My thought exactly, most people know what years the eras represents anyway.
How much time passes between turns?
- Thread starter DJGamer
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Faustmouse
Deity
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- Jan 31, 2012
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Not excactly meaningless, since you wouldn't see the timeframe
I was thinking if it would make sense to put the date somewhere in the Techtree, but for most of the things before ~Medieval we really don't know.
That would be a better place for it... yeah; at least at the start and end of each era.
Faustmouse
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Yeah... I was think the Techtree was redesigned so that Techs that were invented at the same time are all in the same x-colum. So if you want to enhance the teaching effect this would be really nice 
But quite unnecessary...
But quite unnecessary...
IronClaymore
Warlord
Dates don't matter as much with C2C anyway. Wasn't there a series of ice ages, the last one tapering off about ten thousand years ago? The sort of ice ages that would render most technological advancement moot and decimate populations?
It would be fun if such a thing was possible to code in, without it being a memory leak extravaganza of extreme lag. Imagine you just get to tribalism or whatever, you start building your first tribe unit, but the ice age hits and all your land becomes tundra and ice. And you spent a couple of hundred turns trying to simply keep your people alive. And sabretooth tigers and cave bears actually enter your land and attack your city directly.
So of course regular C2C we end up ahead of real life. Our civilisations are uninterrupted.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Afforess in AND, back when it was still a Modmod for Rise of Mankind, attempted something similar with his Dark Ages. He had some real trouble getting it to work properly and then had tons of players P'O'd about losing a bunch of the stuff they had made (settled/built) and then lost. Cool idea sure, good game play questionable; but would suit some but most likely Not the majority.
JosEPh
IronClaymore
Warlord
Yeah, it's tricky. Before everything else it is a game, and players want to be able to build something, something that could continue to the end of the game. You can always force things in with increasing spawns of iconic ice age creatures during certain periods, and with specific events occurring at certain times.
The idea isn't to kill civilizations, it's to delay to turn time. So there might be several hundred turns of just pushing "Enter" because nothing much happens, so we might get up to AD1 before we can possible get a spaceship. Actually that seems quite boring. Well I can always micromanage my hunters instead of letting them autohunt.
I remember that. Dark Ages tended to follow straight after Golden Ages too.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Our idea of the "Bad Karma" mod is for this sort of thing. Stuff that sets you back in some way.
I like to bring this up again.
Since really balancing the dates is a nightmare and they don't really add value to the game. Instead they make C2C look even more unbalanced as it is. Knowing the Era and the turn should be enough.
This is why i would like to remove them completely and that includes the Time Victory.
Since really balancing the dates is a nightmare and they don't really add value to the game. Instead they make C2C look even more unbalanced as it is. Knowing the Era and the turn should be enough.
This is why i would like to remove them completely and that includes the Time Victory.
I don't think we have a Realistic Tech Diffusion in C2C.
I would have nothing against this (not a shocker since I removed the date display in my modmod). Time victory doesn't care about the date, only number of turns; the victory date is usually not the same on different gamespeeds. However, I would not protest if we decide to remove this too.
Do we gain performance by not having the calendar in the background? If we do we should remove it completely.
Animal spawns would then perhaps have to depend on eras; and for the earliest extinct animals (pre. 40 000 BC) we would have to split prehistoric into two: "Middle Paleolithic" and "Upper Paleolithic".
Alternatively (and perhaps the better solution), animal spawns could depend on turns like so:
Spawn until this turn = ("A constant")x("a number that represent the gamespeed [1 for normal, 2 for epic etc.]").
"A constant" would be adjustable in a spawn xml.
EDIT: Other things to consider:
Buildings would have to display what era they were built in instead of what date.
Double commerce after 1000 years tag for buildings would need a reevaluation. The number of turns needed for the doubling might be defined for each era in the era xml, affected by gamespeed the same way as animal spawn example above.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
We still have dates because turns are defined in years, months, days etc.
Which is what albert wants to remove, I think.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
I can agree with this. And support such a change. And I think alberts2 is referring to the Display of Dates in game. Not the mechanic's for rendering turns and the amount of time each turn in an Era represents. Otherwise you would be removing Game speeds. (But maybe the idea is for C2C to be a True sand box game no turn limits?)
JosEPh
Alberts suggestion of removing dates (only displayed?) and time victory would be the same as removing the bold text: "Date - turns played/total turns" that is displayed in upper right corner. removing the latter part indicated that he also suggested to remove the underlaying calendar mechanics. Gamespeeds would be unaltered unless the calendar is remved completely as gamespeed won't have to define how much time passes between turns then.
lol, we better wait and let albert clarify what he meant in the original post that spurred this discussion.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I get this movement towards removing the dates. I really do. But I also abhor it. I've always liked to think of the dates as a measuring stick of your own society vs real world progression. Besides, don't we have it fairly well centered right now?
I suppose I'd be willing to lose on this one since it seems the consensus is to remove the dates.
I suppose I'd be willing to lose on this one since it seems the consensus is to remove the dates.
The Calendar is only there to have something to display. Dates have no deeper meaning to any important game mechanic. How the dates work is defined in the GameSpeed xml.
This simply means for the first 70 turns increment the date by 6000 months. Then for 35 turns by 2400 months and so on. There is no link between the increments and eras or anything else. The Time Victory is met after finishing the (sum of all the iTurnsPerIncrement) turns.
The 'Double commerce after 1000 years tag' for buildings could be changed to a 'after xxx turns tag. Unit Spawns could also be changed to turns. All the places there a Date is displayd could be replaced by the number of the turn.
Code:
<GameTurnInfos>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iMonthIncrement>6000</iMonthIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>70</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iMonthIncrement>2400</iMonthIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>35</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iMonthIncrement>840</iMonthIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>100</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iMonthIncrement>180</iMonthIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>100</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iMonthIncrement>100</iMonthIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>96</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iMonthIncrement>40</iMonthIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>150</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iMonthIncrement>15</iMonthIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>120</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iMonthIncrement>10</iMonthIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>90</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iMonthIncrement>15</iMonthIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>240</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
</GameTurnInfos>The 'Double commerce after 1000 years tag' for buildings could be changed to a 'after xxx turns tag. Unit Spawns could also be changed to turns. All the places there a Date is displayd could be replaced by the number of the turn.
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