Colonization 2 - Ideas & Suggestions

[caknuck]

1) Some AI-controlled traders - Have some NPC trading vessels and wagon trains move around the map. If you offend them (by attacking them or their allied Indians or by haggling too much) their deals become less and less advantageous. If you treat them well, you get some bargains.

2) Alliances with the Indian tribes - "As the King's representative in the New World, I will be happy to furnish you with the 93 food you need... but only if you send your warriors to raid Guadaloupe."

(more will follow as I remember them...)

[dalgo]

In Colonization 2 I would like to see a greater difference between the four starting nations. For instance each could start with a Founding Father already in Congress, one that reflects their present national trait.

England (Immigration) starts with either William Penn (cross production increased by 50%) or William Brewster (no crims).

Spain (Conquest) starts with Hernan Cortes (more treasure from conquered Indian villages).

France (Cooperation) starts with Pocahantes (Indian alarm generated half as fast) and as an additional bonus Indian villages train two colonists instead of one.

Dutch (Trade) starts with Jan de Witt (trade with foreign countries allowed)

This would also tend to even out the starting benefits a little. At present the Dutch have a big advantage but de Witt is only a small improvement compared to the start the others would get.

If Portugal were to be added what Founding Father would suit them best?

[Comrade Pedro]

Fernad Magellan of course, the only Portuguese Founding Father present =)

[Icevulture]

They're making a new Railroad Tycoon game called Railroads!, so Sid Meier could absolutely make a new colonization if he was interested. I hope one day a new colonization comes out, simply because it's about the only game that can even compete with Civilization as the best strategy game/series ever.

[Slax]

Well, I think the map gets pretty crowded quickly as it is, so while I'd like more European countries to choose from, I don't think I'd like more countries competing. Maybe one more if maps are bigger.

Needs more diplomacy.

[Skylark]

What I want for next Colonization game:

- building queue

- advanced trade route rules:
* transport lumber to Quebec if there is less than 50 lumber in it AND Montreal has more than 80.

- advanced worker actions:
* if lumber=300, go to carpenters shop, return when lumber=100
* the rules could also be in form of
- priority I work place, priority II work place etc and conditions for them.

- parallel building: if you have build something but there are not enough tools, the additional hammers are not
wasted, your carpenter builds the next building. (and because of your advanced trade routes, you will get the
tools automatically if you configure your routes well.

- upkeep cost for troops -> get a motivation to build more than 1-4 colonies to support your war of indenpendence army!

- soldiers should DIE!

- native villages trade needs and training visible when scout has visited them.

- Other powers should also fight for independence.

- They should be more intelligent and do not cheat (where do they get all the dragoons to hang around your colonies!!)

- You should LOSE the game if some one wins the independence before you!

- maybe slaves somehow. Don't know how they would be in. Got regularly or "bought" from Old World.

- I have always wondered that how can you _buy_ your buildings? Where do they come from? Dwarves come from mountains to
build them to yourself? Maybe you should not be able to buy building, instead you put more workers to rush it compelete
(I you have played Lords of the Realm II, do know what I mean)

[joefeez]

