C2C - Religions discussions and ideas

I know. Already pitched it to him and he's happy with how it is now. I'd prefer neither than just one though, so if it comes to a vote I'd vote against having Temples reduce crime. *smile*

Cheers
 
Dancing Hoskuld is currently working on adding "Faces of God", you can read about that mod here. :)

ahhh i see well the premise seems like the one in gods and kings(guess fraxis couldn't really think of something original could they? :p ) anyways i would love to see it in c2c.
 
I know. Already pitched it to him and he's happy with how it is now. I'd prefer neither than just one though, so if it comes to a vote I'd vote against having Temples reduce crime. *smile*

Cheers

And I seconded it to him too, with an added 'twist".

And I would vote yes, if it came to a vote. :p

JosEPh ;)
 
1-We could have elections to see who's the next president:
When you're setting up the game, you choose if you want to be the president, the army general, the prime ministre.... of the game.
-if you are the amry general, your mission is to obey the president's orders. (if the president says he wants the city X, then your mission is to work and to capture this city)
If you work hard and you succecfuly accomplish all the president's orders, you get a bigger chance to win the next elections and be the president coz the people of the state will love you for leading them into victory. (there should be a bar where you see how much you get trusted when you accomplish a mission)

-if you are a prime minister, your mission is to grow the economy/culture/science of the state. If you work hard and grow very good the economy/culture/science; the people of the state will trust you and maybe vote for you in the next elections to be their president.

-if you are the president, then you have your own army, the general army is yours but is only to give them orders and to raise your power.

-if you were a general or prime ministre and you become the president, and in the next elections you didn't win, then you again become a general/prime ministre depending on what you were.

-when you are a general (or PM); you will have an election combat with the PM (or general); the winner will be the president depending on who collected more confidence.


2-There should be civil wars:
-The president; the PM and the general will have each one his own army. If the general became hostile with the president, then he will maybe decalre war on him to take his place. Or maybe the PM will become hostile with the president. Or the PM VS. the General. Or there will be a total civil war in the state (PM Vs President Vs. General)

3-There could be A Resistence Force in the state:
-This resistance will show if the state is in danger when he loose a war; it don't always show. Buy maybe 50%. Other civilizations can help it by giving it units or money.
-this resistance can assist a civil war or elections.
-It can work for the benefit of another state.

4-There could be terrorrists:
-Not barbarians; but terrorists. They can do operations that can threat all the world. they can buil a nuclear missile and lunch it on other civilizations. all the nations will be united to stop them.

-They can do operations to conquer a city in a state.

-Attention: There should be many terrorrist group; not only one terrorrist group; maybe 2 or 5 or 7.

-There maybe should be a civilization who will support these terrorrist group or create one.

5-Why not Assassinations:
-The general/president/MP/resistance leader; should be represented by units (like workers...)
-the president could be represented by a Limo and convoy surrounding it.
-the general could be represented by a military jeep and many military convoy surrounding him.
-The MP could be represented by a black jeep and only one black car in the front of him.
-The resistence leader could be represented by a man carrying a weapon and guards surrounding him (without cars)
-Maybe the (General/MP/resistance leader) can assassinate another state's leader if they don't like him or he threats their own state)

-There could be 2 leaders in a state (maybe a MP and president) that don't like each other, the MP order his man to go and assassinate the president; if he success, then a new election will begin but if he fail, then a civil war will begin.

-There could be 2 different civilization leaders that don't like each others, then they try to assassinate eache other, if they fail, then the war is on the door.

-(the story is not real; only exemples) maybe vietnam don't like america, then it want america to fall. But vietnam is to weak against america. So Vietnam will try to kill the american leader using russian clothes, weapons etc...

-This how could be the assassination table: (exemple if you are the president)
a)Assassination inside the state:
. kill the MP
. kill the general
. kill the resistance leader

b)Assassination outside the state:
. kill the leader (X ...)
. kill the leader (X ...) using weapons and clothes of (Y ....)

