Complete List Of Elephant Units

Theov said:

Ares, please post the elephant units, I'm very interested as my mod has elephants as a strategic resource.

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... Plus you're implying that there are gaps in my Archive!

-z

I thank you from the bottom of my ... Archive

-z

That Indian King Poros elephant. I might have it too, if it's the one called Indo-Greek Elephant.
So then I am not permitted to use it

All this so called legal stuff really gets troublesome IMHO. I know certain rules and specially if you nick them from another published game (that's bad) could start getting ugly, but as I understand and believe is that when a unit is published on this website it should be free for all to enjoy (and if include in future mods or scenario it should be credit to the member who made it)

You presented a whole bunch of that fine animal and hopefully you (or someone else) that got these fine units could and will upload them for all to enjoy.

I start checking my collections what I and my old man DL over time.
So one do have "legal" permit before anything is put on display ??

clamel said:

That Indian King Poros elephant. I might have it too, if it's the one called Indo-Greek Elephant.
So then I am not permitted to use it

All this so called legal stuff really gets troublesome IMHO. I know certain rules and specially if you nick them from another published game (that's bad) could start getting ugly, but as I understand and believe is that when a unit is published on this website it should be free for all to enjoy (and if include in future mods or scenario it should be credit to the member who made it)

You presented a whole bunch of that fine animal and hopefully you (or someone else) that got these fine units could and will upload them for all to enjoy.

I start checking my collections what I and my old man DL over time.
So one do have "legal" permit before anything is put on display ??

Click to expand...

I have a friend who works at the Library of Congress and is quite familiar with copyright issues. Would the forum like me to query her regarding this.

Generally, if something is posted online in a forum like this, it is assumed to be effectively in the public domain for personal use, and only becomes an issue if someone then uses the creation for a profit-making enterprise. If someone is that concerned about use by other individuals, they would need to indicate so in the posting and specifically state that the item is under copyright. Even then, the right of use for personal or educational use would still be valid.

Currently, I am setting up a contract with the estate of Jack Coggins, a very good illustrator of World War 2 military equipment, for use of his illustrations in a couple of projects I am working on. In discussions with the attorney for the estate, using his illustrations for education use in the form of handouts for my World War 2 class does not pose any violation of copyright. However, if, as I plan to do, I then take my collection of handouts, and turn them into a book covering World War 2 military technology and use which is accepted by a publisher for printing and release, then I need to pay a fee for the use of the copyright material.

The bottom line is, is the use intended for a for-profit or at least cost-recovery activity, or more for personal use, without charge.

clamel said:

... as I understand and believe is that when a unit is published on this website it should be free for all to enjoy (and if include in future mods or scenario it should be credit to the member who made it).

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You've got it exactly right, clamel.

AFAIK, based on my experience both as a staff member and contributor, no one is going to get into trouble for using anything that was posted here in the past, present or future. The only exception would be that if someone posted something from somewhere else as their own work that wasn't and the real creator took steps to have it removed, then we would be obligated to not re-upload it or we would risk CFC being shutdown. I'm only aware of one situation in the last 10 years where that happened, and the units in question here - the very few Balck / Yang Liu removed - aren't it. Things uploaded or linked here are definitely free to use in our scenarios, mods, etc.

The only issue I raised was that sometimes (rarely but it does happen) people remove their work on purpose. Maybe because they've made a newer version. Maybe because they didn't like it & feel it's embarrassing for it to be here. Maybe for other reasons. The reason it was removed on purpose by the creator doesn't matter. What matters is their intent that it no longer be available to download.

imho it's fine to re-upload something that disappeared by accident. Like when people put a lot of effort into recovering everything lost - including old stuff made by people who weren't around any more - when the database was hacked. I don't see any problem with using something you've already downloaded. Even including it in a scenario or mod which you upload seems ok to me. But imho uploading something to the database as an individual stand-alone item which the author removed on purpose seems like it violates the spirit of community we've worked hard for many years to build.

