C2C - Transhuman Era

@Vokarya

The stuff that was decided upon way back with Accent of Mankind was that a solar system would get the following minimum features ...

1. 1 Sol like sun
2. Earth-like planet to start.
3. 1 Moon like ours.
4. 1 Mars-like Planet.
5. An asteroid Belt.
6. A gas giant.

Beyond that it could be any configuration. The reasoning is the gas giant helps shield the planet from asteroids from its huge gravity. The moon is there to provide the tides and seasons that help make it Earth-like. The The Yellow Star (aka the Sun) is to keep the entire solar system similar to the one we have. The asteroid belt is just there for the techs. Mars is there so you at least have a non-moon to explore.

Beyond that we could have some sort of randomization. Which we were going to try out way before multi-maps since everything would have just been data on a menu. With multi-maps it will be up to how much we can do. If worse comes to worse we may need to come up with a preset solar system. Which is not too bad.

Vokarya said:

I've been looking over the new techs (just to update my tech trees, in-depth analysis to come later) and I was wondering - are we assuming that the arrangement of planets is the same as the Sol System? Some of the new techs are planet-specific, and if we're not committed to Earth, why should we be committed to Sol? I think we need to assume an Earth-LIKE planet, and a Sol-LIKE star, but I don't know if anything beyond that should be assumed.

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Well this my assumption..isnt Caveman2cosmos the history of Humans on Earth, starting from the Prehistoric Era to the galactic travel?


1. C2C is about human history.
2. Humans live on Earth.
3. All the cultures and wonders are from Earth.
4. In 1969 Humans on Earth went to the Moon.
5. Later Humans sent unmanned probes to Mars.
6. Commercial spaceflight was developed and private NASA was just a consleur.
7. Humans send another Mars probe in 2014.
8. Humans send probes to investigate the asteroid belt in more detail.
9. Humans send probes to investigate Jupiter's moon. they land on Europa.
10.Humans manned or unmanned explore Saturn and its moon Titan.
11. Humans starts colonizing the Moon.
12.Orbital megastructures are created above Earth.
13. Humans send manned mission to Mars and have a small colony on Phobos(moon).
14. Ion Engine developed..lunar megastructures created.
15. Orbital cities in inner solar system are developed in a WEB like fashion.
16. Mars colonization begins.
17. Asteroid economy begins. small outposts on the largest ones are created.
18. Europa gets manned exploration.

and so on..

I thought c2c was human history on earth. Hydro made it clear when he told me to not create any alien techs..humans will evolve to different species.


I can always rename
Jupiter Probe exploration = Gas Giants Probe Exploration
Saturn system exploration = Gas Giants Manned Exploration

Hydromancerx said:

@Vokarya

The stuff that was decided upon way back with Accent of Mankind was that a solar system would get the following minimum features ...

1. 1 Sol like sun
2. Earth-like planet to start.
3. 1 Moon like ours.
4. 1 Mars-like Planet.
5. An asteroid Belt.
6. A gas giant.

Beyond that it could be any configuration. The reasoning is the gas giant helps shield the planet from asteroids from its huge gravity. The moon is there to provide the tides and seasons that help make it Earth-like. The The Yellow Star (aka the Sun) is to keep the entire solar system similar to the one we have. The asteroid belt is just there for the techs. Mars is there so you at least have a non-moon to explore.

Beyond that we could have some sort of randomization. Which we were going to try out way before multi-maps since everything would have just been data on a menu. With multi-maps it will be up to how much we can do. If worse comes to worse we may need to come up with a preset solar system. Which is not too bad.

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OK, that's understandable. I get the reasons for everything except having to have an entire asteroid belt. Could you have asteroid-related techs without a belt, using either solitary wandering asteroids ("Earth-grazers") or Lagrangian-point asteroids?

MrAzure said:

Well this my assumption..isnt Caveman2cosmos the history of Humans on Earth, starting from the Prehistoric Era to the galactic travel?

I can always rename
Jupiter Probe exploration = Gas Giants Probe Exploration
Saturn system exploration = Gas Giants Manned Exploration

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I think Gas Giant Probes and Gas Giant Exploration would work better. I don't think the technology would be different from gas giant to gas giant.

Vokarya said:

I think Gas Giant Probes and Gas Giant Exploration would work better. I don't think the technology would be different from gas giant to gas giant.

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Alright ill do that..the first can be about probes and the second one manned missions.

