Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
OK, sorry, I miss understood. RL is affecting me adversely at the moment.
C2C: Promotions
- Thread starter ls612
- Start date
OK, sorry, I miss understood. RL is affecting me adversely at the moment.
Right. And can outcome probability be modified by promotions? If so presumably that's in the XML and can easily be added to the text generation routine for the Civopedia entries?
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Is the promotions line intent to eventually get units with 100+ XP points?
I have several Hunters/Rangers already over the 100 XP. What's it gonna be like when I have a tank with 100XP? What will stand up to it? What can stand up to my 100+XP Ranger in 1000BC?
JosEPh
I have several Hunters/Rangers already over the 100 XP. What's it gonna be like when I have a tank with 100XP? What will stand up to it? What can stand up to my 100+XP Ranger in 1000BC?
JosEPh
Someone else's 100+XP Ranger?
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Have not met him so far. 
JosEPh
JosEPh
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@ls612
Here are the Unique Units that need the new promotions added to them.
Forestry
- Jaguar Warrior
- Cherokee Rifleman
- Blackwood Archer
- Vietcong
Hillsman
- Swiss Pikeman
- Dob Dob
- Highlander
Thanks!
Here are the Unique Units that need the new promotions added to them.
Forestry
- Jaguar Warrior
- Cherokee Rifleman
- Blackwood Archer
- Vietcong
Hillsman
- Swiss Pikeman
- Dob Dob
- Highlander
Thanks!
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Yes I am adjusting outcome probabilities by promotions.
AIAndy will know more about hover over than me.By the way, I a turning off the food caravan units for now. They are not giving any food but I have the XML right as far as I can see. I will need to move the tag I use into the main unit schema at some stage.
That is caused by the two promotions that allow you to go above the limit from animals and barbarians. I am thinking of changing the python mod that does that to only allow double or triple the XP from them or adding in a number of promotions you need to get that high. It is less of a problem in other mods because they don't have such a long barbarian period as C2C.
I have a question about the Heal promotion. Right now, it shows up on the Supply Train and Great Doctor units, and it can appear on Health Care units with Medic III - but the wording and the XML seem to say that it's a SELF-healing promotion, not a unit healer. The XML adds to <iEnemyHealchange>, <iNeutralHealChange>, and <iFriendlyHealChange>, and that's where Combat IV and Combat V add to as well. Should this tech be moved away from the Health Care line?
The Medic promotion line applies to <iSameTileHealChange> and <iAdjacentTileHealChange>, and so does Woodsman III, so I don't think that the Heal promotion is doing what it was originally intended to do.
The Medic promotion line applies to <iSameTileHealChange> and <iAdjacentTileHealChange>, and so does Woodsman III, so I don't think that the Heal promotion is doing what it was originally intended to do.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
The heal promotion can be given to units by the Red Cross national wonder. It is the only healing one that should be available to non-health care units. I think that couple of the missionary units get it also. I don't think they or the supply train should get them.
All health promotions need another looking at. It has been suggested that there be some extra tags added also for equipment repair.
Red Cross is still giving Medic 1 (for Health Care only, which I've already argued is redundant). There are two Heal promotions in the PromotionInfos.xml file, one of which is commented out and the other (the active one) only open to Health Care units.
Equipment repair would be cool. I could see two sets of Heal tags, one for healing regular humans (or animals) and another for armored/siege/robot and up units.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
I thought I had done that? Oh well I have been very ill of late with other RL problems on top so may have missed it.
Please put a summary of your ideas in the Health care thread. Or your other one. I am going to be away for two weeks but will look into it when I get back.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
If its possible, I'd like to suggest to:
a) increase the strength of the Kamikaze promotion vs boats by enough to destroy a destroyer outright.
and
b) give that promotion access ONLY to the owner of Culture (Japanese) It was their unique cultural mind frame and naval battle frustrations that led to this strategy going into effect in wwII
Are these possible at all?
a) increase the strength of the Kamikaze promotion vs boats by enough to destroy a destroyer outright.
and
b) give that promotion access ONLY to the owner of Culture (Japanese) It was their unique cultural mind frame and naval battle frustrations that led to this strategy going into effect in wwII
Are these possible at all?