6-The United nations should be useful:
The members of the UN in the game can do these:
-If a state is demanding money from another state to end a war, then the UN will maybe pay for the state to help the other state.
-If a state is in way of bankrupt, then the UN will help it.
-A state can enter and quit the UN.
-Not if 2 states are in the UN then they can't enter a war again't each others.
-Not if the UN offers to pay a state to stop conquering another state mean that this state will accept.

7-They should let us when setting up a game to: (If we wanted to)
-Choose the state's name.
-choose the state's flag.
-choose the state's religion.
-choose the state's cities name.
-choose the (president/MP/General) animation when talking with them:
a)You edit the (President/MP/Gen.) appearence.
b)You choose the background of the (President/MP/Gen.)'s place.
c)You choose the way that he(welcome/declare war on/accept/refuse...) you.
d)There should be 1000 stuffs for this.

8-We should have a create a world in the main game.

9-There should be a table in the game that represent all the wars of all the game. A HISTORY i mean. It will say:
-X declared war on X in turn:X and year:X
-X conquered city X. in // // //
-The UN gave money to X to end war on X.
-General X failed to kill president X and the civil war started in X.
-MP X was assassinated in turn:X and // //.
-Civ X had the first person to arrive to the space in turn:X and year:X

10-There should be a table representing the history of the most powerful states:
-Civ X became the most powerful state in year:X and turn:X
- // // // // // // // // // // // // //

11-When a civilization conquer all ur cities, you should not loose and get out automaticaly from the game, but you will do these steps:
-You dont loose, even if you dont have any city or any unit.
-You cant control anything in ur civilization.
-If you were a President (or anything else) and your country became conquered, you'll not be the president anymore, because everybody (Presidents, generals, PM, party's leaders....) will become with the civilization that conquered you.
-You become a resistance leader, and you start growing ur secret military that nobody can see it, only you, even if you are in ur conquered civilization.
-You can get help from a civilization that hate the civilization that conquered you, i mean help by money, military units...
-You can make assassinations, and nobody will know that this is you, even if you fail because nobody know about your movement.
-When u are ready for war, then start it. At this moment, everybody will know you and they can see ur military units, (Presidents, generals.... can choose if they will help you or help the other civilization), if you win, then you gain victory BUT if you fail, then this is the moment that you should say goodbye for the game. LOL.
-So the game should give you a second chance.

12- The city should not be one part, it should be 4 or 5 parts:
-When a war start, or better a Civil War, and military units are getting ready to conquer a city, they should start conquering parts of this city to control it all. Ex: "I am a Prime ministre and i have my own military and i am in a civil war with the General or with a Party. I want to conquer that city whish it is controled by The Part X, so my forces start conquering the south of the city, then the west, then the east, then the north." (You see how, when conquering a part, you should fight until its health reach 0, then you go to the other part of the city, you will maybe fail the war)

-I'll LOVE this cz it happens at big cities in the real world in Civil Wars, yeah I think when you control only a part of a big city and you're getting ready to try moving to the other part.
 
I'll respond to these point by point but such a mass generic idea blast such as this should be in the Ideas and Discussion thread since its not narrowed down to a specific subject.

1)An idea like that has been floated to potentially tie into the Changing Leaderheads project. This is looming on the radar but there's a lot of work in the way first (you'll hear this on most of these ideas so for the most part I'm letting you know you've been heard and giving you a status on the idea so far.)

2)The potential for this already exists under the Revolutions option but a new way this could take place may become a part of the Adopt a Culture project which is related to the above Changing Leaderheads project so would fall along the lines of being developed around the same time.

3)I'll have to give some thought as to how that could work exactly... may play into above plans or some of the other concepts below.

4)Basically Spies are terrorists depending on how you see them. But I've always wanted to have a different unit to represent terrorists that have their own particularly devious brand of spy missions. They could/should only come from having access to a terrorist group (which would operate along the Corporations mechanic and would be a close cousin of an Organized Crime group which would work the same way.) The idea of secret societies ties in so closely here too that all three would probably form a project of their own. But its not on the radar at all right now so it could be years, if at all, if we don't expand the design team.