By the way i need to rewrite certain pedias, they are not final.

I Might rename Horizontal Skyscrapers to Exotic Architecture..





Also i will not be at my modding computer until Monday afternoon.

by the way, i am planning on adding alot of fictional wonders later, (find a high quality wallpaer and make a story out of it.. is the code for that an XML or a python?

MrAzure said:

Alright ill do that..the first can be about probes and the second one manned missions.

By the way i need to rewrite certain pedias, they are not final.

I Might rename Horizontal Skyscrapers to Exotic Architecture..

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Exotic Architecture is a much better name. I was thinking "if they're horizontal... they're probably not skyscrapers anymore." I have a few other naming critiques, but I'll put everything together and send it as a PM.

MrAzure said:

by the way, i am planning on adding alot of fictional wonders later, (find a high quality wallpaer and make a story out of it.. is the code for that an XML or a python?

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Wonders are almost all XML. Python should be used sparingly -- Koshling has said that certain changes made with Python do not survive modifier recalculations (such as when you update the SVN). So far, I have only used Python for three purposes:

• Via Appia and Golden Spike automatic road-building. This is safe from recalculation because the roads/railroads are not recalculated.
• The +3 reactions from building Field of the Cloth of Gold. This might be lost on a recalculation; I have not checked.
• Triggering the +1 reaction event from Blarney Castle. This is safe because the Python only controls whether the event occurs or not; the event effects are all XML and so they will survive a recalculation.

If you want to do something that is a straight numeric change, I would suggest putting it in the Tag Requests Thread. I requested a tag for <GlobalExtraBuildingCommerces> to allow some of my Wonders to boost the gold, science, culture, or espionage of other buildings. Normally, you can do this with technologies or events, but not with other buildings.

Or, wait and see what new capabilities AIAndy's Expression System gives you once he adds it.

@MrAzure

You have Lunar Colonization tech covering up Advanced Environmental Systems tech.

EDIT: Some more techs in the wrong spot ...

- Antimatter Rocket
- Trans-Tangible Neutrino Accelerators
- Endogenous Euclidean Propulsion

They were not moved it looks like and thus come much too early in their placement on the tree.

Also Ion Propulsion is much too late on the tree. I suspect it has a different tag than its name which is throwing you off.

@MrAzure

1. Could you please chnage the name of "Jupiter Probe Exploration" to "Jovian Exploration". This makes it more genetic sounding since there can be Jovian planets that are not Jupiter (Ex. Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune).

2. "Saturn System Exploration" is redundant. If you can explore one gas giant and its moons you should be able to explore any of them. Please remove this tech.

MrAzure said:

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Where is this image originally from?

MrAzure said:

by the way, i am planning on adding alot of fictional wonders later, (find a high quality wallpaer and make a story out of it.. is the code for that an XML or a python?

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Do you mean Wonders generally? They are just buildings, so in a basic sense 'XML'. However, if you want them to do something exotic you may well need some Python too, it all depends on what you want them to do (pure XML can do all the usual building stuff, add buildings in all cities, all same-landmass cities, or all trade-connected cities, but that's about it). In principal, I think buildings (and this would only ever be sensible on a wonder I think) can also do property manipulation on the player rather than just the city, but I don't think that's used anywhere yet)

Koshling said:

Where is this image originally from?

Do you mean Wonders generally? They are just buildings, so in a basic sense 'XML'. However, if you want them to do something exotic you may well need some Python too, it all depends on what you want them to do (pure XML can do all the usual building stuff, add buildings in all cities, all same-landmass cities, or all trade-connected cities, but that's about it). In principal, I think buildings (and this would only ever be sensible on a wonder I think) can also do property manipulation on the player rather than just the city, but I don't think that's used anywhere yet)

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Yes i meant Wonders generally. That image is orignally from Desktop Nexus.
Its a marine city (Las Aquas i think).
I was thinking of using wallpaper like this to make wonders.
Here is a larger picture of it..


you can get a larger picture here(download botton is at right).
http://architecture.desktopnexus.com/wallpaper/274233/

Next Batch of Techs ill be Adding


Computronium Crystals =crystal transistors.


