C2C - Religions discussions and ideas

@Hydro, here is an image I need converted into a button. It will probably be the last one since I can't get much further in the game. Thanks.

As of now Zoroastrianism isn't underpowered, it has 4 good wonders and shrine with +10% to science. There are several other religions which could be considered underpowered. Also, my concern about Ishtar gate isn't about power, it's about feeling being in ancient world slowly discovering neighbours, map and such. And all of a sudden in classical era you get contact with civs from other continents and even distant islands ... Maybe it's okay on a small maps or in a fantasy world but for me it takes away that civ gaming feeling. Besides, Ishtar gate gives espionage bonuses to all buildings.

Anyhow, i think it would feel right if it would only unlock civs that already have been contacted by ones you have contact with.

Turns out we aren't using AAranda's version of Ishtar Gate but Teentom1's, so I am not so concerned about changing it. I will be moving it to the Glass tech with a number of Glass Works (3 or 5) as a requirement. This should put it being built at about the time Optics becomes available. Which is when you can go out and explore the world anyway.
 
@Hydro, here is an image I need converted into a button. It will probably be the last one since I can't get much further in the game. Thanks.



Turns out we aren't using AAranda's version of Ishtar Gate but Teentom1's, so I am not so concerned about changing it. I will be moving it to the Glass tech with a number of Glass Works (3 or 5) as a requirement. This should put it being built at about the time Optics becomes available. Which is when you can go out and explore the world anyway.

Send me a copy of your current game, maybe i can get it to do something extra.
 
I can usually get up to Bahai which is about another half day away. All I am checking is that the tech tree icons look right when a religion hasn't been founded.

OH, ok i thought you just wanted to get further in the game is all, no biggy.:p
 
The Only thing that I feel needs done to Religions and their founding is to better separate them in the Tech tree paths. Too many are still lined up in the same patterns/paths. The only real improvement was the Poly Mono change. And It, imho, was a resounding success.

I just have not had the time lately to give some suggestions as to tech path changes. I have a few days off the 20th and 21st maybe I can do something then to present.

Otherwise, I hope we leave religions alone. They work just fine as they are.

JosEPh :)
 
The Only thing that I feel needs done to Religions and their founding is to better separate them in the Tech tree paths. Too many are still lined up in the same patterns/paths. The only real improvement was the Poly Mono change. And It, imho, was a resounding success.

I just have not had the time lately to give some suggestions as to tech path changes. I have a few days off the 20th and 21st maybe I can do something then to present.

Otherwise, I hope we leave religions alone. They work just fine as they are.

JosEPh :)

Most (99.9%) of the stuff I am doing is fixing the buttons. For example the Sikh and Jain missionaries had the same button.
 
I just saw this thread browsing around. That yoruba symbol I made originally for my Rapture stuff. Anyway a lot of Araanda's stuff he got from me. I am not trying to talk bad about some models, but there is a lot of stuff organized in nice folders under Rapture that could be used. Here is some screenshots on this thread.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8206374&postcount=34

I do not believe we are having big issues running civ4 with the models. A lot of those buttons are in there anyway, and probably a lot better ones.
 
I just saw this thread browsing around. That yoruba symbol I made originally for my Rapture stuff. Anyway a lot of Araanda's stuff he got from me. I am not trying to talk bad about some models, but there is a lot of stuff organized in nice folders under Rapture that could be used. Here is some screenshots on this thread.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8206374&postcount=34

I do not believe we are having big issues running civ4 with the models. A lot of those buttons are in there anyway, and probably a lot better ones.

I did get the Sikh, Jain and at least part of the Bahai models from Rapture or JARM. Shinto I got from AAranda and the Shinto mod and Mormon I think I made using bits from all over.

I only look at changing stuff when people complain. ;) I have added SaibotLieh's female missionaries and updated the Shaman male missionary to The_Capo's version.
 
OK in my last five games now i have played, the AI is BEELINING to each and every religion it can get its hands on as FAST as they can, ignoring everything else in it path(s), so to all the regular modders, how do "we" solve this HUGE problem (as i see it, that is)????
 
From a Non Modder's view point:

Isn't that what players do for the most part?

What's wrong with the AI doing it, especially if ALL are doing it?

What's fair for the player should be fair for AI.

Ps, Maybe it's your playstyle?