OK. I'll write it up for the Health Care thread.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
I disagree that it should be limited to one culture. The idea of sacrificing ones self to kill a lot of an enemy force is not limited to the Japanese. Look at terrorists who blow themselves up?
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Ok, then, for the sake of extended debate, can you imagine how it would go down if American pilots were trained to turn their planes into one shot projectile explosives in a suicidal maneuver?
When we started seeing the Japanese do this, we were mortified both among our populace and even our military leadership, because we couldn't imagine the mindframe a pilot would require to Kamikaze themselves.
But this is because we hadn't spent much time attempting to research their culture yet and as a result, we couldn't understand the cultural perspective that the Japanese have on the value of life itself and their view that death is a triumph of spirit over matter.
Contrarily, the Japanese could not understand why we would risk greater losses to attempt to rescue and save each other. We often threw off their expectations that we would leave behind the straggling and the injured. The fact that we would go so far to ensure minimal to no losses was just alien to them and upset their strategic expectations of our actions at every turn.
Truth is, both outlooks have strategic justification and value but neither side was immediately capable of predicting the other because during the first stages of the war we were both equally shocked by the differences in our value systems. These sorts of variations in values is much of what defines one culture to the next.
And there are few cultures that would support suicidal efforts in war as a bonus play rather than something to be avoided. Arguably, as you suggest, Islamic cultures tend towards this sort of strategy as well because of their belief in rewards in the afterlife for such kinds of actions taken against an enemy. Perhaps the list of cultures that can access this promotion (and perhaps others along the same lines) can be expanded, but the footnote about it being a cultural matter remains noteworthy.
When we started seeing the Japanese do this, we were mortified both among our populace and even our military leadership, because we couldn't imagine the mindframe a pilot would require to Kamikaze themselves.
But this is because we hadn't spent much time attempting to research their culture yet and as a result, we couldn't understand the cultural perspective that the Japanese have on the value of life itself and their view that death is a triumph of spirit over matter.
Contrarily, the Japanese could not understand why we would risk greater losses to attempt to rescue and save each other. We often threw off their expectations that we would leave behind the straggling and the injured. The fact that we would go so far to ensure minimal to no losses was just alien to them and upset their strategic expectations of our actions at every turn.
Truth is, both outlooks have strategic justification and value but neither side was immediately capable of predicting the other because during the first stages of the war we were both equally shocked by the differences in our value systems. These sorts of variations in values is much of what defines one culture to the next.
And there are few cultures that would support suicidal efforts in war as a bonus play rather than something to be avoided. Arguably, as you suggest, Islamic cultures tend towards this sort of strategy as well because of their belief in rewards in the afterlife for such kinds of actions taken against an enemy. Perhaps the list of cultures that can access this promotion (and perhaps others along the same lines) can be expanded, but the footnote about it being a cultural matter remains noteworthy.
rightfuture
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2008
- Messages
- 1,649
Maybe a solution could be that cultural traits could be acquired and not unique to a specific culture.
The traits could spread like a disease and the ideas influence other cultures. Ex ) a European culture could be appalled at discovering an Aztec sacrifice cult, and develop a reactionary "value human life" culture trait (or it could embrace it, blood lust - less likely). These traits could spread through cities until they are adopted (or rejected) by the culture at large.
The traits could spread like a disease and the ideas influence other cultures. Ex ) a European culture could be appalled at discovering an Aztec sacrifice cult, and develop a reactionary "value human life" culture trait (or it could embrace it, blood lust - less likely). These traits could spread through cities until they are adopted (or rejected) by the culture at large.
Maybe we should add spreadable memes.
Suicide/Kamikaze warfare could be a Military Civic, enabling all of the suicide units.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
rightfuture said:
Love the ideas here... could be done through something like the religion engine. This could then give access to various moral civic choices (and could work into some crime civic selections as well...) Perhaps religions would add, when spread to a city, a set of particular mores for each of them as well.
I would think, for simplicity though, that we'd want to simplify it a bit. The spreadable idea could get complex and demanding on the modding side. I think I agree more with adding some civics for these and for legality determinations on our nation as a whole. This would make ls's concept a bit more reasonable. But you would think that access to certain determinations on these kinds of civics would be determined by something more, like the extent of various religious spreads or cultures you have or something along those lines.