Binary S.I.N = Binary Sinister and Infectious Nanites

New Superweapon. If used massive drop in relations. This nanites have no AI, they are just custom biological viruses fused with nanotransistors and computer code. very expensive weapon to create.Laser Sanitation has some antidotes that cost 4x as much as the weapons. Shielding TECH provides some defenses. Later techs provide the other antidotes. Later in the tech tree Binary D.A.R.K (Diabolical Automated and Regenerative Kinesinanites [kinesi means moving] superweapons can be researched. The most powerful weapon in D.A.R.K is Animaletum [annihilation of life]

Sinister Nanites

-Anger Nanite (mass rage)
-Hate Nanite (mass hate of government)
-Paranoia Nanite (mass hysteria)
-Charm Nanite (people love the person that launched the S.I.N)

Infectious Nanites
-Kytos
LOW
(The Krytos virus was a deadly and highly contagious virus that only attacked non-human biological species, primary used as a bioterror message. It could spread via a number of avenues, including by water supplies and by air. The virus often killed its host in less than two weeks, resulting in a painful death.)

-Bloodfire
Medium
( Its genetically created vampirism, people infected must seek uninfected blood to survive, and extreme aggression and slow loss of identity occurs. Blood transfusions can keep victims satisfied, but the virus is very contagious)


-Autocannibal
High
( genetically-engineered recombinant virus made from the nuclear polyhedrosis virus, the rhinovirus, and smallpox. It causes nightmares, fever, chills, runny nose, encephalitis (brain swelling), , followed by a long period of aggression and autocannibalism until death.

-Deathwalker
Highest
( mutating disease that often starts with pain and sensitivity in the victims nipples, then forms a temporary tumor in the brain as it feeds upon the genetic material of the brain cells, sapping away the victims critical thinking skills and intelligence, once it reaches its critical density, the tumor disbands into the bloodstream, the virus going into a form of hibernation, leaving its victim in a state of near absolute uselessness. Once the virus detects that it has entered a new host due to differences in protein markers of the victims cells, the process begins again.)

-Andromeda
Extreme
( It erodes the vessel walls of the circulatory system, causing death by either triggering the body's coagulation response (resulting in the entire system clotting in a few seconds), or by cerebral hematomas (accompanied by dementia) if clotting is prevented. Victims hallucinate about Stars and galaxies,It evolves at a rapid rate, is spread by airborne transmission, and is extremely contagious)

-Genesisnova
Astronomical
-This virus is a form of necrotizing fasciitis that causes all biological matter in an area to break down into its component parts, releasing toxic, flammable gas that ignites with sunlight in a 10 foot explosion. This virus is them most dangerous created by man, and victims have to be killed by mechs, resulting in mass exterminations. The person that uses this will usually cause most nations to go War with it and labeled as Evil and not Human.

MrAzure said:

Next Batch of Techs ill be Adding


Computronium Crystals =crystal transistors.

Spoiler :

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Okay, I have two problems with the techs on your grid. First and foremost is the Positronic Brain. What possible use would there be for it and how would you prevent it from blowing everything to high hell? Positrons are nothing special - they are electrons in an antimatter universe and nothing more. Yes Star Trek was huge on positrons, but as science and testing showed later on, positrons are quite literally nothing special other than being a normal subatomic particle the size of an electron but with a positive charge. They can't traverse the universe instantly or even be used as an efficient way of communicating between two mechanical entities.

My second quarrel is with your Computronium Crystals. Sure it sounds dandy, but that sounds to me like a subsection of the Optronics tech later on. Optronics is simply the use of photons in computational machinery as a signalling medium rather than electrons. This is to say that your Computronium Crystals would be discovered from the Optronics tech if what you say is true in that these crystals are a medium of photon-based transistors.

Now looking back at the Positronic Brain, perhaps you'd be better with an Optronic Brain. Since photon-based computational machinery would theoretically be capable of instantaneously* producing results, this neurological system would be quite mind-blowing. No pun intended.

*Instantaneous in the sense that information moving from point A to point B is moving at the fastest speed possible.

Civ Fuehrer said:

Okay, I have two problems with the techs on your grid. First and foremost is the Positronic Brain. What possible use would there be for it and how would you prevent it from blowing everything to high hell? Positrons are nothing special - they are electrons in an antimatter universe and nothing more. Yes Star Trek was huge on positrons, but as science and testing showed later on, positrons are quite literally nothing special other than being a normal subatomic particle the size of an electron but with a positive charge. They can't traverse the universe instantly or even be used as an efficient way of communicating between two mechanical entities.