JosEPh
 
OK in my last five games now i have played, the AI is BEELINING to each and every religion it can get its hands on as FAST as they can, ignoring everything else in it path(s), so to all the regular modders, how do "we" solve this HUGE problem (as i see it, that is)????

This is a radical idea but what if you did not have any tech found a religion? What if religions were made into random events? Not only would they not be clustered anymore but some religions may not even found at all in a particular game.

Requirements for each religious event could still be linked to discovered techs, such as you will never get a Hinduism event if you have not discovered Polytheism. What do you think?

EDIT: An alternative idea would be a tweaking to the Divine Prophets mod. Rather than getting a free Great Prophet at those techs you would have to use "naturally" generated prophets to found religions.
 
Isn't that what players do for the most part?

What's wrong with the AI doing it, especially if ALL are doing it?

What's fair for the player should be fair for AI.

Ps, Maybe it's your playstyle?

JosEPh

Yeah probably so, i never ever go for any religious stuff, i infact try to stay away from them, just my playing style, like you said i guess. But some like it that way.

This is a radical idea but what if you did not have any tech found a religion? What if religions were made into random events? Not only would they not be clustered anymore but some religions may not even found at all in a particular game.

Requirements for each religious event could still be linked to discovered techs, such as you will never get a Hinduism event if you have not discovered Polytheism. What do you think?

EDIT: An alternative idea would be a tweaking to the Divine Prophets mod. Rather than getting a free Great Prophet at those techs you would have to use "naturally" generated prophets to found religions.

Interesting ideas.
 
atm stacking religions in your capital is insanely strong. each monastery can easily yield 40 research/ turn in a good city. return on investment in turn 3 or 4. stacking 10 of them in your capital is too strong considering that most other +%-Buildings have been changed to fixed values.
 
I still have to stare at the civ stuff for some reason. I say that the Shinto mod for example just retextured the Confucian missionary unless I did not see the update. Not hard since it been years since I had civ installed....:lol:

At least I think this probably looks better.


As for looking for alternatives for founding religions...I guess you know my crazy Rapture idea at the beginning. Each culture begins with a religion that does not have anything to build like a regular religion, but later can build a wonder and found a religion from building it. Anyway if you just wanted to hear an alternate idea. That part is already working in the Rapture stuff. Now how and where in the dll? I don't remember.
 
I still have to stare at the civ stuff for some reason. I say that the Shinto mod for example just retextured the Confucian missionary unless I did not see the update. Not hard since it been years since I had civ installed....:lol:

At least I think this probably looks better.


As for looking for alternatives for founding religions...I guess you know my crazy Rapture idea at the beginning. Each culture begins with a religion that does not have anything to build like a regular religion, but later can build a wonder and found a religion from building it. Anyway if you just wanted to hear an alternate idea. That part is already working in the Rapture stuff. Now how and where in the dll? I don't remember.

It is only recently that I have been getting an understanding of what can be done with the units. Your Egyptian missionaries are better IMO as well but when I first looked I thought the effects were part of the unit. Now I know better. ;)
 
Ok here are some radical ideas about religion. Just brainstorming here.

1. Maybe civs can have only x religions at a time? If you would found another one above that, you have to discard one the old ones, destroying all buildings associating to it in the process?

2. Maybe early religions could obsolete at certain techs?

3. Maybe religions comes with penalties, so you don't want to found too may of them?

4. Maybe religious buildings only give certain bonuses if they are the associated to the stat religion, like Christian monasteries only giving +10% research if you have Christianity as a state religion?

5. Maybe religions can only be spread in x cities? Or, maybe you have Religious points, tied to tech/civics/buildings, and every religion and religious building in a city counts towards those points, and once you reach it, you cannot build more religious buildings/spread religions until your count increases?

There are endless possibilities here, people.
 
I am not trying to sell my mod, but there is some tags for grouping religions in the xml. So if you wanted to say have multiple polytheistic religions you could group into one category (polytheism for example) then the prophets can found a specific polytheistic religion if you point the xml the right way.

The schisms mechanism is what I am referring to but that can be customized to your liking. If you want to have multiple versions of the same faith in denominations it is possible as well, but I think it needs something to remove religions more than anything.

Well anyway I am not saying use everything I have, but you could get some stuff to really tweak different methods of founding religions when in combination with other mods.
 
I did try and obsolete religions but there were many howls of protest. ;)

My copy of your Rapture mod doesn't have a Shinto missionary in it. As far as I know I have the latest copy.
 
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