5) Would work in perfectly with the Leaderheads as Units project which is the pinnacle of the projects that I mentioned in the first few responses. (changing leaderheads and adopt a culture) Additionally, DH is doing some things with Diplomat units and something to do with assassination may come into play in his work there (I dunno...).

6)I'd like to refer back to your ideas here when I start working on improving the UN. We need to do some work on those kinds of issues somewhat soon anyhow as we want to put in another step beyond the UN eventually (Galactic Federation).

7)Much of that falls under the development reach of aforementioned projects. Some of it would not apply, some of it would, to an extent.

8)I'm not sure what you're asking for here... there is always the map editor function that's been with us all along.

9)Interesting idea. Not my realm nor would it be a project I'd pick up considering all I'd like to do as a priority before this kind of thing. It'd be nice to have of course.

10) same response as 9... but then again, don't we already have this in the charting basically?

11) I had an idea along those lines that may eventually be incorporated into the Leaders as Units project OR in a Secret Society style mod... a couple of ways to approach that issue exist but are at the fringes of any kind of actual mod planning.

12)Interesting idea, but I don't see it as all too practical unless we eventually use multimaps to create zoomed in plotmaps for tactical battles which I don't think will ever happen unless we're still working on this a decade from now and computers could allow for it. Might be possible to mod it as you stated but I can hear Koshling moaning about the AI implications already ;) (and I'm harmonizing with that in the background, having an idea of what it would take... ooph).


Good ideas. Not meaning to shut them down... just understand that some of these are closer on the radar than others and due to the volume of effort some would entail they may never really manifest.
 
Zoroantrism's "Tower of Silence" breaks the chain from Graveyard. Mausoleum, Steele, and Ancient Embalmer will never be possible to build as you can not have both ToS and Graveyard in the same city.
Should not Religion buildings be a "bonus" and not have some detrimental effects, or in the long run a building that some will just never build as it's worse than the combination of the 4 buildings it blocks.

Cheers
 
Zoroantrism's "Tower of Silence" breaks the chain from Graveyard. Mausoleum, Steele, and Ancient Embalmer will never be possible to build as you can not have both ToS and Graveyard in the same city.
Should not Religion buildings be a "bonus" and not have some detrimental effects, or in the long run a building that some will just never build as it's worse than the combination of the 4 buildings it blocks.

Cheers

I always build it because it gets rid of 4 buildings from the build queue at once.:lol: Zoroastrianism believes dead bodies are bad and the Earth is good so you don't want to pollute the Earth. I still need to do the adjustments to Zoroastrianism and Slavery. Zoroastrianism forbids the ownership of slaves so there needs to be a mallus if Zoroastrianism is your state religion (not possible at the moment) but I can put it on the buildings.
 
@DH

Can we add religions doctrines to all religions - but like in civ 5 social policies religion doctrine can be choosen one time per religion per entire game.

Every doctrine to work will require tech and correct number of religion points (and state religion in city of course) only state religion will give bonuses from doctrines.

Example of doctiones categories (can choose only one option per doctrine category)

Burial doctrines - req. ceremonial burial

- burial in water (+ 1 happines in all costal and river cities with state rel.)
- burn corpses (+1 health in all cities with state religion)
- burial in ground (+1 happy from graveyard in all cities with state religion)

Sacrifice doctrine - req sacrifice cult

- no sacrifices (+1 happy in all cities)
- animal sacrifices (+0.5 gold per citizen in all cities)
- enemy sacrifices (+1 xp in all cities)
- human sacrifices ( -2 relations will all with animal or no sacrifices, +10 stability bonus, +1 xp)

This will make religion more important that it is now. Every religion will develop with techs. Religion building will be more important because they will give + x :religion: points and doctrines will require this points to work. It will make also more important to spread your state religion to all of your cities. Only cities with state religion will have doctrines bonus.
 