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Well im trying to include an artifcical super-intelligent thing like Viki from IRobot, and its refered as a positronic brain . It doesnt have a conscious, but over time its code evolves..and decades later may have a conscious. Later the TECH is a prereq for Binary subConscious(which is a requirement for Personal Robots).

Buildings include Automated Positronic Core (runs the city)... Defense Brain (like in EagleEye movie), and a wonder that has a holographic archive of all history.


Link to video.



skip to 1:30

Link to video.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positronic_brain

A positronic brain is a fictional technological device, originally conceived by science fiction writer Isaac Asimov.[1][2] Its role is to serve as a central computer for a robot, and, in some unspecified way, to provide it with a form of consciousness recognizable to humans.


Asimov remained vague about the technical details except to assert that the brain's substructure was formed from an alloy of platinum and iridium. It was stated to be very vulnerable to radiation, and apparently a type of volatile memory (since robots in storage required a power source keeping their brains "alive"). The focus of Asimov's stories was directed more towards the software of robots (such as the Three Laws of Robotics) than the hardware in which it was implemented, although it is stated in his stories that to create a positronic brain without the Three Laws it would have been necessary to spend years redesigning the brain itself.

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My second quarrel is with your Computronium Crystals. Sure it sounds dandy, but that sounds to me like a subsection of the Optronics tech later on. Optronics is simply the use of photons in computational machinery as a signalling medium rather than electrons. This is to say that your Computronium Crystals would be discovered from the Optronics tech if what you say is true in that these crystals are a medium of photon-based transistors.

Now looking back at the Positronic Brain, perhaps you'd be better with an Optronic Brain. Since photon-based computational machinery would theoretically be capable of instantaneously* producing results, this neurological system would be quite mind-blowing. No pun intended.

*Instantaneous in the sense that information moving from point A to point B is moving at the fastest speed possible.

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Actually thats a very good idea, but Computronuim Crystals actually do something different. They are "programmable crystals", more on the quantum computing side than optronics and photons, (the crystals emit light like a 2012 transistor emits heat]. They are a prereq for Androids and Quantum Computing AND Positronic Brain.


Computronium is defined by some as a substance which approaches the theoretical limit of computational power that we can achieve through engineering of the matter around us. It would mean that every atom of a piece of matter would be put to useful work doing computation. Such a system would reside at the ultimate limits of efficiency, and the smallest amount of energy possible would be wasted through the generation of heat.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computronium

Computronium is a material hypothesized by Norman Margolus and Tommaso Toffoli of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology to be used as "programmable matter," a substrate for computer modeling of virtually any real object.[1]

It also refers to a theoretical arrangement of matter that is the best possible form of computing device for that amount of matter.[2]

[edit]Computronium in popular culture

In the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy books, by Douglas Adams, the entire Earth is portrayed as programmable matter; a computer designed to find the question to the Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything.

Charles Stross uses the term in Accelerando.

In the Revelation Space books, by Alastair Reynolds, a neutron star called Hades is converted into a massive super computer. The neutronium substance of Hades would therefore be computronium.

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http://io9.com/5758349/why-computronium-is-really-unobtanium

Computronium is defined by some as a substance which approaches the theoretical limit of computational power that we can achieve through engineering of the matter around us. It would mean that every atom of a piece of matter would be put to useful work doing computation. Such a system would reside at the ultimate limits of efficiency, and the smallest amount of energy possible would be wasted through the generation of heat. Computronium crops up in science fiction a lot, usually as something that advanced civilizations have created, occasionally causing conflicts due to intensive harvesting of matter from their galaxy to further their processing power. The idea is also also linked with advanced machine intelligence: A block of matter which does nothing other than compute could presumably would be incredibly sought after by any artificial intelligence looking to get the most compact and powerful brain for its money!

theres more to the article

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With all of this information I have presented, do you still have a recommendation or/and a quarrel ? I am very open minded.=)

@Civ Fuehrer & MrAzure

Please work together on this. Most of the Galactic Era techs were made by Civ Fuehrer so he is the space expert. Likewise MrAzure seems to have a vast knowledge of scifi as well as real life concepts for future techs. I don't mind stepping back and letting you 2 co-create, in fact I think it would be great if you did.

I want the Cosmos part of Caveman2Cosmos to be even better than the other Civ4 space mods. We need to show them that we can have plausible techs and still make the future game fun.

