Do you build academies or research a technology with your Great Scientists?

I haven't done a science victory since BNW came out, and I was wondering if anything changed. Should I be building academies or researching techs? I figure speeding up techs late game would be more helpful, but building an academy early game would be better? Also, does the strategy change for you if using Korea or Babylon? Because I'm planning to play one of them.

The only moment worth building Academies are when you get Writing as Babylon. Otherwise do not waste the most powerful Great Person in the game.

i do not have Babylon on BNW? Am I missing a patch?

Lrd Dread said:

i do not have Babylon on BNW? Am I missing a patch?

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Babylon is a DLC civilization.

I would have to say anytime before turn 200 (standard) I'd be inclined to settle them. The only times I would pop them is if I'm trying to get a timing down (like Acoustics tech and legalism) or I'm in desperate need for some military tech to fend off an invasion or start an invasion depending on the victory I'm aiming for.

To further explain why settling is better is because GS pop only gives 8 turns worth of science so if your only producing a meager 20 beakers then only 160 beakers (which I believe is one classical tech). So settle them in the city where your going to slap your NC in and wait for a bigger prize.

Also, I'd recommend you slap it onto grassland its a self sufficient tile (2 food = 1 citizen) or a strategic resource so you'll always beable to use the tile.

I'll use it for an academy if I'm in the ancient era... Maybe early classical, but beyond that i pop techs

I generally build Academies until the Industrial era, as I read somewhere a while ago that up until then an academy combined with the science output of a properly outfitted city can generate about the same as burning the GS for research. I have not done the math on it, though, and perhaps should be burning GS's earlier in the game - perhaps during the Renaissance era.
All of this depends on your game plan, and how long you think the game will go on. I could see planting a late Scientist or two with the appropriate social policies/tenets, especially if you are playing as Korea. But I haven't played for a science victory in a long while. Perhaps go scout out the Strategy boards for better info.

Sonereal said:

Babylon is a DLC civilization.

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what dlc .... do I have to dl from steam?

Lrd Dread said:

what dlc .... do I have to dl from steam?

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http://store.steampowered.com/app/16868/

The 1st one, I always plant. No matter how I plan to play. Your value on that planting is far more than bulbing him. At least in my games that is the case. On certian game speeds, I can see where this might not be the case.

Do the math to decide if it is worth it. Math never lies!!

Take Korea, you get +2 extra beakers. Take Freedom, you get extra beakers for the great person tile improvements. It's not that bad.

As Korea I get 6 beakers/specialist, 2 from UA+2 from Secularism(Rationalism)+50% from NC. Korean Academies yield 10 beakers I guess? I'd rather take GP generation, half food and unhappiness, hammer/beaker/gold/culture.

I plant academies until I have public schools. Then I start saving them for until after I have research labs. It's not unusual for me to have 4 or 5 academies around my capital.

ezbutton said:

I'd recommend you slap it onto grassland its a self sufficient tile (2 food = 1 citizen) or a strategic resource so you'll always beable to use the tile.

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Really? do you get the resource if you plant a Great Person tile? I thought you had to have the applicable improvement to get the resource?

In general, I think planting is better earlier in the game, but the city must have a spare person (maybe on grass is fine, but do you have enough production?), and the infrastructure to make good use of the academy.

I have a few late-game now, and with the various WC charters and ideology thingies, I am getting huge amounts of science from each. With a few enhancement buildings, that gives me a massive tech lead, so it was well worth it. Given my enhancements, it's almost still worth it, but not quite as I want it now, NOW I TELL YOU!!

You can safely assume that the first one (as long as it is really early, pre-200) is ALWAYS better as an Academy. After that, just do a calculation. When you get it, just hover over the "Research" command button that tells you how many Science points it would generate; then go to your science city, and hover over the Science points to display components, and look for the general modifier (in %) applied to the Science points. For example, if your academies are making 10 points each, and your general science modifier for that city is 83%, you would be generating some 18 science points from a new academy from now on. Compare that to the research value.

For example, you get a GS with a research value of 2287. Your science city has a modifier of 83%, and your academies are generating 10 points each. Thus a new academy will generate 18 science points after the modifier; it needs therefore 2287/18 ~ 127 turns to break even with the research option. If you are now in turn 200, it means that given present conditions, from turn 327 and on you will get more from the academy than researching now.

Of course, this is only a good baseline. Other considerations are also important; if you can get a critical tech, perhaps with a critical wonder ahead of the rest, then that adds to the value of the research option. And so on...

It really depends on what game length you're playing. Marathon makes it pretty much 100% to go acadamy if its quick its pretty much only useful to pop them.
But you can do the maths as Aristos has said (and shown) you just need to think about it.
Also its hilarious on Petra Desert tiles, or Tundra, you dont need the tile to be food neutral, especially if its your capital.
Any Great person Tile improvement will automatically work a strategic resource for you (but you wont get the extra production from a mine or anything)

Anarchist said:

Really? do you get the resource if you plant a Great Person tile? I thought you had to have the applicable improvement to get the resource?

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They connect strategic resources, not luxuries. They will not improve luxuries. But if you later find coal/uranium etc. where you planted a GS, it will be available without mining.

This makes sense because you can always see where luxuries are, but in early game you won't know where all strategic resources are, and you shouldn't have to destroy an academy later to harvest them.

Randall_Flagg said:

The 1st one, I always plant. No matter how I plan to play. Your value on that planting is far more than bulbing him.

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I disagree, most of the time the bulb is considerably more useful. It yields you ~8 turns worth of science, which is a very potent advantage.

I build academies early in the game, before industrial era, to get a high science production. After that it becomes a lot better to just bulb everything out of the way, as the science points from an academy start to make less difference.

VainoValkea said:

I disagree, most of the time the bulb is considerably more useful. It yields you ~8 turns worth of science, which is a very potent advantage.

I build academies early in the game, before industrial era, to get a high science production. After that it becomes a lot better to just bulb everything out of the way, as the science points from an academy start to make less difference.

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Just finished a quick Babylon game. Nothing like bulbing 7 GSs with 5100+ power each

I'm just experimenting with warmongering in BNW, and passed science funding in the WC to get maximum bulbs. I also have thousands of faith racked up but no GP faith buying option yet, my tech tree will flower when I finish Rationalism.