CFC TG1: Calling All Settler, Chieftain, and Warlord Players

My take:

Not a bad start. All the desert is either flood plains or hills. Plus we're guaranteed at least one coastal city with some production for naval units. I like Animal Husbandry first to find horses. Then research to Calendar for resource development.

I have taken to doing Warrior build first for a second explorer. I have not been impressed with scouts vs. barbs. There is a possibility that my scouting stops too often for taking out encampments, but that is a discussion for later turns. I think the explorer first is better than worker first, but that is because I think that most improvements are less critical/effective than ruins and camps until you get Calendar.

My understanding is that we are looking for a domination, but we can see more map before we really decide. A lot of the first turns will be essentially similar to getting ourselves started.

So, to summarize. Settle here. Build explorer. Research AH. Go look for interesting things to find and/or kill.

Centerfinger said:

I usually plop the settler down immediately, <snip>
I think I would settle on the wheat tile or the tile next to the incense to gain the production value of the surrounding hills.

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I admit, I'm also one who typically settles the starting spot, so I'm not the best to discuss this, but settling on the wheat isn't very optimal. With a farm and Civil Service this tile will produce +4 , whereas if we settle on the wheat, it'll only produce two. As to your other suggestions, I'm not really sure without being able to see what would be within our borders. Hence why I tend to just settle the starting location.

Aldor said:

I think its always a good idea to research animal hubandry first...for showing horses on the map so you can plan ahead, and as its a pre-requisite to horseback riding. Next tech should be pottery however, so we can have fishing and calendar once the worker is ready.

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shanodin said:

when possible in order to get in contact with city states and other civs asap. In this situation I'd probably hit pottery first

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Centerfinger said:

I vote for Pottery 1st as well

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Krystalshield said:

lurker's comment: Both of the happiness resources are calendar based, which makes the early tech path simpler. If you want horsies early (which your post mentions you do), then animal husbandry is probably the first stop followed by pottery and then calendar. I suspect this is one of the choices that I am making wrong. Bee-lining to horseback riding may be a better tactic and then coming back for pottery and calendar.

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eris said:

I like Animal Husbandry first to find horses. Then research to Calendar for resource development.

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While I agree with all of you that Calendar is important and needed, the question arises as to when its needed. I believe we start out with 6 . While that's not much starting out, its good to consider how long it'll take for it to reach zero. If we do as has been suggested, then we'd be able to improve our first lux resource long before our happiness is to the point of needing it. I agree that we will need Calendar soon, I just disagree on prioritizing it that early.

I liked Krystalshield's statement:

Krystalshield said:

Bee-lining to horseback riding may be a better tactic and then coming back for pottery and calendar.

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This is what I would do. More then likely if we do this route, we'll be just completing our first lux resource around the time we're attacking one of our neighbors, which is when we'll need it due to the of puppeting someone else's capital.

I'm like the rest of you in that I typically start with building a scout. I prefer scouts due to their terrain ability. One thing I prefer to do early in the game is clear the map around me and figure out who my neighbors are and what kind of land they have. Of course we can't forget the goody huts either.

My build queue is typically Scout -> Worker -> Settler, though its subject to change based on the game. If there is enough time between the completion of the settler and getting horses connected then I'll build a chariot archer. Note, I typically plant that settler next to horses, within my borders.

For my first war I don't build warriors. The reason is their so weak compared to the horsemen and they're very slow. Since I tend to send my initial warrior to the battle, I do often build a warrior after my attack force is built, so that he can protect my two cities. BTW my attack force typically consists of one warrior, two or three horsemen, and either an archer or a chariot archer. The warrior is used to deal with any units of the civ I'm invading, while the horses and archer attack the cities. TBH I'm not very fond of chariot archers, since they're so weak. I've found if one is within range of an enemy unit, then its basically dead.

In summary, the plan I would use is beeline to Horseback Riding, while building a Scout, Worker, and Settler. The warrior explores the surrounding area, but heads back to the capital once the Scout heads out. I locate my neighbors and determine which one I intend to attack. The settler I try to complete around the time HBR is completing, so that I can quickly settle near a horse and once its improved I immediately begin building my small invasion force.

Note, the AI starting out is very weak and practically defenseless, hence why such a small force can easily wipe out a nation.

Now, having said that, what do you guys think? Is this something you're willing to try? We would very quickly jump up to four, possibly five cities and have several good resources. Well, two cities and two or three puppet cities. After that point, then we'd decide on whether to attack another civ, or work on infrastructure/expansion.

Disclaimer: If it sounds like I'm insulting you by quoting you and then implying your wrong, I apologize. That's not my intent. My goal is for all of us to learn and that includes me. So if I do offend you in some way then I apologize. Feel free to PM me if you have a problem with something I said. This isn't for just this post, but all future posts. If I recall correctly, in the training game I was in, I often felt like I was being called dumb, hence this disclaimer.

The strategy sounds ok, IF we find another civ within say, 10 turns or so. Otherwise they're likely rather far from us, and we may reconsider our path.