EDIT:

MrAzure said:

Finished Watching Gattaca
Finished watching The Island (2005)
Finished Watching Speed Racer (the 200x version)
Finished Watching IRobot

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MrAzure if you are watching sci-movies again, here are some I recommend for some tech ideas ...

- AI Artificial Intelligence (2001)
- Animatrix (2003)
- Bicentennial Man (1999)
- Ghost in The Shell (1995)
- In Time (2011)

Note I tried to leave out ones involving aliens, ones you mentioned or the classics (ex. 2001: A Space Odyssey, War of the Worlds, The Day the Earth Stood Still, etc).

Note I realize AI has aliens at the end but they are not the main focus of the movie.

Awesome progress on the mod

How about Claytronics as a tech? 0:42 in vid.

Link to video.

Iv'e been looking on this timeline some people have made of the future and it's very interesting, Maybe you guys have already seen it. http://www.futuretimeline.net/21stcentury/2040-2049.htm

I am not sure which topic this should go under. But i guess this seems appropriate since it involves trans-human techs. Specifically Aquaculture, Vertical Farming, Ecology, Cloning and Artificial Evolution. These techs are where the crops, animal farms, animal traps, fishing and hunting stuff go obsolete. So much so it makes them very abrupt. I am wondering if some should either never go obsolete, be replaced by another building or go obsolete at another tech. For instance crops could be enhanced by vertical farming (and other techs). What do you guys think?

Note the only reason they went obsolete is because Afforess said that they should when making the Domesticated Animal mod and Farming mod. This is not RoM/AND anymore and thus we can change it to fit C2C.

Hydromancerx said:

MrAzure if you are watching sci-movies again, here are some I recommend for some tech ideas ...

...
- Ghost in The Shell (1995)
...

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Strongly seconded - awesome movie

Hydromancerx said:

Note I realize AI has aliens at the end but they are not the main focus of the movie.

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No it didn't. Thsoe were the evolved AIs.

Edit - oh, and read 'Accelerando' by Charles Stross if you haven't. Also 'Marooned in Realtime' (I want Tunc's headband), and 'A Fire Upon the Deep' (Vernor Vinge)

MrAzure said:

With all of this information I have presented, do you still have a recommendation or/and a quarrel ? I am very open minded.=)

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How about the name of the tech be changed to Robotic Brain or Artificial Consciousness? This would allow the tech to still represent the brains in Asimov's robots without implying that they use positrons instead of electrons for signalling.

jketch said:

How about the name of the tech be changed to Robotic Brain or Artificial Consciousness? This would allow the tech to still represent the brains in Asimov's robots without implying that they use positrons instead of electrons for signalling.

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Hydromancerx said:

@Civ Fuehrer & MrAzure

Stepping back and letting you 2 co-create, in fact I think it would be great if you did.

I want the Cosmos part of Caveman2Cosmos to be even better than the other Civ4 space mods. We need to show them that we can have plausible techs and still make the future game fun.

Click to expand...

@Civ Fuehrer

What do you think of this?

1. Ill rename positronic brain to Architect Brain.
2.The meaning of Computronium will change to what it says offcially in the "Encyclopedia Galactica". Ill rename the TECH to:
Computronium Design

Computronium" can be defined as any form of matter which supports computation, especially artificial substances suitable for high efficiency computation.

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http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/4637faafa6437

Pedia

Computronium" can be defined as any form of matter which supports computation, especially artificial substances suitable for high efficiency computation. Biological neural matter is also a form of computronium; baseline humans carry about 1.5 kilos of computronium in their heads as brain tissue.

It is a catchall term for a wide range of substances, the most advanced of which consist of very densely packed computational elements and used by higher intelligences for its speed and efficiency. Using it reduces signal times because of the short distance between each element and the fact that the huge number of processing units per unit volume (from a baseline's macroscale point of view, it would appear to be a continuous substance, much like human brain matter) means only a small volume of it is necessary to do a certain amount of work.

Although similar in basis, computronium varies widely according to design, function, characteristics, manufacturer, and from job to job. e.g. something that has large data access requirements (object recognition) have relatively little in common with computronium designed for something with massive computational needs (e.g. cryptography) etc. Every task requires different resources to complete, and the computronium would be optimized for performing a given type of work. Higher-order systems and AIs would no doubt have many subsystems, each containing different types of computer matter. Different empires, polities, and archai also may have a preferred type.

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