what im about to say will be the perfect colonization that i hope gets checked out..so i will write the rest in capitals..FIRST OF ALL.IT IS SET IN 1400S..AND ANY NATION ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE 1400S YOU CAN PICK..THE FULL WORLD WILL BE PRESENT..SPAIN PORTUGAL FRANCE AND BRITAIN WILL OBVIOUSLY BE THE SUPER POWERS AND BETTER AT COLONIZING AND EXPLORINGREAL HISTORICAL PEOPLE SHOULD BE IN THE GAME LIKE IN THE LAST ONE EXCEPT MORE.SCHOOLS TO TEACH TH ELANGUAGE OF THE CONQUEROR AND ACCURATE LANGUAGES.AND ..RELIGION (REAL RELIGIONS CATHOLICSM, JUDAISM) MUST BE IN TO KEEP PEACE...SLAVES CAN BE USED FROM ANY CONQUERED AREA..AFRICAN SLAVES AS WELL..AND THERE SHOULD BE FAMILYS AND SEXUAL RELATIONS WICH CAUSE PEACE, AND YOU CAN CHOOSE COLONISTS AND GENERALS TO HAVE SEX WITH THE NATIVE WOMEN AND KILL FAMILIES..NOT BEING RUDE BUT THIS IS HISTORICALLY CORRECT LETS NOT ACT LIEK THIS NEVER HAPPENED.NATIVE TRIBES SHOULD BE ACCURATELY PLACED..SUCH AS AZTECS CONTROLLING MEXICO AND INCAS IN PERU ETC..THE FOOD AND GOODS TRANSP:ORTATION PROCESS SHOULD BE MUCH EASIER TO FIGURE OUT AND MUCH SIMPLER, BUILDINGS SHOULD BE ABLE TO BE CONSTURCTED AT ANY HEIGHT OR WIDTH ..BUT PRICE WILL OBVIOUSLY VARY.. GRAPHICS A LITTLE MORE HIGH QUALITY EVEN THOUGH THE LAST GAMES GRAPHICS WERE AMAZING LOVED HOW THE WATER AND LAND LOOKED REAL...YOU CAN CONTROL YOUR PRIESTS LIKE YOU CAN IN EMPIRE TOTAL WAR..THERE SHOULD BE VARIOUS GAMEPLAYS BUT WORLD CAMPAIGN SHOULD BE THE ONE WHERE YOU START WITH ONE NATION AND YOUR GOAL IS TO CONQUER THE WORLD.AND COLONIZE

[dalgo]

Welcome to the forum joefeez

Colonization 2 is out now, it's called Civilization IV: Colonization. Of the ideas you suggest only one is included in the base game - the graphics are way better than in the original. However the new game can be fully customised so many of the ideas you suggest may have already been implemented by others - or you could do the mods yourself (not sure about the sex though )

See this forum for more details:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=315

[Wolfbeckett]

Epic necropost bro. 5 and a half years, near enough.

[joefeez]

Originally Posted by dalgo

Welcome to the forum joefeez

Colonization 2 is out now, it's called Civilization IV: Colonization. Of the ideas you suggest only one is included in the base game - the graphics are way better than in the original. However the new game can be fully customised so many of the ideas you suggest may have already been implemented by others - or you could do the mods yourself (not sure about the sex though )

See this forum for more details:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=315

i meant to say the newest colonization will be better like this...i know civilization iv is out but i didnt really like it

[wakening]

I have been looking for discussion of the original game. I am really here under false pretenses since for my money Civilization was rubbish compared with Colonization, but I have to admit that I only judged by the original Amiga versions for each.

My wife and I waited 16 years for a follow up for Colonization, and when it came in the form of Civilization IV it was the biggest disappointment of our gaming life. So we still play the original Amiga version on the Amiga and a "Crucial" copy of the original on the PC.

I note that mods are available for Civ IV/Colonization in a reasonable attempt to make the game worth the bother, but I do not see any mods for Colonization I. We, personally, would not seek much change, but there are one or two things which irritate us and which I would have thought could be dealt with by fairly simple mods - which I am not competent to make.

One is the inability to close colonies which have become redundant or are unwanted if the population is 3 or more. Silly this, especially when capturing a foreign power's colony, badly located, badly managed, which has suddenly developed extra population and a wall while being attacked.

Another is the inaccessibility of inland lakes/seas. One of the few good things in Civ4/Colonization is the ability to build canals; Could a mod for this be created for Col I ?

Another, which I see mentioned above, is that computer controlled foreign powers should be subject to the same rules as the player.

Does anyone know if such mods exist, or in fact if any mods exist other than mapping mods?

Whatever - we still prefer to continue with the creaking versions of Colonization I rather than playing the pathetic CivIV/Colonization offering.

I have a lot of sympathy for Joefeez and some of the points he makes, but a few simple mods would be very acceptable. In particular I find the graphics of the Civ IV version to be on the whole unnecessary both in scale and detail and counter-productive in terms of game strategy.