Just a balance problem : in my last game, I often witch between mesopotamian, yoruba and shamanism to build all the sepacial building of these religions".
I think it s not fair : the "state religion must be present in the city" building must be desactivate when you switch religion... Same with wonders.
 
Just a balance problem : in my last game, I often witch between mesopotamian, yoruba and shamanism to build all the sepacial building of these religions".
I think it s not fair : the "state religion must be present in the city" building must be desactivate when you switch religion... Same with wonders.

As far as I know this can't be done for religions. I have asked for tags so we can.

@Nimek I have not has my morning coffee yet so I will need to think a bit harder on your suggestions however I do know that


Burial doctrines - req. ceremonial burial

- burial in water (+ 1 happines in all costal and river cities with state rel.)
- burn corpses (+1 health in all cities with state religion)
- burial in ground (+1 happy from graveyard in all cities with state religion)

wont work for Zoroastrianism their belief system would not allow any of those they believe in sky burial since it does not desicrate the earth.
 
@DH
Drink coffe first. Open your mind. In my proposal from current religions only name will stay. You as a player will decide (by doctrines) what belive system will be.

In civ as a roman you can built piramids. With my idea as christian you can belive in holy cow.

Did you finish your coffe and understand the idea now?
 
Too much change. Current system is literally years of work. Why throw that away?

And I've had my coffee. ;)

JosEPh
 
@DH
Drink coffe first. Open your mind. In my proposal from current religions only name will stay. You as a player will decide (by doctrines) what belive system will be.

In civ as a roman you can built piramids. With my idea as christian you can belive in holy cow.

Did you finish your coffe and understand the idea now?

OK, I understand what you are saying. However in Civ IV religion is about war and alliances at it basic. The wonders and so on are developments we have added to the individual religions. If I were to change religions it would be more towards the "Rapture" mod's method - each city develop their own gods/goddesses or cults to start with based on your culture ant geography. Each cult has its cult buildings. Eventually a leader will come along to unify these into a polytheistic whole. Some radicals will come along later suggesting variations. Dualism and Monotheism and so on.
 
Burial doctrines - req. ceremonial burial

- burial in water (+ 1 happines in all costal and river cities with state rel.)
- burn corpses (+1 health in all cities with state religion)
- burial in ground (+1 happy from graveyard in all cities with state religion)

There are many other types of burial such as viking sending their dead out in a boat and then burning the boat. Or in Tibet where they put the body out for the vultures and eagles to eat (which is a type of "sky burial"). While some people wish to be frozen and hope that they can be revived in the future when the technology is advanced enough. There is also mummification, preservation and even the extreme case of taxidermy (which as becoming a medical cadaver). Likewise there are some people donated to science and others who's bones eventually become decoration such as with the Capuchin Crypt (which would be an awesome wonder to have).
 
@Joseph

I want to throw it away because current system dont add any impact to the gameplay. I played many civ 4 games and always had entire religion stuff in my ass ;)

Thats the point civ 4 have many cool concepts but their impact is so small that they can be totaly ignored. I have other ideas more simple to implement i will post later.

@hydro
that was only ex wat we can do with religions to give them like in reality was more impact. Think about holy wars, holy states, cursed by pope add other stuff that we can add.
 
I of course would not like to see the current system thrown away for there's baby in that bathwater. Adjust and evolve, don't reinvent all over again.
 
@thunderbird - this is evolution :)

How hard will be to add religion points to religion buildings? Ex christian temple will give +2 christian points per turn. Every city will colect points from every religion that is present in city.

I need that points to determine how faithful people are and what impact every religion have to their lives. This is very importan part of this idea :).
 
@Nimek,
Make a mommod and put it in the Modmod subforum. Then see how many ppl d/l it. If it becomes popular it could be later integrated into the Main mod like CivPlayer8's Civics.

Golden Rule: just because You don't use it/like it don't spoil it for those that Do.

JosEPh :)
 
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