One other suggestion: we could go scout - worker - monument - settler. The reason is that you get the early policies much quicker this way. And if we're looking at a conquest strategy, it may be worth it to get Honor and the next two policies right below it (the one that gives you a general, and the one that makes units adjacent to each other have a 15% combat bonus).

Of course again it depends on the overall situation. If we have a target close by, there may not be enough time to build a monument.

Well, now I've been able to take a look too. Seems a good enough place to start, always nice with a coastal capital. Scout-worker-settler is what I'd probably do too and beelining towards HR sounds like a good plan. I'm always terrible at exploiting horses in early game, so it'll be interesting to see what happens when you do.

Oh, and I can't wait to get this rolling!

I also usually stick my first settler down where he starts off. Kind of risky to move him around

I think a problem I have is that I focus too much on buildings initially, after my first scout and worker. I like to put a monument and a library and sometimes a granary in my capital. Guess this is part of my problem.

shanodin said:

I think a problem I have is that I focus too much on buildings initially, after my first scout and worker. I like to put a monument and a library and sometimes a granary in my capital. Guess this is part of my problem.

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Think that's true for me too. Probably partly because for a long time I only played on Chieftain and had ample time to do anything I wanted. Guess I haven't really adapted my gameplay enough since moving up in difficulty.

I can go along with beeline to Horseback as long as we backtrack somewhere for worker techs like Calendar. Busy workers are happy workers.

As for expansion. I don't know the difference between saving up and buying a settler and actually building one at this level. What are the trade offs there? Or could we plan on doing one of each? Build one settler, buy another.

I would suggest a Monument as an early build. This is only because this is Rome. The first building I put in any follow up city is a Monument to start culture growth. Given Rome's UA, a Monument in Rome would make the first build for all those new cities all that much quicker. That would be scout, worker, settler, monument, troops. Or it could be scout, worker, monument, settler, troops if we have enough money to buy a first settler.

How much do we have to worry about garrisoning our capitol? Are the other Civs likely to attack us on this level that early?

I still prefer warrior over scout for first explorer, but would be much more comfortable with Scout if we plan to open Honor with our first Social Policy so as to get the bonus against barbs.

Sorry, my DSL modem went out this morning and the serviceman just came and replaced it. Odd without internet all day.

eris said:

I can go along with beeline to Horseback as long as we backtrack somewhere for worker techs like Calendar. Busy workers are happy workers.

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With this strategy going back and grabbing Calendar will be a must, as we'll gain unhappiness from the cities we puppet.

As for expansion. I don't know the difference between saving up and buying a settler and actually building one at this level. What are the trade offs there? Or could we plan on doing one of each? Build one settler, buy another.

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Buying is an interesting strategy that I've found depends on the situation. I like to keep money in the treasury so if something comes up and I need to buy something quickly, then I'm able. As to which is better, again, its the situation.

This is only because this is Rome.

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I've never played Rome yet, so I'm looking forward to their UA. I'm a builder more then a warmonger, btw.

How much do we have to worry about garrisoning our capitol? Are the other Civs likely to attack us on this level that early?

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I tend not to garrison my cities, but I do keep at least one unit close by to help defend them. Either before our first invasion, or during the early stages of it, we should have a road between our two cities, making it much easier for that one unit to defend our cities from barbs.

My problem with a warrior first is it takes longer to build and it has a slower movement. Recall that with this strategy we want to not only locate our target early, but we also want someone who can stay in the area and keep track of our opponents activity.

Another reason I see no point in a second warrior this early, is that our opponent typically has a very small number of units. I find that warriors suck at attacking cities, so my single warrior deals with any units that our opponent sends while the horses take the city.

If everyone is okay with this, then I'll play my turnset tonight when I get home from work.

Go ahead

Lets Roll!

lurker's comment: Looks like a good start, a little more desert than necessary but you've got a great production base waiting to be exploited.

I agree with scout preference to early units. Maybe a single warrior to take out nearby barbarian camps and/or defend the eventual worker(s) from roaming barbs, but IMO scout first. I wouldn't worry about garrisoning the capital or any early cities until and unless you guys get involved in an early war with a nearby neighbor who's fielding a lot of mobile units.

Methos - I've never spectated before, so I'll try and refrain from too much "do this, do that" commentary, but if you have any other tips or if I'm talking to much, just let me know.

Have fun guys! Can't wait to see how this turns out.

go for it

Turn 0, 4000 BC: I settle on the starting location and begin work on a scout (due in 7). We start research on AH and our only citizen is working the fish for quick growth. I end up heading NE with our warrior due to my curiosity regarding the coast.

Turn 1, 3960 BC:

Turn 2, 3920 BC: We come across the borders of Tyre, though we technically haven't met them yet.

Turn 3, 3880 BC: We meet Tyre and they gift us 30 .



Turn 4, 3840 BC: We find our first natural wonder, the Barringer Crater.



Turn 5, 3800 BC: We grow to size 2 and now are working the fish and wheat.