[dalgo]

Originally Posted by wakening

One is the inability to close colonies which have become redundant or are unwanted if the population is 3 or more. Silly this, especially when capturing a foreign power's colony, badly located, badly managed, which has suddenly developed extra population and a wall while being attacked.

I played the original Colonization extensively and I also found this to be very annoying. It is even worse in the Civ4 version because you cannot disband any colony, thus eliminating the neat trick of having your scout form a temporary 1-man coastal colony just to export the treasure he has discovered.

In the original game you could freely disband a captured colony regardless of size if it did not have a stockade. However if you had de La Salle in Congress you had to proceed carefully. As I recall, it was the addition of a colonist to your new colony that triggered the automatic creation of a stockade. So if you remove colonists first until there are two or less then you won't end up with that inconvenient stockade.

However if your captured colony already has a stockade or fort then there is no way of disbanding it yourself, - but you can get someone else to do it for you. The method I used was as follows:

I would take all valuables from the colony (including the food) then reduce the colony to the three least useful colonists and make them all statesmen. They will starve down to one over the next two turns. Then I attack the nearest indian village and leave. Sooner or later some angry indians will turn up and attack the colony, burning it to the ground. Their honour satisfied the indians then resume cordial relations.

I agree however it would be much better to have a mod that did this for you, unfortunately I don't know of any mods for this version.

[wakening]

Thanks Dalgo. Sorry to be so long coming back!!

The get-the-indians-to-do-the-dirty-work option for closing is good, though a bit tricky when a colony is already producing food for 3 people, but it seems to be the only option.

I have become aware that there are things that can be changed. I see somewhere that, for instance, the number of hammers required for a particular piece of building work can be adjusted. Which files in the game are susceptible to changes of this sort (apart from changing colony and indian names)?

Would a canal building option for pioneers be difficult - or is there no one around now to take up these things?

Does anyone know what the latest available PC version of the original game might be? I have downloaded Freecol to try but have not gone far with it yet.

Any info gratefully received - I am obviously not too technically competent with computer programming.

[dalgo]

The last patch for Colonization was version 3.0. I doubt there is anyone round now to make changes to the original game.

As far as I know you can only make a 1-tile canal by placing a colony on a narrow spot between two bays etc. A native village can serve as well.

This can be handy at times to cut down the length of a sea voyage (have a man hop out, create the colony, pass the ship through then disband the colony). This can actually be extended to more than one tile, although not as a permanent canal. The way to do this is to disband the colony with the ship in it, leaving it stranded on land. Then create a new colony next to the ship and the ship can move into it. Rinse and repeat until you get to the other side.

A corollary of this is to move a galleon inland to the future site of a new colony where it can serve as a massive warehouse for that colony. You have to move the ship first before you create that final colony.

All the above is strictly from memory so may or may not work

[wakening]

Great Dalgo. Just like the old time pioneers ... lugging my boat overland. It does not allow the vessel to sail on an inland lake, but I can have fun with that idea.

I wonder if it would be possible to adapt the canal scripting from Civ4/Col ... .. pity I am so ignorant on scripting.

Thanks however for your help.

[Tristan_C]

Originally Posted by wakening

Does anyone know what the latest available PC version of the original game might be? I have downloaded Freecol to try but have not gone far with it yet.

Abandonia has a copy of PC version 2.25. I do not know anything about a version 3.

[dalgo]

v3.0 is the final patch for Colonization and includes the map editor, so you can create your own maps. It is available at various places on the web including here:

http://www.colonizationfans.com/Downloads.html


Edit: v3.0 is for DOS, the Windows patch is v3.1

[HiDeWaY]

I'm actually planning creating a Colonization-alike game for Android, but if it goes well one might as well as release it to iOS, PC, Mac, etc.

The game is to be pixelized like the original Colonization game but with both more history background and more strategies and possibilities.

For example, I'm planning on both introducing the (black) Slave and actually transforming Indentured Servants into what they really were.