That's just my opinion. Other people are welcome to act differently. All I can do, all I am trying to do, is suggest that people consider the effect of what they do on the C&C community as a whole. Respect, appreciation, encouragement - none of those things has to do with laws, contracts, what's commonly mistakenly phrased as "public domain", lack of understanding about how copyright and copyleft work, or anything else that can be enforced. My personal experience is that people are more likely to continue to make wonderful toys for us to play with when they are respected. They also pay attention to how we treat other creators, not just themselves. It's about being collegial.

I'm not going to debate whether or not my personal take on community-building is "correct". Certainly not in a thread that's on another topic. So I'd suggest that if people want to further discuss the general principle we do so elsewhere. Contact me by PM, start a thread in Site Feedback (the subforum where CFC policy is discussed), or carry on somewhere else more appropriate.

... as I understand and believe is that when a unit is published on this website it should be free for all to enjoy (and if include in future mods or scenario it should be credit to the member who made it).

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clamel... I will add that what IF someone was wrong in Uploading something that they did not have permission to Upload and then someone else decides that because it was Uploaded it is Legally free to use due to the "Rules of the Site"?

In my Opinion (and I Agree), Blue Monkey is essentially saying to not only use legalities but to practice "The Golden Rule" where Legalities do not exist Both are important.

Vuldacon said:

clamel... I will add that what IF someone was wrong in Uploading something that they did not have permission to Upload and then someone else decides that because it was Uploaded it is Legally free to use due to the "Rules of the Site"?

In my Opinion (and I Agree), Blue Monkey is essentially saying to not only use legalities but to practice "The Golden Rule" where Legalities do not exist Both are important.

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Agreed, both on the (I like it) " Rule's" spirit and most definitely where legalities are involved (this is why all the magnificent TopGun & Fire Fox aircraft were taken down, and why I only re-u/l-ed a fraction of them: those were the one's were legalities had been clarified.)

Personally, I get a bit nervous when credits for a unit or whatever include anyone not registered on the CFC boards and, most especially, if those credits include a legal entity (e.g., and deliberately reaching back into The Mists Of Time, CTP City conversions.)

Again personally, I would like to see some disclaimer regarding any such potential issues whenever any such "suspect" creative work is uploaded - and shall almost certainly put up such a query in the appropriate, general forum section.

Cautiously Yours,
Oz

P.S. I would note that, re: The Golden Rule, something along the line Kyriakos' ubiquitous statement viz. his creations - "Please note that these graphics are free only for use in the civ3 community. Any commercial use of them is forbidden by the author. Furthermore any alteration of them which becomes public is forbidden unless I have agreed otherwise, and this is true for everything posted by me" might be helpful: per CFC's rules, it's not at all legally binding but, given the community spirit here at CFC, should be honored.

-O.

P.P.S. Accordingly, IMHO, anyone retroactively making such a statement - again IMHO - requires much greater qualification, perhaps along the lines of a new and completely independent thread making such a proclamation: a single annoyed blurb buried in a thread of a different subject matter shouldn't "count," just as a whispered declaration in the corner of a public hall cannot reasonably be considered a declaration.

-O.

A very cool discussion, but I can't help to ask if the majority of you guys are really from US ? Why then ? Well as an European we tend to imagine that this is why you americans got loads of lawyers always at hand in disputes of all kinds.

OK take this as a joke mates
I just got rather confused by all the twists and turns in this issue, but fun to read ...

I hope whatever Elephants remains among us might be uploaded so we can share, THEN if someone make a legal move with all the power of lawyers and lawsuit we can always delete them AND enjoy a pint while laughing at it all.
As said before lots of the stuff is from creators that no longer is around and I think only should be angry out of spite and old arguments (and who cares)

The forum is for fun isn't it

Now I hope I didn't got out of hand, and if so do slap me around a bit