend to station near borders rather then to the interior
- Bias away from coasts
- Occupy strategic plots with high priority. In this context strategic means things like choke points in archipeligos and so on
The what?
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
WOW. . .
I really like the underpinning, didnt know you could actually do this, This is a MAJOR breakthrough....
Vicinity danger monitoring with history, cant say enough how this is needed.
Inter-unit AI cooperation, workers checking for danger areas etc, was badly needed.
Modified city vicinity defensive posture, this is definitely needed and needed badly, thx.
Plus you have more tweaking and things to do, just fantastic. . . . .
Its a utility i have added in the game if you want to change your common Blue borders to any color you can image, now its so simple from Lemon Merchant, its fantastic, cause every now and then i just like to make change to the HUD Blue gets stale after awhile. But again read the ReadMe before using. See attached
For ALL concerned:
Do you'll like the EXTRA LH's i have put ingame, or do you suggest i just use them as ADD-ONs
because of the size of the game currently.ie:
Game currently is "around" 1.2 GB
without LH's "around" 975 MB