Turn 6, 3760 BC: Scout completed and we begin work on a Worker. One thing of note, Civ V doesn't have overflow, so any extra production and beakers are lost. We only needed four to complete the scout, but we had five, so we lost one . Our warrior is getting a bit far north for my liking, but I just spotted some ruins, so I'll move a little bit farther before heading back. The scout headed southwest down to the coast, but he'll do a bit of a circle before getting too far.

Turn 7, 3720 BC: Our warrior pops the ruins for a map of the area, which shows that we are at the far north of the map.

Turn 8, 3680 BC: Our scout spotted Mt. Fuji for another +1 bonus.

Turn 9, 3640 BC: We learn Animal Husbandry and start on The Wheel.

Turn 10, 3600 BC: Our warrior starts heading back south (though still west some), as I'd like to keep him somewhat close to home. Heck, I'd probably go ahead and bring him back home, but that's up to Centerfinger to decide. Our scout is next to a ruins, so next turn hopefully Centerfinger will get lucky and gain something good.



I'd probably have the warrior go another turn or two to the west/southwest, before heading back to Rome, but I like to keep at least one warrior close to our city, just in case.





I'm curious if Rio De Janerio is sitting on a pennisula, or if there's more land on past it. There's four horses to our southwest that aren't too far away.

Sorry, I forgot to include when I met the other city states, so here's a screenshot of the current diplo situation.



Current Roster:

• Methos - Just Played
• Centerfinger - Up!
• Aldor - On Deck
• Sindri Pink
• shanodin
• eris

Here's the 3600 BC save, though before Centerfinger plays his turnset, I'd like to discuss the game first. Everyone is welcome to download the save and take a look, just don't make press 'Next Turn'.

Good so far:
- we see horses. We need to scout the area around them to find the best spot to settle (if we decide to go there with our first settler).
- the spot to the north/north west of Rome will be great to build a monastery in, for a lot of culture (and Rome as well!)

Less good:
- we see only two luxury resources so far (wine and incense). Thats pretty harsh...the city states have other luxuries, but we'll have to ally with them or conquer them to get those. Is Sidon hostile just as Tyre? Might be worth it to conquer both then instead of paying...we need to be careful tho that we dont get permanent war status with all city states.

One question: did you get 30g from all three city states? If you got 15g only from one, its a good indicator that another civ is near there and met them before you.

Methos said:

Turn 6, 3760 BC: Scout completed and we begin work on a Worker. One thing of note, Civ V doesn't have overflow, so any extra production and beakers are lost.

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lurker's comment:
Actually, production does overflow. It just doesn't show you in any way at all. On turn 8, you would see that the previous turn produced 1 more hammer then it should have.
Research on the other hand, really doesn't overflow

Looks like an interesting start

I'm liking that we have a solid 4 horses spot should come in handy for this plan! Lots and lots of nearby wine which we can trade for other luxuries or gold with the civs we aren't gonna go to war with yet.

If we can settle to the North West of rome quickly enough, there's Ivory, but there is a chance that Sidon will grab that hex before we can.

Lurker comment:

Aldor said:

Is Sidon hostile just as Tyre? Might be worth it to conquer both then instead of paying...

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Actually, Hostile city-states are better to keep, if you want to conquer some others. Influence with hostile city-states keeps decreasing at 1 per turn, while with non-hostile it starts decreasing faster (1.34 after declaring war at 3 city-states, I believe).

eris said:

As for expansion. I don't know the difference between saving up and buying a settler and actually building one at this level. What are the trade offs there? Or could we plan on doing one of each? Build one settler, buy another.

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lurker's comment:
I avoid buying settlers early on. If you want to buy an earlier unit, buying a worker is more cost effective. (A worker costs 4 gold per resource, but a settler costs 4.51).

I think were going to lose the fur and the ivory to the City states, so that leaves the excess wine for us later.

There is not going to be a whole lot of action this turn, but taking the warrior west a couple more spots before heading back near rome is a good idea. Take the ruins, check out Rio's land a bit before heading back to the west is probably the route I'd go as well.

There may be more resources west of the horses, maybe we'll get lucky.

Centerfinger said:

the ruins, check out Rio's land a bit before heading back to the west is probably the route I'd go as well.

There may be more resources west of the horses, maybe we'll get lucky.

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Just my opinion, but I'd probably continue west and some north first, before checking out Rio. This reason is we're looking for an opponent for an early invasion, so checking out the land that's immediately west of us would probably be better then checking out Rio first. With any luck, our warrior will cross paths with someone in the next turn or so, but not expecting it. I'm just wondering if there's an AI civ on that river near the warrior.

@Tarkeel: Thanks! I didn't check the next turn, but only the turn I selected our next build, so wrongly assumed it was similar to .

Aldor said:

Good so far:
- we see horses. We need to scout the area around them to find the best spot to settle (if we decide to go there with our first settler).

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Agree. Since that's currently the closest horse location, then checking that area is a definite. The scout is close by too.

- the spot to the north/north west of Rome will be great to build a monastery in, for a lot of culture (and Rome as well!)

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Not just that, but with that one spot we've got three wine resources we can sell.