An indentured Servant was someone that was either in debt or that offered himself (or herself) for work for a number of years (often 10) in exchange for the travel costs to the new world or to pay up any pending debt. The indentured servant was only so for a number of years and would eventually turn into a regular colonist. They were however treated pretty much like slaves during the period they were forced to work for their masters. There were in fact many black indentured servants that came from Europe that were eventually freed when their time was up.

It is interesting to read about how blacks (both free and indentured) were eventually forced down the line to becoming slaves again. Laws forbidding blacks from certain counties or from owning land or property forced them to indentured servitude or slavery, by either economical or phony lawsuits, which for the most part didn't fare well for blacks, no matter how illogical some accusations were (like a black woman accused and condemned of fornication without either the court nor the accusers even needing to investigate or name the partner).

Other laws included the status of the child of a women being determined upon birth. This meant if the woman was a slave, the child would be a slave. This meant many times that the white owners benefited from raping them to have more children, ie: workforce and merchandise they could later sell.

In the beginning, although there weren't even legislation regarding what a Slave was, and what rights these had, the blacks could actually negotiate more rights and privileges (some of them even sued whites for unpaid wages - yes, they earned wages at first). It is staggering to watch, from 1619 the year the black slaves first arrived in the new world, to 1700, how much both society and slavery changed.

And then we have the indians. Just how lame are the indians in the original Colonization?! The indians were no easy pray, you don't destroy an indian nation with 3 or 4 dragoons units. The indians, although they lost around 90% of their population near English territory around 1619, they still went for pretty much 100 years of raids, war, burned British forts and played a major role in defeating the French (helping the British).

In the very first years, the europeans were so dimwit that many europeans had to literally enslave themselves to the Indians in trade for food, otherwise many would have starved. In fact, one of the main concerns of European rulers were the large amount of colonists who feed the colonies and joined the indians and the indian's lifestyle. They literally had to place guards at their gates and restrict passage to prevent it becoming an even bigger problem.

The indians usually played European powers against one another and had huge and lengthy wars (often with their traditional rivals) to secure profitable trade routes like the Fur route (euopeans bought a lot of american fur, making it very profitable for both the colonists and the indians). The indians were not a bunch of dimwits, hippy treehuggers, if you think so then you have watched too much Pocahontas. They were savy, strategic and schemmy. And if it wasn't for the smallpox and other diseases that eradicated over 90% of them, history would have been so much different.

Indians with a war tomahawk were told to rival expert european fencers. They were great with bow and arrows and all males were trained soldiers with a ton of experience gained from constant warfare with other tribes. They didn't fear death and they actively seeked kills and warspoils for their own prestige inside their tribe.

Ever wondered why there are almost no native americans in america but plenty of blacks and chinese in Africa and China respectively? Both of those areas were also very underdeveloped. It was not because the europeans were so much better than the Indians (they were technological, but not sufficiently, a musket might be better than an arrow, but is it much better than two? five? ten? Colonists weren't exactly packing automatic rifles and firing 600 bullets a minute), they just died a lot from diseases (many speculate europeans to have made intentionally biological warfare).

In original Colonization they are treated as a number of dimwits who will thanks you for destroying their capital and don't serve for much more than treasures (galleons of gold out a stone age tribe, really?) converting them into slaves (ever wondered why the europeans had to bring slaves from Africa instead of just enslaving indians?) and trading stuff with them.

Wow, I rambled again. Sorry.

Point is, both indians and the history deserve their stories a bit better told, which is one of the ideas behind my version of the game.

Also, rivers! Europeans traveled their ships through rivers all the time, it even played a major role in major battles during the american independence war. Along with artillery placements. Soldiers should indeed die (like someone told early in this thread, probably around 2002 lol).

There are plenty of stuff I still need to figure out. But if you guys have some input it would be awesome.

Thinking in naming the game "America" or something.

[Omega124]

If you do this, my biggest suggestion is more European nations. At least Portugal and Sweden, and perhaps even a couple more.